Travelling Europe on a budget

I originally set up this account to esquire about people opinions about weather i should travel to Asia or Europe for a first solo back packing trip. Europe has always been my plan but my god mother just spent an evening selling Asia to me and ive always wanted to go east at some point. Luckily for me, I just found out I'm not allowed to go anywhere i need an injection for 3 months after the clinical trial I'm doing so that decisions been made for me.
Basically I've got a budget of around £4200 which could increase to £6000 if certain things work out on the money front. At the moment I'm planning to travel down to Athens to begin with to meet a friend for a few days. and just taking it as it comes from there. If I'm prepared to take all the money saving opportunities available, how long can this kind of budget last for in Europe?

It will depend on the countries you visit. But if you are starting in Athens and working your way through Eastern Europe it will last longer then being in Western Europe. 6000 pounds on a budget trip should last you 3 months, no worries. But you could easily make it last longer.

There are a lot of variables though that could make dents into your budget. If you are a social drinker then you will travel for less time on the money available. Transport can make a big dent as well. Steer clear of the rail passes and pay as you go. Maybe check out Hitchwiki.com for the basics of hitchhiking to see if that appeals to you. It can save a lot of money and as you have no set timeframe is a viable option.

Give a bit more information to us about what your rough itinerary is, your interests, how you plan to travel and stay etc and the future posters will be able to give you a more accurate estimate on your timeframe.

£6000 can last you 1 month or it can last you 3 years. Have a read here: http://frugaltraveler.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/qa-with-leon-logothetis-a-5-a-day-traveler/

For many people, it seems enough for about 3-4 months.

Well my friend and i would quite like to visit Istanbul, but It seems like we will either go there or the Greek islands. I expect this portion of he trip to be a little more expensive as it's the only part I plan to be travelling with someone else. I've heard good things about the black sea coast of Bulgaria, but I don't know much if anything about the country. I'm a big fan of romantic poetry so anywhere that Lord Byron visited on his European tour holds significance and based on that I'd love to see Albania. I'm especially keen to go to Croatia to. don't really know eastern europe well enough to have a uge long list of places I want to see, I'm hoping to just discover it as I go, but I'm flicking through the travel guide and things keep jumping out at me
I'm considering beginning the trip by taking a land route to Greece from the uk, but because I'm meeting my friend at a certain time, I would only have about 10 days for that journey. I could go down through france to italy and get a ferry to greece. I've heard of people hitch hiking to Istanbul in a week, so i could possibly hitch hike some of this journey.
I went to Germany for Chelsea's champions league final last season and found it beautiful and so under rated as a destination but I was only there for a day, flew into Frankfurt and got a train to Munich and went straight back so I'd love to see more of Germany.
Then I find myself thinking I've got friends who may be in the south of France towards the middle of my trip who could put me up if I could get there, but This is talking about going a long way now and I really want to stretch the budget as far as possible.
I'm perfectly willing to camp from time to time in the interest of saving money, and I'm looking at the possibility of WWOOFing to.
Any tips on saving money and any suggestions on places I absolutely have to go would be welcome.

Thanks for the replies
Oli

Tip 1 to save money is do not go the the Greek islands. It is expensive to get to them and travel in between and you will drink your weight in booze.

As well as WWOOFing there are other sites not based around organic farming but on the same principle. You work maybe 3 to 6 hours a day for food and lodgings. Unfortunately I cannot remember the names of the sites at the moment as I have never used them myself. To lazy.

Gerard, not everyone who goes to the Greek islands spends a lot of money or drinks their weight in booze. A hostel dorm bed for example may be 10E, hardly expensive.

http://www.hostelz.com/hostel/60356-Rodos-Youth-Hostel

The generally accepted basic backpacker budget for Europe is 50E per day. That does not include transportation and allows for hostels and supermarket food along with the odd beer or museum entry. In the last few months on the Europe branch there has been a shift towards suggesting a bit more than 50E should now be considered but as of now that view has not gained a consensus of regular posters.

If you take 70E as a decent figure to work with then 6k would last 85 days, so roughly 3 months. At 70E per day if you do not move too often, then it could include some transportation as well.

I suggest you cross post on the W. Europe branch if you have not already done so.

You mention an interest in Byron and obviously are wondering how to decide where you will go. Why not follow Byron? It isn't difficult to Google and find where he visited in Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Byron

Do you know he died in Missolonghi, Greece or that if you visit Chilon Castle on Lake Geneva (setting of Byron's poem 'The Prisoner of Chilon') you can still see where Byron carved his name into one of the pillars in the Castle's dungeon.

Given the breadth of his travels, you could easily put together a route to follow in his footsteps.

