trying to cram in as many countries as possible with an interrail card

so i got the 'europe on a shoestring' guide for my birthday and i've finally finished reading it.

my boyfriend and i are planning a trip round europe using the interrail month pass in june and the amount of pages i've folded over in this guide is ridiculous.

is it possible to cover a mass amount of countries in a month taking into account the time it takes to travel?

my boyfriend's set on starting out in rome as it's most expensive but after that there's countries more to the east - berlin, antwerp, amsterdam, prague and somewhere in switzerland for definite i reckon but then i really want to visit scandanavia which is so incredibly far away.

there's also the roskilde festival at the end of june in denmark which would finish our month long trip off nicely, but it's finding a route to cover west europe then get round to finland, sweden and norway before ending in denmark so we don't cover it twice. but i don't think it's possible as russia's inconvieniently in the way.

so the questions...:

1) would it actually be worthwhile starting in rome or going there after germany etc or perhaps even just leaving it out altogether...?
2) is there anything actually that special in slovakia, slovenia, latvia, belarus, hungary and serbia and the likes around there that should be included in our itinerary?
3) has anyone travelled this extensively on the interrail pass round europe before and have any tips for us?
4) are the night trains and supplements cheaper than trying to find a cheap hostel? or would it be worthwhile to take a tent [especially if we go to the festival] as there's some cheap camping sites in the guide
5) is flying, ferry or eurotunnel better in terms of cheapness, time, hassle etc...

thanks!!!!

One of the problems with reading something like europe on a shoestring is you tend to want to go everywhere in it afterwards!

It is possible to cover a lot of countries in a month, the question is whether you want to spend most of your month running around from hostel to train station and back so you can get to the next place, or if you want to spend your time visiting the places you do go. Luckily for you, you live in the UK, so it's not as if Europe is hard to get to for you to go again.

Your destinations are really, really scattered - it's an enormously long way from antwerp to latvia, and there's a lot in between. You've only got a month, so concentrate more closely on one area or line - visit Italy, Switzerland, Germany and Denmark for example. Maybe throw in Austria and/or Hungary. that's more than enough for one month. You'll find you enjoy yourself a lot more than desparately racing around trying to get to every possible country. Save the rest for another time.

your questions though:
1. rome is as good a starting point as any, it depends where you want to end up and where you want to pass through to get there. whether to leave it out depends on whether you/your boyfriend really want to go there.
2. Yes, of course there is, but it depends what you're actually interested in. You might be a world war II history buff who would love to see the monument in Brest, or that might bore you stupid for example. You might want to get out a do a bit of hiking in the alps, so slovenia could be an option, or water sports on lake balaton... or you might prefer the nightlife in the big cities.
3. Yes, travel less - see more. there's little more boring than the inside of a train, except possibly the inside of a train station while on holiday.
4. generally speaking, yes, plus you get where you're going without wasting a day on train (see above!). I've not been to Roskilde but I'd guess a tent is the simplest form of accommodation, however you'd have to carry it for the rest of the trip as well, which doesn't make it super convenient for you.
5. depends where you want to go. If you're starting in Rome, it's much faster to fly. Since you'll have the interrail pass, it's cheaper, but slower to catch the train or a ferry, but again that depends on whether you think spending a day or two on the train to get to Rome is worth it. I'd say it probably isn't, especially if you're interrailing around for the rest of the month.

thanks a lot that's really helpful.

it is worth deciding between us whether we want sights, nightlife or adventure stuff and whether some countries offer more than others and also whether we can hack travelling a bit more to see other places.

thanks for your help.

