Trip Report Beijing,Train to Lhasa,Tibet,Nepal

Enclosed is our trip report for Tibet,Beijing,Train to Lhasa and Nepal,
This trip was undertaken by my wife,daughter and myself.
Regards
Neil Locker

Trip Report – Beijing, train to Lhasa, Tibet, Nepal April 2011
Beijing 4 days
Impressions - having never been to China before, Beijing was less polluted during our 4 day stay than expected. It is quite a clean city with few internet cafes but many Wi fi areas. Having your own internet connecting device is handy. A real positive is the electric motorcycles that are everywhere and improve the air quality. There is little use of English in Beijing so all arrangements must be made with this in mind. Taxis are cheap in Beijing and most drivers (once they put the meters on) aren’t looking for tips. The electric buses and underground railway is an even cheaper way to get around. Like most big cities the food is expensive compared to many other parts of Asia.
Surprisingly most of the cars in Beijing are European and Japanese and are small to medium size. Most of the taxis are Korean(Hyundai).
Accommodation: We chose a hutong area(old style area) to stay and were very pleased with our choice as the surrounding atmosphere was excellent.
We highly recommend Beijing Downtown Backpackers www.backpackingchina.com downtown@backpackingchina.com This place was excellent as our room was spacious and clean and it had a nice reverse cycle air conditioner to keep the room warm. The place is very conveniently located to all facilities and has helpful staff. Janet and Gerry have excellent English and are very helpful.
They try to save you money all the time i.e use their special telephone cards to save you on local and overseas calls, give you cards with the names of places written in Chinese to give to taxi and bus drivers etc .The hotel has flasks with boiling water that you can add to your water bottles and save on the cost of buying drinking water. There is also free Wi fi.It has a good free breakfast.
Shopping
There are a huge variety of shops including very expensive high end stores.
We were after 3 warm jackets to take to Tibet.
If you are a very hardened bargainer than you can get some excellent deals. The Pearl Market and the Silk Markets are very “full on” and the sales people literally grab your sleeve and hassle you to buy their goods .We bought jackets at both the Pearl and Silk Markets but would recommend the Yaxiu Market for clothes and electronics. When bargaining offer 10% of the original price if you want the product. They “will fire” rehearsed lines at you like “you must be joking”, “you must be sick” etc. Don’t worry about this. If they get aggressive put it back on them and say “you are getting cranky(or upset)” and this seems to settle them. Then walk away. If they ask for your last price then come up to approximately 15%.Naturally keep your humour at all times and enjoy the bargaining. Using these methods we got 2 very nice Canadian Goose(fake but look good)jackets for 250 Yuan and a double layered Summit Series North Face Jacket for 200 Yuan. These jackets did the job nicely in Tibet and look and perform like the real thing.
The Yaxiu Market has all the range of jackets and clothes and the bargaining here is easier to achieve. The prices are also a bit better. This market has some great electronics including excellent quality fake i phones, i pads etc
Taxis –a very cheap way to get around. Just get your destination written down in Chinese and insist on the meter being put on. Many taxis don’t like to drive down hutongs as they are crowded and time consuming. If you hotel is in a hutong just point to the map and get them to drop you on the street at the entrance to your hutong
The Great Wall
Beijing Downtown Packpackers have some of the best Great Wall walks going. We went on the walk from TinShanLing to Si-ma-tai. This walk took approximately 3 hours and had lots of old sections, some renewed areas and some fantastic views. This was a demanding but very worthwhile walk .It took 3 hours to reach this section of the wall by minibus.
Train Beijing to Lhasa
This was a great experience not to be missed if you are a bit adventurous.
The train leaves from Beijing West Station(this is huge and an” eye opener” in itself). We were let on the train 40 minutes before departure.
We had 3 hard sleepers which have a slither of padding on them and bedding for your use. We suggest you get a soft sleeper if you can, which consists of 4 persons per compartment compared to 6 per compartment in the hard sleeper section. Also if you hate smoke then you can slide the doors shut in the soft sleeper section and keep the smoke out. People aren’t allowed to smoke in the carriages but do so at the end of the carriages and this can permeate throughout.
However if you have travelled on Indian trains before than you will find this train to be excellent and the hard sleeper may even appear to be luxurious. The conductor keeps cleaning the train up throughout your trip.
A feature of the train is that boiling water is available to use at the end of the carriage and thus you can fill up your water bottles and have free safe water. We also suggest that you take a couple of mugs with you for tea, coffee, instant noddles etc .You can buy soup mixtures at Beijing West station cheaply, but for special tea, coffee,3 in one etc we suggest you purchase these in Beijing or bring from home. There is also a special dining carriage which serves some good food, however ours got taken over by the 500 soldiers that were on the train.
Other features of the train include: there is enough room to store your backpack; there is a little table with a thermos to fill with hot water; there are some hooks near your bed;there is carpet on the floor;most of the toilets are squat but there is a western toilet at the back of the soft sleeper area; there are oxygen vents at the end of each bed which are helpful to offset altitude sickness; there are power points in the corridors of the hard sleepers and in the main section of the softsleepers; the soft sleepers have a TV screen;the lighting is fairly good; the dining cart is very comfortable and breakfast costs 20 Yuan and lunch for 3 was 127 yuan (a few dishes with rice)They also sell apples ,small tomatoes and food in trays.