A lot depends on where in Europe. The Eastern bit is generally much cheaper than the Western bit.

True mickyfinn, but I always steer away from any suggestion that because a place is cheaper someone should go there. The first criteria should always be to go where you are interested in going. I'd rather go to Rome for a week than Slovenia for a month. Cheap isn't everything.

This site is pretty good for Eastern Europe and includes Greece, Turkey and Croatia. It may give you some ideas of where to go in between.

http://www.balkanology.com/index.html

Personally I would recommend at least having a look at Belgrade, Budapest, Kotor, Sarajevo and Mostar

check out Couchsurfing...it's free and a fantastic way to meet the locals. I've hosted and stayed with hosts. This will open a whole new world for you. Enjoy :)

I was very reluctant to suggest Couchsurfing as he wants to save money and that is not the point of Couchsurfing (but a happy side effect).

If you main motivation to couchsurf is to save money then please do not join. It is a cultural exchange and you are expected to give something back to your hosts. Be it a gift, cooking a meal, taking out for dinner. Helping with the housework (many different ways not always involving a monetary value). As Couchsurfing has got more well known, more people who just want to save money have joined the site and mooching of hosts. As a result I have seen a lot of generous and experienced hosts leave site in the last 18 months as they are sick and tired of being taken advantage of. Please to not contribute to degeneration of this site.

Having said that it is a great way to meet locals and really get a feel and insider look at the country/city/town you are staying in.

@#7, I agree with your point. The only reason I bought that up is because of the seemingly important budget.

#10. I disagree somewhat. The main point is cultural exchange yes, and it should not be used as a free bed.. i.e. as a host I would expect to spend time with the surfer. But that being said, I think a large part of it is to enable poor people to travel the world. I think that is a wonderful concept. I used to live in one of the more expensive cities in Europe. I hosted around 25 couchsurfers there. Many of them were very poor, and there is no way they would have been able to travel if it weren't for couchsurfing. I would NOT allow couchsurfers to take me out and pay for my dinner. When they come to my city, they are MY guests and I treat THEM. Similarly, I have used couchsurfing (and surfed with strangers outside of CS) in at least 30 countries and it is rare that they expect anything other than a cultural exchange and having a good time out of me. I think hosting people yourself and being generous with those is the best way to "give back". Reading someone's profile before hosting/surfing is also a good way to prevent being taken advantage of.

I always steer away from any suggestion that because a place is cheaper someone should go there

That is your opinion. Many people opine differently. Especially in the "shoestring" branch.

That's where we disagree mate Max. I let Couchsurfers buy me dinner, cook me dinner or buy me beer or give a gift just like I do when when I surf. I also will cook for surfers sometimes, but I stipulate they have to be self sufficient with there food.

I am happy to drive my couchsurfers around and show them the sights. Take them out to spot wildlife (koala's wallabies etc in our nearby bushland). But I am not happy hosting free loaders.

It is not just for the poor, it is just that this is becoming the expectation.

Never had an issue with free loaders until the last 18 months, when there has seemed to have been a attitude shift and i am not the only one have have noticed.

Summarising, we basically have different opinions and we both respect each others views.

thanks for the point to couch surfing. I've been a member for a while and I love the concept.
I Definately think of it as a combinarion of a money saver and a cultural exchange. if its 30 quid for a local host however, is much rather spend the same amount cooking someone dinner and having a night out. I wouldn't expect somebody to pay for my food, that's a bit cheeky haha

as it turns out, ive got family friends in Kosovo, so ill probably be heading from Greece up through Bulgaria and into Kosovo that way, then hopefully get. a lift with said friends to the Albanian border after my time there. has anybody had experience hitch hiking in eastern Europe? is it advisable, dangerous, the same?

any answers greatly appreciated thanks x

oli

i remember the castle of chilio. frpm the Rupert Everett documentary. that will Definately be something to add to the list, thanks. Ive uaf aspirations of swimming the hellespont but i doubt thatl ever happen hsha

Unfortunately, there is a whole segment of backpackers who give 'backpackers' a bad name. It is for this reason that the word 'backpacker' is a derogatory term in many places. When an initially good idea like Couchsurfing comes along it starts to become known through word of mouth to a group of like minded people.

Take WWOOFing for example. Initially, it was intended to allow people from cities in the UK to go out to a farm for a weekend and learn about organic food. The original name was Weekend Workers On Organic Farms, thus WWOOF. The intent was for the worker to gain some insight/knowledge and hopefully when they returned to the city they would start buying orgainic farm produce which would be a benefit to the farmer.

