train toilets/rest rooms

I'm trying to persuade my wife to undertake a train trip around the world with me. Sort of London-Middle East, up to Moscow, across to Beijing, down Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia, across Australia, over to Chile and up to Canada and across and then over to South Africa and up and back to London. I recently retired after 30 years in the rail industry and still would receive healthy discounts on many rail companies but my wife is worried about the toilets. I've travelled by rail in India and Vietnam and she's put off by my stories of holes in the floor. She doesn't believe that they are much more hygenic than the 'western' bowl and seat. Any experiences to share?

thanks

Nick

Any Indian toilet in cattle class will be an enlightening experience. Tell her you are researching the worst train bogs in the world and you need her perpective from a female angle, or leave her at home?

I've always left her at home, now I want her to come with me. We've been on the California Zephyr (I think that that was what it was called, Chicago to San Francisco) and she enjoyed that but we had our own compartment, toilet and shower included. I've found 1st class in India OK but then I'll put up with a lot.

Sounds like she's better travel mate at home.

Why would she care?
Hygenic for whom?

GOD BLESS SOLO TRAVEL

I know, I know.

folded newspaper?

Women are funny about such things.

Are you serious?! That is one fantastic trip! Wish I could do it.
I assume your wife is also an ardent traveler, and ready to hit the road for several months. If not, then there will be more serious problemsd than dealing with the loos.
I've been on some of those trains; always first class. Obviously, for your wife the first class accomodations would be "mo better". But even then, as you well know, you will frequently have to share the cabin with two or more other passengers, unless you pay for the entire cabin. My take is that more and more train lines are adding western type w/c seats. You will recall that in India they give you a choice. And, if I remember correctly, on the Beijing/Hong Kong line, the first class passengers had a "chamber pot" for their convenience; again, first class, two passengers to a cabin.
Tell your wife it will not be too bad. That she will probably not be inconvenienced that much; just "go with the flow"(!!!).

Any tips; yes here goes, I cracked it in China so after reading this she should be ok.

1) dont just drop the cargo trousers (take them off) otherwise she may have an accident.
2) squat down and line up over the drop zone.
3) now its a question of balance put the right hand on the edge of the window and the left hand on the door.
4) relax and adopt the position of an olympic ski jumper just before they fly off the ski ramp
5) this is the hard part, sway with the rhythm of the train but keeping your aim dead centre of the hole.
6) important part this; dont forget paper, there isnt any in the toilet.

Thats it; she will get better with practice, before you go try a dry run - take her out buy her a very large meal get her very, very, drunk so that she is swaying all over the place open the loo door and chuck her in, it should then be akin to a squat toilet on a train.

Most important of all - be sure you really want to go. The legs will quickly cramp up in the unaccustomed squatting position , then you will not be able to rise again.....
Of course, in India, one seldom does not need to go.....

In my young days I used to take off my trousers and hold them above my head as I straddled the hole, standing.
But in the last 10 years I've got wiser and more cunning. Here's how to do it: -

1) straddle hole
2) take trousers down to your knees
3) bend forward from the waist, and bend your knees
4) with one hand, pull trousers forward
5) with other hand, either hold the rail or push firmly on one knee to brace yourself.
6) aaaaah!

In 10 years of using this technique I haven't yet had an 'accident'.

Fu-unny!!! JJD and Go_2. Yet only too true.

Smokenack the first rule of travelling is, "If Momma ain't happy...ain't nobody happy!" Make sure she'll be happy or split your trip into smaller parts to accommodate her.

I look forward to more instructional suggestions.

And Marco Polo's 1st law; Never piss-off the cook !

2nd law is travel USING a money belt !

Sounds like you have a problem.

I too have used the straddle technique for years, (I also tuck my trousers bottoms into my socks to avoid the fabric on the floor problems) however now my knees are locked straight (long complicated story, followed by long complicated surgery), the thought of a "squatter" now fills me with horror and depair.