During the second night of our trip approximately 40 workers from a workgroup were put on the train in the middle of the night and filled up some of the corridors.

The train left(Beijing) at 8.09 pm sharp and arrived 44 hours later at 4.00 pm(Lhasa)
The first day of the trip was not particularly interesting however the second day once we hit the Tibetan Plateau was fascinating and made the trip worthwhile.
Lhasa,Tibet to Nepal Border
Choosing a travel company.
To enter Tibet you need a permit, guide & driver.
We did a great deal of research to ensure that our trip was a success .We wanted a Tibetan Company so that our guide had a strong background in Buddhism and gave viewpoints from a Tibetan viewpoint. We also wanted all of our money to go to Tibetan hotels, restaurants, drivers etc.We also wanted a special guide that was easy going but highly organised.We also wanted a non smoker.We had heard of good companies that had ordinary guides so our choice of a guide was paramount.
Our final choice was a young but very experienced guide named Nga Wang.He is only 23 years old but has been guiding for 7 years and has been in charge of groups of up to 40 people. Nga Wang is really easy to get on with but at the same time is highly organised. We basically hate big organised type travel and were very happy with our choice. He provided us with great company, expert commentary, a very safe driver with an excellent Toyota 4 wheel drive, good hotels ,as well as a good choice of restaurants with economical and quality food .
We got our guide from China Mike(look up his website as it is fantastic).Mike Lin(China Mike) recommended Nga Wang to us and we were very grateful as we came across some ordinary guides on our tour. We don’t recommend big tour groups as people we spoke to from these groups complained about being stuck with people they didn’t like.
To contact our friend and guide email Nga Wang at ngawangtle@yahoo.com
Our trip consisted of 3 days in Lhasa, and 5 days travelling to the Nepal border(9 nights in total).
The Tibet trip was one of our best and most memorable trips ever. We visited and gained much insight into Buddhist culture via. visits to mind blowing palaces, stupas, monatries, temples etc. Our guide took us to all the significant places. The trip to Everest Base Camp was also a highlight with crystal clear views on the day. Our 4 wheel drive also took us to places that the bigger groups in Mini buses could not visit i.e from Everest to old Dingiri via a very rough road we encountered nomads,yaks,alpine and tundra landscapes,blue sheep,gibber desert landscapes,floodplanes etc.
The Friendship HWY
Construction of the 800 km road from Lhasa to the Nepal border started in 1989. The HWY covers a massive geographical area crossing many 5000 metre plus passes as well as numerous flood plains –an engineering nightmare! The Chinese have sunk huge amounts of money into the construction of this permanent road and the landslide and flood mitigation systems are a sight to be seen.
Shopping in Tibet
Care needs to be taken when shopping in Tibet as many of the goods come from Nepal and can be obtained in Nepal at a fraction of the price. In fact one of the wholesalers in Kathmandu who exports brass & bone jewellery,prayer wheels,curios etc. said that 80% of his trade goes to China and Tibet. Thus I suggest that people buy authentic Tibetan products where possible. In Barkhor Street, Lhasa sellers tend to start at 3 to 4 times their asking price so take care! A really good place to buy some authentic hand made jewellery at good fixed prices is the Lhasa Tsankhung Nunnery not far from Barkhor St. In fact one of our best experiences in Tibet was sitting down with the nuns whilst they chanted. The nuns are so friendly and this is an experience that not many tourists experience. There is also a nice big tea shop at the nunnery where many of the local Tibetans come to relax.
Altitude Sickness
It is quite common getting some altitude sickness in Lhasa and in fact my wife got some mild ,but disturbing symptons. She normally does not have altitude problems. Our guide got her some oxygen bottles and some Tibetan medicine that did the trick. Incidently you can buy oxygen in aerosol cans for 15 Yuan which make a big improvement in altitude sickness. The better agencies normally carry a few cans of this when going to Everest Base Camp.I bought a couple of extra cans for my wife to consume and she improved very quickly. Nepal is now getting some of these cans at 3 times the price.