But over time, WWOOF has changed dramatically. First, it has become a business that sells memberships. Second it is no longer only about organic farming, just about any kind of company can join WWOOF and look for part time labour in exchange for room and board. In other words, using the participant.

On the other side, many people now join only to get room and board for a few hours work and see themselves as getting more out of it than the farmer/business. In other words, they are using it for selfish reasons. So now both sides are trying to get the best of the other.

Obviously, not all participants are like this but it is inevitable given human nature that this is what will happen. Couchsurfing is no exception. From an initial idea of a cultural exchange where the traveller met and spent some time with a host, it has become something that is posted about here and elsewhere as a 'free bed' for a traveller. As a result, someone may show up at 6pm looking for a free meal, spend a couple of tours telling their host what a savvy and worldly traveller they are, go to bed and leave in the morning, but not before a free breakfast.

If you Google you will find information and people who believe anyone who says they don't Couchsurf primarily for a free bed but primarily for the cultural exchange are kidding themselves (to put it politely). You will also find that Couchsurfing as an organization has become controversial and its practices questionable indeed. Again, the money making motive comes into play. So you get questions about 'where does the donation money go' and various other allegations of impropriety.

As a result, someone may show up at 6pm looking for a free meal, spend a couple of tours telling their host what a savvy and worldly traveller they are, go to bed and leave in the morning, but not before a free breakfast.

The host then writes that in the review, and anyone that hosts that traveler in the future has themselves to blame for not reading through the reviews.

Olly, I've just understood what you mean by -
I'm not allowed to go anywhere i need an injection for 3 months after the clinical trial I'm doing
(I'd thought it meant you had to have an injection after 3 months.)

So - travelling always involves an element of risk, but the savvy traveller minimises that risk.
Bearing this in mind, I hope you're up to date with tetanus, hep a + b, polio vaccinations, etc. Otherwise, is there some way you can have the recommended vaccinations (the list above is not exhaustive) before this trial?

Just because something isn't compulsory doesn't mean it's not a sensible precaution.

Actually Max. Stuff being polite.

Complete C RAP that Couchsurfing is for the poor. If someone wants to stay with me just to save money they can get stuffed and I tell them so when i respond to their couch request. These so called poor are all from 1st world countries. They think they are "alternative " but wear the same uniform.

I have surfed thru South America, Middle East, Africa not Europe, but a dare say it is different to Europe and tight arrses are not tolerated where I surfed.

People do not host to feed and let someone sleep in their house to ignore them. Read the the Couchsurfing guidelines Max.

Travel is a luxury, not a neccesity or right. If you can't afford to stay somewhere you should not go.

I thought the general rule in life (not specifically couchsurfing) was that if anyone ever puts you up in their house you should be willing to spend at least 50% of what a hotel would have cost on food/entertainment/transport for the both of you? This always seemed like a fair deal to me.

I've used couchsurfing but never actually stayed at someones house. I always just arrange to meet up with them, usually for coffee or lunch or sometimes they will offer to give me a tour of where I am visiting. I usually offer to pick up the bill for any small items e.g. coffee or snacks as I appreciate them taking the time out of their day for me. More expensive things we will split the bill.

Sorry I can't edit my last post.

I wanted to add that by meeting up with them you can still get the full cultural exchange without the problems people have mentioned in this thread involved with staying at their house.

If you travel by bike, your money will last a lot longer. You could conceivably due part of Asia as well by bike, though SE Asia would be more difficult due to the heat.

I like the idea that those people (Americans? Japanese? Aussies? ) who can afford to fly to an ''expensive European city'' are then too poor to pay for a hostel bed ;-)

Whoa, take a chill pill Gerard.

People do not host to feed and let someone sleep in their house to ignore them. Read the the Couchsurfing guidelines Max.

Where did this come from? Read my #12: it should not be used as a free bed ... as a host I would expect to spend time with the surfer.

Complete C RAP that Couchsurfing is for the poor. If someone wants to stay with me just to save money they can get stuffed

Again, are we talking about different things? If they stay with you just+ to save money, then I fully agree with you. But as long as they are +also interested in the cultural exchange aspect, I don't care if the main reason they signed up was to save money or not.

For example, one young guy I hosted had been diagnosed with an illness causing muscle atrophy and loss of mobility. Within some number of years he'd become immobile. He decided to make the best out of the time he had left as mobile and set out on an epic biking trip around the continent. One problem: he didn't have any money. So...... he turned to couchsurfing! I think examples like this make couchsurfing so great. It gives everyone a chance to travel and see the world, not just the rich/privileged ones.