Could you reverse the trip and make it small steps at a time? Start in perhaps Australia or South Africa and let the reality since in slowly.

Best wishes

Always empty your pockets before going - especially if carrying a mobile phone.

When the train stops at night, you know if you are in a station by the rising ammonia - who ever obeys that "not while the train is standing" lark?

You can prepare for the experience before leaving home. Turn off the water, empty the U-bend then wait a short while. Then use the loo and let that ferment for a couple of hours.

Dave

Thank God for the pee bucket which I used gratefully on an overnight Indian bus while in a coffin like berth.... Simply empty out the window, rinse and empty again. I didn't repeat this story to many but it seems fitting here...
After that experience I would definitely use in on any funky train. A quart size plastic container....the stand and go and pour down the hole method.... No splashes or cramps to worry about ! Just make sure you have water with you to rinse.

If there is a will there's a way.

She doesn't believe that they are much more hygenic than the 'western' bowl and seat.

Just take her to a public toilet ANYWHERE and point to the seat.
"Are you sure you would prefer to be in physical contact with that, dear?"

I used to use go_2 and JJD's method, but after having an embarrassing accident in a cattle stall in Tunisia, then having the loo door ripped open on a ferry in Solomons while trying unsuccessfully to levitate over the travesty that called itself a toilet, in front startled onlookers, I switched to wearing skirts. Eliminates the threat of accidents and keeps you clothed (you can drop a skirt more quickly than pull up trousers) in case of interruptions.

In Inchon, it was a tin bowl of water, in a big private bare room.
A kid outside the door, sold tp by the square.

Yeah, I switched to wearing skirts once, but all these men started following me around and going into a male toilet in skirts is asking for trouble....

I think it will depend on how much of a traveler she is at heart.
When we were going off to Africa for the first time I was terrified because I had very bad knees and had no idea how I was going to manage the longdrops as they call them there.
BUT I am crazy for travel so there was no way I would be left behind. I assumed something would work out.
All the techniques mentioned above (the serious ones) are employed by such as I. I've gotten good at them and my worst knee has now been replaced so I will be even better on the next venture into those environments.
BUT the thing is ....if she's not crazy to travel, she will HATE this stuff. The toilets and the people in your face and the strange food and so on.
THAT's the question you have to answer. Those of us with the travel itch will put up with anything, adapt to anything and laugh about all the disasters. They make the best stories.
People without the itch will only be unhappy and desperate to go home.

As to hygenic - the longdrops , holes in floors, etc are MUCH more hygenic. That's why so many women hover over toilet seats to begin with. This is just a matter of getting your aim right and THAT is tricky. As mentioned, it's also important to wait till you REALLY have to go.

Just tell your Dr. you suffer from loo knee.

Keep traveling regardless.
Funny. They call 'em long drops in the outback too. Men and women's out houses are a stereo.

In the Opera house in Odessa, they had those old french raised foot pad, white clay hole in floor model.

If the lady in question is in for some adventure and doing something out of the ordinary before it's too late she will get over the toilet trouble within 4 or 5 days.
My first days on holiday I am often disgusted about this and that but as I go I just get used to it and the novelty of it all is much more important to me than the discomfort. When I get tired I just upgrade to a better place and rest before I go on.

Advise:
Don't go to dirty toilets short after a main meal. The nausea might cause vomits or even vomiting like it happened to me sometimes.
Have wet napkins with disinfectant with you to clean your hands after you have touched those doors and handles. Have someone holding your bag and coat because it's hard to balance if you need to hold your stuff.
Yes for sure empty the pockets of your trousers and roll them up because you don't want that dirt on your clothing.
Have paper napkins or toilet paper in your pocket at any time.