Eating in Tibet
Our guide found us places that had quality food at reasonable prices all the way during our trip.Sounds like the restaurants have improved over the last few years.
Toilets in Tibet
We actually had Western toilets every morning and night in Tibet.Expect a squat toilet occasionally if you are female and have to go during the day.For males it is much easier.
Internet
The internet connections in both Lhasa and Shigatse were very good.
ATM’s and money
There were ATM in all the larger towns including Lhasa, Gyangtse, Shigatse and Zhangmu.
It is easy to get money changed in Zhangmu the night before you cross the border. However it is worth going via your guide as some tourists have reported being sold counterfeit notes.
Crossing the border
Our guide seemed to manoeuvre us to the front of the line when we were crossing the border. He even lined up people to carry our bags across for free and bargained a nice new four wheel drive taxi to get us to Kathmandu. The taxi was a new Mahindra which was comfortable and had an excellent driver. It cost $70 US (can use rupees) and took 4 hours to Kathmandu. The scenery on the way was quite spectacular and we stopped to watch some tourists bungie jump off a bridge. There were also tourists coming from Kathmandu for rafting.
Nepal
It was nice to get back to Kathmandu with all of the services available i.e good coffee,big variety of food, ood internet services etc.
Accommodation
Recently we have stayed in Hotel Nepalaya.
This hotel is in a good location and we got a huge, clean adjoining room for $20.This is excellent value. The prices online are much more expensive. The best room is 607.
To get a fantastic deal like this you need to go through excellent travel agent Nirmal Nakarmi who owns Himalayan Magic Adventures. Nirmal is a great fellow and will organise everything you need i.e trekking permits, flights,accommodation, guides, porters, changing money,4 wheel drive and car hire etc. Nirmal can be trusted under any circumstances and makes organising travel for many of my friends and family very easy.To contact Nirmal email n2@vianet.com.np or phone 9841454599
Favourite Trekking Stores
Kala Patther Trekking Store is very hard to beat in terms of price. You don’t have to bargain as the owner will give you an excellent price “straight off” Ph. 9841-263414 or www.Gearsnepal.com .Many mountain climbers and trekking guides and porters seem to go to this tiny shop.
Yak Mountain – I hired a very good quality sleeping bag from them to save carrying it everywhere.The bag was fairly new, clean, of good quality and only cost 50 rupees per day.
Trekking Langtang
We did our first trek in the Langtang area having previously trekked the Annapurnas in various areas, many times.
The road into Langtang is adventurous to say the least. If you are ever going to get car sick then this is the trip to be on. We only saw one bus that had rolled over the edge and then down the mountain. Nirmal Nakarmi organised a nice safe 4 wheel drive for us. I’d suggest if you can afford to take this safer option. If you are on a shoe string then what’s 8 plus hours on a cramped,overloaded bus.(20 people plus always seem to be on the roofs of these buses and many seem to be broken down due to overloading. If I was still 20 I’d go this way.) The 4 wheel drive takes 5-6 hours.
We spent 9 days on this trek and it has a lot of similarities to ABC. It is not an easy trek but there were many people in there late 60’s who managed to complete this trek.
Personally I believe that Day 1 is as tough as walking Upper Pisang or the hardest day on ABC.
Langtang covers some lovely river areas, beautiful areas of rhododendrons and some stunning snow capped mountains at the top of the valley. It has a lot more accommodation than ABC and it looks like it is being geared up for tourism as lots of money is being spent fixing up the road. The area has got some lovely white faced monkeys. Disappointingly all the yaks are small so I can only assume that they are a cross with dairy cattle to improve production.
The hotels aren’t as pretty as ABC and the Annapurnas, as they don’t have the lovely flowering plants planted around them.
Another difference is that there weren’t the big Ganga plants around as per the Annapurnas however there were lots of seedling so I suspect that they will be big in Autumn.
There was quite a few military checkpoints in this area.
Langtang is definitely a wonderful trek but I slightly prefer ABC as it has more prominent mountains i.e Annapurna 1. Also I like to return to Pokhara after trekking as it is a more relaxed town.
Guide Recommendation
Our guide is Tarak Badadur(goes by the name of Dil)
We call him our Lama Guide as he is the best guide you can possibly get. He is highly organised but very relaxed and great company to be with. He is our lifelong friend.
Dil will carry 20 kilos for you and guide as well. Don’t fall for many of the Kathmandu guides that won’t carry a backback( this is poor value)
Dil is only 23 but has been in charge of big groups, small groups, females, young, old, male etc.
He will walk you according to your pace.
Dil looks after you 24 hours per day. He plays cards with you, helps in the kitchen to make sure your food is right, checks that you haven’t left anything in your room etc.
Many of my family and friends have trekked safely with Dil and he can be trusted under any circumstances.
Dil has already taken more than 50 small and big groups over the Thorung La Pass(over 5,400 meteres) with 100% success.
He also checks all the bills(he is studying accountancy) and looks after your interests in every way. He is great company and keeps you safe.
He charges $20 per day and will carry 20 kgs as well as be in charge of porters and look after your safety.
Most of Dil’s work is in the Annapurnas but he is now well versed in Langtang and is keen to trek other areas. Dil comes from a village in the Annapurnas.
To contact Dil email dilbhai2045@hotmail.com
2 nights in Bangkok
We stayed in Bangkok for 2 nights on the way back to Australia.
We found a gem of a hotel called Bangkok Loft Inn. This hotel was 5 minutes from the skytrain ,very clean, secure, cheap and had big comfortable rooms. However the best feature was the wonderful staff. They were just so helpful that we’d rate them the No 1 place we have stayed in our travels. They give a free airport pickup if you stay more than 1 night and will organise a taxi for the airport at a reasonable and not the usual “rip off” price. See them in Trip Advisor. We booked via. www.agoda.com
Please don’t hesitate to contact me for any advice.
Neil Locker
Australia