It's well worth deciding what you want to see/do first - even just the things you like doing at home - then have a think about where you might like to do it, definately. Obviously in a month, you've got the time to do some outdoor stuff out in mountains, lake districts etc as well as have a week or two partying yourself insensible if that's your thing. Just try to work it out so the places fit together logically - get yourself a big fold out map and look at the distances between places.

yeah i'm trying to find a massive up to date map at the moment and i will be checking train timetables closer to the time we want to go so we can make a proper itinterary.

the reason i was asking about the balkans and scandanavia is because i wanted to check that the culture is completely different to what it's like in england. i know it will be to an extent but the further removed it is, the better then we'll have the contrast of western europe [nightlife and all that] with the scenic, historic parts of eastern europe. but it's still choosing...

so to the giant map it is!

Here's a good site for figuring train travel all over Europe: D Bahn. It looks like it is just for Germany, but it covers all of Europe.

I agree that you should narrow your focus. Decide which places are the most important to you and start prioritizing. Don't forget to figure in one day of travel between locations. Even if it is only 4 hours on the train, it is a whole day of travel from door to door.

Don't bother with a tent or sleeping bags. Travel light. Sleep in hostels. Take a sheet bag if you want or a very light sleeping bag. If you take a tent just for one stop at a festival (which you may or may not get to) it will be a lot of time that you have to carry it. Personally, I don't use campgrounds when traveling on trains and visiting cities in Europe. Others do and like it, but it is not for me. The campgrounds are usually way outside the cities centers and you spend all your time and money getting into the places you want to visit. Also, the last bus or train back to your camp leaves early, just as the nightlife is strarting to come alive. When it rains, it is a real pain.

I once met two American girls in the train station in Madrid who were doing nothing but traveling from one major city train station to another, sleeping on the trains, and catching the next train out. They were just checking off cities. They saw nothing of the places they "visited." When I met them they'd just arrived from Rome and were waiting for the train to Paris. Stupidest thing I'd ever heard of. That was an extreme case, but don't be like them.

I agree with the above. Assume you'll be able to travel Europe again sometime in your life, so you don't feel obliged to fit everything in. Pick your top two or three countries, and try to focus on those countries, and maybe the countries surrounding those. Two months is a lot of time, but it will fly by. You'll want to stop and smell the roses along the way -- maybe lounge on a beach, or just walk around town aimlessly. Slowing down your travels allows you to do this.

Another thing you may want to consider is just winging it along the way, and not making all your reservations in advance. In this way, you can slow down or speed up your travels as you see fit. Book a day or two in advance while you're on the road, using a site like www.hostelworld.com. June will be busy, but isn't quite yet peak season, so you'll usually be fine, even if you just show up in a town without reservations.

Dave

I can understand all the wishes about seeing everythinG ON a single trip (have you never been outside UK before?). BUT: First of all - do not count countries - they are not interesting as such and not as different as you imagine (and they do not even stamp your passports) - count places and regions (and try to see other things than capitals and big cities - UK is more than London - and the same is true for the rest of Europe).

Next general comment: You are young and from the UK ? You will have vacation a few times every year the rest of your life! You do not have to travel extensively in order yo reach any point in Europe - you will have plenty of oportunities to see all of Europe during the rest of your life, without spending more than anyone else in your county spends on their holidays. You can even easily visit all major towns in Europe one by one on (relatively) cheap extended weekends.

Why not chose Scandinavia ONLY (take the ferry directly there - or fly and buy a Scanrail pass) - if you are going to use one of your precious holiday weeks in Roskilde - thene there is much more to see than you possiblycan in the remaining 3 weeks if you visit more than the 3 capitals - OR Netherlands and a bit of Germany OR a bit of Germany and Czeck OR Germany-Switzerland OR .... and then you have your plans for the next few years!