I let Couchsurfers buy me dinner /../ buy me beer /../ tight arrses are not tolerated where I surfed

But what are you saying? That you take surfers out and expect them to pick up the bill? I don't know what to make out of it. I took a look at your profile, you have about 60 reviews, all of them positive. I have the exact same number of reviews as you coincidentally, all of them also positive. So it seems both of us are pretty likable. I'm guessing you're reading something into what I wrote that I didn't mean, and vice versa.

Travel is a luxury, not a neccesity or right. If you can't afford to stay somewhere you should not go.

So people born into a rich family should have more rights than poor ones? People in third world countries should just stay at home? I find that mindset completely whack.

max...how do these poor people in third world countries arrive at ''an expensive european city''?

How do they find couchsurfing opportunities without internet access?

Have many people here on Thorn Tree done Couchsurfing?
There never seems to be much in the way of actual feedback of stays/visits. I've never considered it myself so can't comment on experiences. However it does sound like as good way to get a cheap/free bed, as well as making friends (and possibly a few enemies) quickly.

Max I said travel was not a right. Therefore you shouldn't expect to travel, it is a luxury. Just as you shouldn't expect a ferrari or a rolex. I'm not saying people with less money shouldn't travel but they should always travel to locations within their budget. Would I like to go to Bhutan? Sure, but I can't afford the tourist tax so have not been. I'm not going to moan that people with more money can travel there because frankly I don't think just because I want to go somewhere I'm entitled to go.

It is completely irresponsible to go somewhere you can not afford to stay.

lucapal, they probably have internet at those nice big schools they go to where they learnt to speak fluent English ;-)

I think the point Max is that there is a segment who are only interested in a free bed, whether they could afford to pay for a hostel bed or not.

This is a segment of 'travellers' that gravitate towards anything they see they can take advantage of. Let me give a real life example. When I had my bar in Greece, two young guys came in one day and asked if there were any jobs available. I told them, 'sorry, no jobs here'.

They sat at the bar and told me a story of woe about how they had no money, nowhere to stay and hadn't eaten in 3 days. Now the funny thing is that this '3 days' comment seems to be a common phrase. I heard it numerous times from someone. It's an immediate Red Flag. You're dealing with a scammer.

These two guys continued to sit at the bar and try to extend their time. It was clear they were looking for a free beer. They didn't get one. Finally, they asked if they could leave their backpacks in my storeroom for a few hours while the went looking for a job. I agreed to let them do that.

A few hours later, they returned. Again, they sat at the bar, told me they didn't find any jobs, were going to have to sleep on the beach, yada, yada. Again they tried to prolong their time and obviously were hoping for a free beer or a handout of money to buy a meal. They got nothing. Finally, when about to go on their way, I went into the storeroom to pick up their packs and give them to them. As I picked one up, the top came open and out spilled half a dozen cans of beer.

How did they buy beer if they had no money for food? There story was all BS Max and they were not the only ones. This segment does exist and as I said, gravitate to anything they think they can USE without paying for.

No doubt there are plenty of people who see Couchsurfing, WWOOF, et al as ways to meet people, interract,etc. but there are others only interested in what they can get for nothing.

I think the crux of the issue is in the remark by gerardkenny

"Never had an issue with free loaders until the last 18 months, when there has seemed to have been a attitude shift and i am not the only one have have noticed."

More and more of the freeloaders (to use a polite term) are catching on.

Have many people here on Thorn Tree done Couchsurfing? There never seems to be much in the way of actual feedback of stays/visits.

Just go to any random profile on couchsurfing.com and have a read. Feedback is public.

max...how do these poor people in third world countries arrive at ''an expensive european city''?

Most people I hosted in Europe were poor Europeans. Some were from 3rd world countries. Some of the Europeans were hitchhiking around the continent. Many arrived on budget airlines, paying ~50€ or less. I don't remember how the others arrived, I think one was in Europe anyway for some event and took the opportunity to travel, one flew in from Asia and was doing a several month long backpacking trip, her flights probably cost around 500€. She had been hosting people herself in Asia, and now built her trip around the contacts she had created.

The consensus on the west europe branch is that you need minimum 50€/day to survive. For a two month trip, that's 3000€. You can see how flight costs are just a fraction of this number. With couchsurfing, you could get by with perhaps 10€/day. That you need to offer monetary payment to your host is just nonsense. There are other ways you can contribute.

How do they find couchsurfing opportunities without internet access?

I've been wondering the same thing. But you have traveled yourself Lucapal. As I'm sure you know, even people living in small 3rd world villages are on facebook these days.

Max I said travel was not a right. Therefore you shouldn't expect to travel, it is a luxury. Just as you shouldn't expect a ferrari or a rolex. /../ people with less money should always travel to locations within their budget. It is completely irresponsible to go somewhere you can not afford to stay.