If your wife is already concerned about the condition of the toilets I think you should also tell her there are places where toilets are not individual, like in many places in China.
Now I know that men stand brotherly next to each other while urinating, but for me as a woman to put my pants down and squad in a row with other women is quite uneasy. Sometimes even with doors open and people passing by. It's a nightmare, all the noises and smells that should be kept private are shared. Then you are at a airport or big shopping mall and bathrooms have doors but many Chinese women don't care to close them. Makes me think of Scandinavian young women at the end of the seventies and eighties when I used to camp a lot. The women would walk around naked in the big rooms where bathrooms and toilets where as if they were at home or in the sauna. But it was not home it was Spain, Portugal and Greece where I saw it. And there people there don't do that.

In Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam people also do it on the street or along the road when the bus stops. Me and my friend would walk away looking for a bush to hide or just use the sarong to make a wall. The locals would laugh and probably make lots of jokes. Just different outlooks and that makes travel really interesting. Afterwards I can even laugh about my own embarrassment.

Just do it before it's too late.Your plan is great and if your wife doesn't want to go with you it's a pity, but don't stay at home dreaming about what could have been. Just look for someone else or do it on your own. You will be sorry if you miss this chance.
You can also convince her to start with a month away trip. Take a plane somewhere and go back home with the train, or do the train thing only a part of the time. If she likes it the second step could be made more adventurous.
Good luck

Australian long-distance trains have better loos than anything I saw in Europe.

The worst things make the best stories.

God bless Handi-wipes.

One thing is for sure, if she reads this thread she won't be going.

I hope she takes this thread lightly. If she stays at home she can enjoy her clean bathroom and talk about it.
Very interesting indeed....
If she accepts the proposal of her husband she gets a second honeymoon and lots of shared adventures that will make great stories that will keep them both going until they die.
Back home she will enjoy her clean bathroom more than now. And her happy husband will be even more enjoyable than he already is.
What more can a woman want?

I suggest carrying a roll-end in your day pack. With the cardboard pulled out.

Multipurpose.

Agree the skirt is by far the best solution; I remember years ago travelling by bus over the mountains in Laos when it was still a bit dodgy using the roads - anyway - we stopped in the middle of nowhere for a toilet break. I was happily peeing up against the side of the bus when the only other westener a young dutch woman stood by my side and asked if I would accompany her to some nearby bushes because she was scared of going for a pee on her own. I finished and zipped up within 2 seconds and chased after her we ducked behind the bushes she hitched up her skirt up squatted down she was done and dusted within a couple of minutes and I didnt even see a thing; so yes, without doubt the skirt is the answer. So remember If using a squat toilet on a moving train, in a third world bus terminal, an unsafe ferry, in the open air, the skirt is by far the answer, and I will carry on using squat toilets and peeing and *** into the arse of my (rohan) combat trousers.

Hmmm...a new slant on "travelling by the seat of your pants?"
But if the skirt is so great why aren't you using one....you travel lighter too, as you only need one skirt but a pair of trousers....

I always take a sarong when traveling and don't mind the odd stares as I woble through a rattling train corridor en route the loo at 3 in the morning. At that time my aim is not the best so being able to hike up the sarong is a definite bonus.

Dave

Wear a skirt, me, "Please" a bloke is particular where he hitches up his skirt - I do not hitch it up for anyone you know..

The Scots aren't so bashful... :>))

Haaaa; I,m Welsh.

Comiserations....

Here's THE answer, contoured for perfect fit and handy for wilderness backpacking: http://www.nextag.com/female-urinal/products-html

Defecation is another story of course.

2010 Asia travel journal (a work in progress): http://ckjournal.blogspot.com/

Actually, the first time I did a long train journey in India I avoided drinking much to try to hold out. But when I had to go the toilets weren't actually anywhere near as bad as I was expecting and I regretted making myself thirsty! Honestly, even where they are bad you simply get used to holding your nose and being as quick as possible. And wipes are a good idea. Agree - don't show your wife this thread - it'll certainly put her off!

I agree with travelling on busses and trains in a skirt... much easier to navigate those 'moments'. I also agree with the 'start with the easier places' like North America or Australia or Nz. so she can decide If she really gets off on travelling. If you can afford it, perhaps she can fly and join you in some of the more 'civilized' places

Canayjun; long time hope you are ok; have you been to south east asia yet.