AND then get a guide for the regions visiting in addition to the "shoestring guide" that is so "thin" on each place.

i see what everyone is saying and i'm thankful for all the advice, but my boyfriend and I are both students, no way can i afford to go away all the time both in terms of funds and actual time [maybe in a few years when i've finished uni but i study fashion and that doesn't really leave much time] - and i want to see lots of things now! i'm not bothered about checking off every city, in fact i've been reading up on smaller areas so that perhaps if we do focus on fewer countries, we can visit cities and the smaller villages. i am rather organised, but my boyfriend isn't so the advice people are giving me will hopefully make him be a bit more decisive! thanks to badger for the d bahn link, i'm having a look at that now and the tent idea is dissipating [even though we found some handy little compact ones, i did realise that the campsites are a bit further out]

thanks again!

i see what everyone is saying and i'm thankful for all the advice, but my boyfriend and I are both students, no way can i afford to go away all the time both in terms of funds and actual time [maybe in a few years when i've finished uni but i study fashion and that doesn't really leave much time] - and i want to see lots of things now! i'm not bothered about checking off every city, in fact i've been reading up on smaller areas so that perhaps if we do focus on fewer countries, we can visit cities and the smaller villages. i am rather organised, but my boyfriend isn't so the advice people are giving me will hopefully make him be a bit more decisive! thanks to badger for the d bahn link, i'm having a look at that now and the tent idea is dissipating [even though we found some handy little compact ones, i did realise that the campsites are a bit further out]

thanks again!

"i want to see lots of things now!"

How to get the message across? Stezbot, the point people are trying to make is that you WON'T see lots of anything!

The two commonest mistakes that first time travellers make is trying to cover too much ground in too little time and packing too much stuff. People are advising you that this is the case and you are ignoring the advice of EXPERIENCED travellers! Why bother posting at all if you aren't open to listening?

You see MORE by going slowly over short distances than you can by rushing around all over the place. Here are two rules of thumb that will serve you well if you listen.

1. Use the rule of 3's for packing. Three tops, three shorts, 3 underwear sets, 3 pr. shoes, etc. Things like a rain jacket, little black dress, etc. obviously only 1 is required.

2. Us the rule of 3's for stays. NEVER stay in a place for less than 3 days unless it is just an overnight stop enroute to somewhere. Staying less than 3 days (4 nights) does not allow enough time to see enough of anything. Also, remember that every time you move even if it is only a 4 hour journey away, you effectively use up a full day moving. Use this rule to figure out how many places you can actually expect to visit in just 30 days. With travel days, it is less than 10 places. It doesn't matter whether it is a city or a region, less than 10 per month. What does that do to your plans?

If you persist in wanting to rush around everywhere using a rail pass to the maximum, all you will do is learn a lot about trains.

i am actually open to listening. i have in fact done some. but going back to my original questions, i asked if there were anything in particular of interest in the balkans so that i wouldn't be travelling from western europe to eastern europe and i could just stick to one area then maybes pop over to denamrk for the festival. i am an organised person. this time last year i was in paris and managed very well to manouvre myself around. plus i'm a fashion student so i know practicality - i'm not gonna pack loads, i learnt from the first ever festival i went to not to pack loads. i asked the camping question in order to save myself hassle looking into hostels and not camping [and vice versa for not camping]. i was given a train timetable link which i've looked at and i will be making a proper itinerary and i know where i need to spend longer in because i know there's more i can do there. which brings me back to saying that my original questions were to do with what there is of interest in other countries so i can definetly rule them out [or not] so i don't get myself in a twist. thanks to the people who have helped or tried to help, and sorry to those who think i've been wasting their time by apparently not listening, i'll make an ear emoticon so that you know next time.

oh and the best way to learn is to just do something. so if something happens not to plan while in europe, then in the future when i'm an 'experienced' traveller i'll be able to help others whether they appear to be listening or not.

Move when and where the spirit moves you. Don't spread yourself too thin. Or put your self on a bogus schedule.

I never book ahead anymore. A result of mileage on me bp.

One thing bp'n has done for me= its made me a better listener.
We can't learn anything, when our mouth is running.

And ain't that really why we go?

Fit the train pass to the assumed trip. Not vice versa.
The point of all this is to, take time, enjoy, and have fun learning.

That takes time and lots of it.
BROCHURE GLEENING IS a waist of valuable time and far too much money.
Nobody will want to see you pix, let alone brochures to prove you went there.
Chill.
---------------------------------
It taKES HALF A DAY JUST FOR YOUR FREE BREAKFAST AND LOGISTICS.