Great report, NL, thank you!
Did you book your Tibet tour with China Mike?
Did you arrange it from abroad and how much did you pay?
Z

Thank you for providing such practical information. If I may, how much did the visa, guide, and train cost? I know the guide would vary by # of days. I am not looking for anything exact. Just trying to determine a budget.

I actually feel a little sense of relief after reading your post! This is becoming real, my trip to Tibet.

Also, is there a limit to how many days one might spend in the country. I hear they impose limits.

You can stay in Tibet for as long as your China visa is valid but it'll come at a high price.

Tnx for the great summary. I really like to read these type of details,
preparatory to my trip. Glad you took the time to prepare it for us.

Dear SandchoP,Eventually and Zauberberg,

Thanks for your encouraging commments
We booked our trip directly with Nga Wang from overseas and only gave a minimum deposit at my insistence as we wanted to make a definate booking.
The Chinese Visas cost approximately $100 each in Australia and there is no charge for the Tibetan Permit as it part of the procedure for organisingyour tour.You need to be patient as we only got a permit a few days before we travelled to Tibet.
We have read many posts that suggest that the soft sleepers are hard to get.
I'd suggest that Janet from Beijing Downtown Backpackers would be able to organise any train tickets easily as they are purchased in the city you leave from and are delivered to your hotel.Janet is very switched on and highly recommended.
See summaries of our quotes with rail prices.I am happy to send my full quote to any one.These quotes are for a group of 3 people.I think that having your own 4 wheel drive gives you much greater flexibility and access compared to the bigger groups that had buses

Quote Ngawang
The Services included:
1.All neccessary Tibet permit and Everest permit .
2.Accommodation *or ** star hotel in Lhasa with 2 good rooms and good location as well as Gyangtse and shigatse ,Zhang mu
3.Transportation Tibetan driver , good car whole trip .
4.Tibetan Local English tour guide or my self .
5.Western break fast in hotle .
6.Monastery admission fee
7.Everest entrance fee for group and driver \ guide etc...
8.Accommodation and meals for driver and guide .
9.2bottles of mineral waters every day per person .
10.Oxygen if neccessary for Everest .

Total quote price :
19600.00 Yuan .