You are completely missing the point. Couchsurfing is a way for poor people to go to these places. It opens up the world for them. It now IS within their budget, because they stay for free. Who says travel is a luxury? Who is it irresponsible to? I gladly host these people when they come to my city, and I have visited several of my surfers in their home towns and they have reciprocated with incredible hospitality. We're all happy, win-win, no-one is feeling used. So what is with the aversion, people? Is it jealousy? If you are paying a lot of money to travel, then so should everyone else? Or a feeling that you have been missing out by not using CS and now trying to justify it?

I think the point Max is that there is a segment who are only interested in a free bed, whether they could afford to pay for a hostel bed or not. More and more of the freeloaders (to use a polite term) are catching on.

I'll repeat. There is a system in place for that: reviews. Put it in the review so others will see. And don't host someone with bad reviews.

I don't think anybody is saying couchsurfing doesn't potentially benefit everyone involved. The problem is that SOME people on there simply use it as an excuse to try and freeload off willing hosts. There is a big difference between criticising couch surfing and criticising some of the people that use the site.

I have used the couchsurfing site myself to some degree. Never hosted or stayed at another persons house but have arranged to meet people off there to spend days with or go out for food with. I have had a lot of good encounters doing this. I would personally not feel comfortable staying at a strangers house for free, particularly as I live in a very small isolated town so don't have the opportunity to host travelers and give something back. Basically I would feel like I was taking advantage of the system. I have no problem paying for a hostel/b&b. Lets be honest in the majority of the world you can get a place for under $15 anyway. By the time you have cooked your host a meal and gave them a small gift (as I would personally chose to do to thank them for their kindness) you are not saving that much money.

Why would travel not be a luxury? You can feed me all the lines you want about "cultural immersion", "broadening the mind" etc. but lets be honest the main reason we all travel is because we enjoy it. Travel is not essential to life.

I still think it is irresponsible to travel somewhere you can not afford to stay. What happens if the persons host has to cancel last minute? They have nowhere to stay and can't afford a hotel room, making them pretty much by definition a freeloader.

Please take a look at the CS profile for my friend Scruff Riley. I think he embodies CS better than anyone else and should give you a better idea of what CS is about. He's Canadian, 29, and has been traveling the world for 10 years without a cent! Pay particular attention to the section under "Opinion on the Couchsurfing.org Project".

http://www.couchsurfing.org/profile.html?id=2PC8ESF

'Just go to any random profile on couchsurfing.com and have a read. Feedback is public.'

It's people on T.T. who I am more interested in hearing from.

I would be interested in seeing the statistics...how many couchsurfers are American/West European/Australian etc. vs how many are 3rd world African,Bolivian or Cambodian etc.

Maybe 999-1 ?

And max...if you think an Asian who can afford to spend 500 euros on a flight is 'poor'...maybe you need to travel there a bit more off the beaten track.

Go to some of those ''3rd world villages'' and see how they really live.....

It's people on T.T. who I am more interested in hearing from.

Scruff Riley is on TT as well.

I would be interested in seeing the statistics...how many couchsurfers are American/West European/Australian etc. vs how many are 3rd world African,Bolivian or Cambodian etc. Maybe 999-1 ?

Maybe that is the thing, that people are making up numbers and ideas and basing their aversion on that? The detailed statistics are not available any more since CS is no longer a non-profit, but here are stats from 2 years ago:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Couchsurfers_by_country.png

Here are some more up-to-date stats:

http://www.couchsurfing.org/statistics

And max...if you think an Asian who can afford to spend 500 euros on a flight is 'poor'...maybe you need to travel there a bit more off the beaten track. Go to some of those ''3rd world villages'' and see how they really live.....

I spoke about poor Europeans and people from 3rd world countries. Only you have spoken about poor people from 3rd world countries (whatever is the definition of that). I was in Nepal 2 months ago. Rented a motorcycle and drove up the mountains. Ended up being invited to a wedding in a village northwest of Pokhara and had a blast (this was the wedding dance). No couchsurfing, just random people I met. I tried to pay for the food I ate at the wedding, and offered to buy drinks or something, but my offers were strongly rejected. I was a guest and it would be insulting, condescending, for a westerner to waltz in and pick up the tab. The people I met said they had never spoken to a foreigner before. Two of them are now my friends on facebook, so somehow they must have access to Internet. I have similar stories from Haiti, Iraq, China, etc. How come you seem so surprised at this Lucapal, and so averse to the idea of hospitality? Reading your posts on this branch, I thought you were a very experienced traveler. Do you mostly hang out with other westerners at backpacker hostels?