This thread is a good example of why it's a bad idea for some people to buy a rail pass. If you want to see Europe through a dirty train window, do as you propose in your original post. If you want to make some contact with the places and the people who live there, heed the advice of those who are effectively telling you that less is more.

i asked if there were anything in particular of interest in the balkans so that i wouldn't be travelling from western europe to eastern europe

There are dozens of things of particular interest in the Balkans - I've been going back to that part of Europe for years and still haven't seen everything I want to see. What's more, you could probably fly to/from Greece or Croatia and spend a month travelling around the Balkans for far less than one of those horribly expensive interrail passes. Not that I'm saying that you should pick a region purely because of cost. But really, almost everywhere in Europe can be interesting depending on your tastes, so we can't tell you "stop worrying about X, Y, and Z because there's nothing there to see".

Apart from that, I think you've got the general idea of what people are saying so I won't repeat what everyone has said, except to say that I agree very much with Bjoern (#7) - you'll often get more variety by visiting two regions of the same country than by visiting two capital cities in different countries. And you are more likely to be able to visit the capitals some other time on weekend breaks on budget airlines.

So far as a map and rail travel in Europe is concerned the Thomas Cook rail map of Europe is great. It has enabled me to plan sensible, logical routes around most of Europe avoidind back-tracking and finding the most direct routes.

Yes: use your rail pass in whatever way gives you the most pleasure. It IS possible to cover a lot of ground, and get superficial impressions of lots of places. You will revisit some of those places later to get the in-depth experience.

Remember that trains in Eastern and Southern Europe are dirt-cheap anyway. It makes no sense buying an expensive rail pass and using it mainly for the Balkans: just buying tickets when you want to travel would cost much less.

i've looked into the thomas cook rail map and found some on amazon but will look closer to the time again incase there's a 2007-8 revised edition, but thanks for the tip.

we've decided to stick to western europe and scandanavia this time round as these are the places we're most interested in at the moment and like a few people have mentioned, it is cheaper further down so if we wanted a quick/cheap holiday then we can do that [especially with the ridiculously cheap flights at the moment]. these leaves us with less countries and with an added festival at the end in either belgium or denmark means that we have a couple extra days to look round that particular country.

we're also gonna stick to the spontaneous idea - make a basic route and place ideas, map out hostels etc but only book a few days ahead - this may cause hassle but at least we're not making decisions to early on to then need or want to change them, this of then also gives room if we find out about somewhere else on our travels.

thanks for everyone's help, even though some times it was rather pretentious...and hopefully this trip goes well!

rome is the most expensive? i didnt find rome THAT bad, paris is terrible, and london should be avoided like the plague if you are low on cash. i was so annoyed with the price of everything in london i couldnt even enjoy myself there.

would you be able to put the link on here for the timetables? i am thinking of interrailing around eastern europe in may and would like to get an idea of what i will be dealing with :)

and although reading the shoestring book has made you want to see more, just wait until you meet fellow travellers... it´s terrible! they talk about all the cool places they have been and the next thing you know there´s another 5 places you want to see on your list!

amsterdam can be enjoyed in a short amount of time, as can belgium.

i actually find london incredibly cheap. i live in england so it is meant to be expensive but for a pound extra i can travel the whole of central london rather than to my local town and back. plus it's quicker. and it's a lot safer now. in terms of food, just go to a tesco. and art galleries/museums are free.

paris i did find expensive. but the hostel was pretty cheap (about 14 a night in january) and had all the necessary amenities.

so i guess it's where you go.

i'm only saying rome is expensive because of what i've read.

i've finally got my flights to amsterdam (£45 with insurance and that) for 2 people, so the trip is definetly going ahead! and i've found some more books in my uni library - i've just spent 3 hours reading up on train travel in europe. i said earlier on i'm organised. i've proved it i think.