For your Train Ticket if you needed i can help you buy Ticket from Bejing ,but you have to pay service charge 300. Yuan per person .300*3=900

Train Ticket Costs

Yes i can help you buy train Ticket Bejing to Lhsa 4064km 46 -48 hours.
Price this time :
Hard sleeper : 1.upstair 767RMB 2. middle 789RMB 3.downstair 813 6people in one room.
soft sleepr :1.upstair 1216RMB 2.downstair 1262RMB 4people in one room.

I hope this is useful.
Regards
Neil Locker

Thanks for the detailed report , lots of useful info.
A note on oxygen use : please don´t think of the hair spray model oxygen cans as a safety factor at EBC , there is a minimum time and flow for this to have a real effect. The one time I´ve seen oxygen used by a army medic it was 2.5 liters per minute for more than half an hour : an aerosol can will run dry in a small fraction of that time , and you may need longer.

On the train there are two different systems : everyone breathes extra oxygen ( the air in the carriages is spiked up to 24 %) , and on top of that you have the oxygen outlets.

Awesome and very helpful information NL,planning a trip to China and Tibet with EBC,but never thought of crossing over to Nepal

How many days will a trip from Lhasa to EBC and back would take and would coming over to Nepal work out actually cheaper and shorter?

Nepal visa ,do you get it on the border crossing or have to obtain it beforehand .

Might bother you with some more questions.

Thanks and regards,

Parag Ahlawat.

Nepali visas at the border : passport photo , dollars , and a filled in visa form . You can get it in Lhasa as well , but it´s not worth the time spent.

Getting a Visa at the Nepal border is very easy as per reply from Vislet. It is also helpful to have the right US dollars ready and a copy of the Visa application form filled in with your photo already glued to the form.The cost of the Visa varies by the length of stay and what country you come from.It cost us $25 US each for 15 days.There are details on this process in the Nepal section or pm me.
Even if you fly into Nepal it is quick,easy and cheaper to get a visa as you enter if you have the application,photo and money all ready.
re.comment on oxygen by Vislet-- this is very is important information as the oxygen bottles I was talking about in my report only hold a small amount of oxygen which gave my wife 8-10 breaths per bottle.For more serious altitude sickness then you would need the much larger capacity medical oxygen bottles that are in hospitals.A good guide however should keep a good eye on you and make sure that it is safe for you to go over high passes and to places like Everest Base Camp.
Just like trekking in Nepal a good guide can be invaluable.
Regards
Locknuts

Has anyone heard heard that Tibet may be closed in July?

Many rumors about this that started with a closure in June : 60 year "anniversary" of the Seventeen Point Agreement , marking the end of Tibetan indepence.

Neil-- I just came across your posting....great summary with lots of useful info! I'm glad that my Tibetan tour guide recommendation worked out for you (and also thanks for the plug for china-mike.com!).

Mike,
I really appreciated your recommendation as Nga Wang proved to be fantastic.There are too many touts on this thread.
Your website is a fantastic resource.Thanks
Best regards
Neil

Since it looks like the general area of Tibet is going to be inaccessible due to closure, I have received a recommendation to go to the area of the Tibetan plateau that does not require a permit. Repkong (Amdo). There is a shaman festival going on that I and my fellow travelers could see and since it is part of the same geographical region, would offer some of the same geographical wonders.

Can anyone comment on this idea? Might someone who has gone to this area comment?

Eventually,
I'd recommend you look on china-mike.com ,find out Mike Lin's email address and email him for advice.He is very knowledgeable with no commercial interests.Our backup plan was Yunnan
Regards
Neil

Great site! It is so informative for all of the nuts and bolts kind of advice. Thank you for directing me to it.

My trip has come and gone and it was fabulous despite the closing of Tibet Proper. We did, in fact, spend our time in the Tibetan Plateau area and it seemed, as was said to us, we saw the "real" Tibet.

I highly recommend LumBum as a guide. A recommendation was given to me for him from Phil Borges, a photographer, who just published a beautiful book called _Tibet: Culture on the Edge.

LumBum is very knowdegable, is Tibetan, is experienced and is a lot of fun. We also spent a few days being guided by his wife Namdon who was equal in quality of service to us as a guide. Lovely, wonderful, fascinating entrance into a culture so different and so inspiring.

LumBum and Namdon's email is happyfreeboy2003@gmail.com