#36 Stopping drinking to avoid the toilets is a dangerous thing. you end up dehydrating, get constipation and maybe even worse things. So wherever you are specially in warm countries drink plenty bottled water all day long.

Think of it all as an adventure... Many of the most hillarious and memorable travel stories are toilet adventures....
As an older solo female traveller of many years, I have shifted from wearing long pants to longer length full skirts. It is infinitely easier to manage than dropping and holding on to your dacks with pocketfulls of of valuables while trying to maintain balance in the (swaying) squatting position. Squatting. Most westeners dont spend much time squatting, therefore lowering and raising yourself, and maintaining a squatting position is a muscular challenge. BUT with daily practice before you go any one can prime and strengthern those "squat muscles" more than you would believe possible. I have learnt to pull the crutch of my underdaks to the side so I dont have to drop them to go to the toilet. Alternatively , sometimes in the Indian trains I deftly slip my underpants off in the cabin which makes life easier in the toilet. Yes definitely take your own paper and let the comedy begin.
Happy travels Paula

For night travel and traversing long tunnels this may come in handy:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/02/save-energy-with-glow-in-the-dark-toilet-paper.php

Haha! whatever will they come up with next?

In Istanbul this afternoon (swanking again, you see) a woman traveller and I got to exchanging our favourite toilet stories.
She managed to drop her new mobile phone down the hole a year or so back, while squatting.
Moral of the story - empty your back pockets before emptying your bladder.

Don't you find that whenever you meet up with other travellers in out-of-the-way places the topic of conversation usually, if not always, turns to internal plumbing problems?

And go_2: way to avoid the snow! :-)

One of my most memorable moments was travelling with canayjun on the canadian train from winnipeg to churchill. I was in the upper bunk in a section and the thing sways like anything because of the terrible line. I practically had to hang myself in the corridor to get down to go to the loo in the first place. Once there if you could hold on well enough things weren't too bad. I have been in many positions and conditions on and off trains and in the end well if you have got to go well you have to go...............I have found this thread really amusing! If I ever went to churchill again on that train I might invest in one of those female urinal things!

LOL... well at least you didn't have to squat....

Can you get by train from the Middle East to Moscow?

There's nothing like a pooping thread to get the old people all stirred up, their bowels in an uproar so to say.

Halong Bay @ http://ckjournal.blogspot.com/

I was like you wife when I first started to travel in the 60's.
Toilets and washing clothes were of my biggest worries. Having traveled for eons, I no longer give it a second thought, as things just seem to work out. The key issue is, does you wife really want to travel? I did.

no very true canayjun but I have made up for that with my visits to uganda and their long drops. When I was at the orphanage i used a bucket at night instead of having to trek to the long drop at night and with about 200 others using the same one when you went you often had to hold your nose and position your feet carefully! My knees also developed strength in the four months or so, although I mostly still had to hold on to the walls!

Have her pack some toilet seat covers ( I get some from the local drug store or at the airports) and some hand sanitizer or wet-cloths. Other than taking sanitary precautions, there isn't much else she can do to avoid the situation. It's mind over matter.

Edited by: travelmaven

...well no - it's not MIND that's over the matter in question...

Tomkat - That's a good one. lol

Rick Steves has a recent article about finding and using toilets in Europe, but it also applies to areas outside of Europe: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/ricksteveseurope/2013729871_websteves21.html

My biggest beef about European toilets is that most of them require negotiating a steep staircase. When a knee problem makes negotiating stairs both slow and painful, this is simply not good enough. I rejoiced in a European tourist-oriented village when I found a diabled loo for a fellow-traveller whose knees are bad enough that she requires a wheely-walker, and can't even negotiate stairs painfully.

"Passengers will please refrain,
From flushing toilets on this train,
While standing in the station...we love you"

Hey! At least the girls get a toilet seat!

One reason I carry in day pack, a partial roll of tp, with the cardboard taken out.
Multipurpose.