Tibet tour prices

I have been looking into Tibet tours (from recommend operators here on TT) and are quoted insulting high prices (unjustified close to or equal prices for Bhutan).

Does anyone knows who is cashing in on these insane prices?

For that you are getting a private guide and driver. They need to be paid. If you go in a group of 4 it will be cheaper per person. If you go on a larger group tour then it is much cheaper.

Spinn Cafe in Lhasa has a run down of the tour costs: http://www.cafespinn.com/en/tibet/

Yes, it s true that some of the most recommended tour operators on TT are offering high prices.

Check out whether it is suggested by regular posters or not...Some of them are abusing their reputation!

The best thing is to send a proposed itinerary to each with details about dates, number of people, and other expectations you have. Then, see how quickly and completely they respond to your email.

Usually you may have a clear understanding with the price difference between offers. Make sure that their is no hidden fee and side business in your tour.

Quote on SPINCAFE:

Tour guide salary = RMB 250 * 10 days = RMB 2500 per person (in a 4-people group)
Permit(s) price = RMB 1200 per person
Entrance fees = Potala Y100, Sera Y55, Jokhang Y85, Norbulingka Y60, Drepung Y55, Namtso Y80, Tashilunpo Y55, Pelkhor Choede Y45, Tsong Burg Y60 = RMB 595 per person
Entrance fee of Everest Base Camp = Y400 for a 4-wheel car, or Y600 for a 6-wheel car, plus Y180 per each tourist (driver is free to enter, tour guide isn't free to enter) = RMB 1300 = RMB 325 (in a 4-person group)
Hotel price for 7 days in bigger towns = RMB 200 per double room per night * 7 nights = RMB 700 per person (in a 2-person or 4-person group)
Bed price for a night in Namtso Lake and Everest Base Camp = RMB 60 per bed per night * 2 nights = RMB 120 per person
Land cruiser for 5-day tour = RMB 1500 per day including driver's salary and everything related to the vehicle * 5 days = RMB 7500 = RMB 1875 per person (in a 4-person group)
Transportation from / to the airport = RMB 200 * 2 = RMB 100 in a 4-person group.
or Transportation from / to the train station = RMB 40 * 2 = RMB 20 in a 4-person group.
Express mail service from Lhasa to mainland China (for the permit) = RMB 26 per mail.
Express mail service from Lhasa to foreign country (for the permit) = RMB 120 per mail.
Service and tippings..... the price listed above has already given the tour agency quite some profit. So it's up to you to decide how much they charge for the service and tippings.

{The price for permit is not true! No agency provide permit only service.}

I think you will find that the price for the permit is fairly correct as part of the breakdown in their complete tour price. pazu of Spinn Cafe, who has been posting here for a long time doesnt seem to be the sort of person who would rip travellers off.

Does anyone knows who is cashing in on these insane prices?

I don't think you will find that any single person, agency or group that is making huge profits from travel to Tibet.

The reasons for the high costs are multiple but to pay a decent wage to the guide and driver, to cover the costs of wear and tear on the vehicle and the cost of petrol for the vehicle, the costs vary considerably depending upon where you travel. For example, if you were to stay only in Lhasa for 8 days that would cost much less than touring the country. And tours through the countryside will vary depending upon where you go and whether there is a need for additional permits.

Bottom line - no one is really making a huge profit.

Comparing costs of travel in Bhutan to travel in Tibet is somewhat akin to comparing apples and oranges as the particulars are different.

Ruth

I have recently been to Tibet with Snowliontours and at arrival I discovered (together with my travel group,we were 4people) that the work in Tibet is done by another to us unknown local organisation who (according to what I understood from some things said along the way) get little paid for their work and that means not a significant amount of what we pay to the agency. The one who brings in the tourists keeps the most money and that are the one's advertising or getting advertised here.
The local organisation hoops for you to expand or change your plans on the spot so they can earn some more. That's the same for the guide and the driver. They get paid if there is work and otherwise they have nothing. So if you arrange something with them, even better, because the office people stay outside the deal.

I met another group who had booked with another organisation and in Lhasa was met by a guide who wasn't from the same organisation. They were not at all happy with the guide and didn't know what to do about it.
Pazu is the only one giving insight in the costs of the whole thing and if I would go again I for sure would ask him for a quote.
Looking at the people in Tibet one can clearly see that the ones catering for tourists earn much more money than the average Tibetan doing business with the locals, not to talk about the ones just living from the land and the animals. The drivers and guides also get all kind of services and goods for free just because they bring in tourists. However this happens everywhere, but in this rather poor country one can only notice this places them in a easier situation than the rest of the people.

Yes there is money going to other pockets, because people in Lhasa earn less than people in tourist spots in the mainland, and outside Lhasa, Tibetans earn even less. In Tibet the hotels are more expensive and the quality is much less than in mainland China. Food is also more expensive than in the mainland and often van bad quality, so you can only wander why you are getting so little for your money. I also discovered that western tourists pay more than Chinese tourists in some places like hotels and restaurants.
Chinese tourists are often in a package trip and their guides see to it that things are well arranged for their clients. Western people can also buy this packages. Chinese are most welcoming to western foreigners in their group. They do fit in some visits to shops but people are not obligated to buy anything or go to the shops. However it's hard to find these tour organisations if you don't know anyone who speaks chinese and wants to help you with some search.

hello
the price depend on where you want to go,and how long you will stay,so you should focus on the tour quality,not the lowest price,and the travel time is aslo important,for example the price in nov is cheaper than aug.wish you have a nice trip.

Thanks to you all for your answers, especially lamania for quotes from SPINCAFE.

The reason for the comparison to Bhutan tours (beside the two being very similar) is that Bhutan is normally considered as one of the most expensive countries to tour independently/small group, but apparently Tibet has become a close number two.

The thing I find so frustrating is the fact that it will actually be cheaper to join a group from a travel agency in my home country, than going by myself from China... it must be the only place in the world where this is true.

So sorry for my sour grapes, but for me Tibet is just not be worth the high cost considering it might be companied with a commission-seeking Chinese guide breathing down my neck.

#5. My friend who went with Snowlion a few months said the same thing. They were greeted by a guide from another company.

#7, if you use one of the agencies which is either Tibetan based or Tibetan staffed ( like Sims, Tibetan Connections, Windhorse Adventure Tours) then you shouldnt get a commission seeking Chinese guide breathing down your neck.
#5, have yet to see a Chinese tour group with Europeans as well.

#7 So sorry for my sour grapes, but for me Tibet is just not be worth the high cost considering it might be companied with a commission-seeking Chinese guide breathing down my neck.

Totally agree.

We came back only a week ago from Tibet with SnowLion tours. We had a very good Tibetan guide. And he told us that most of the guides that are travelling through Tibet are Tibetan because Chinese don't speak Tibetan and it is almost impossible to travel through the country side. Because the Tibetan don't help the Chinese.
But it is thrue that the prices are quit high. But I always think you forget the money but not the experience.

I just saw this post and thought I would add my thoughts to it. In case you don't know anything about me, I have lived on the Tibetan Plateau for going on 9 years. Four of those years were spent working with an NGO on the northern Tibetan Plateau, while 4 more years have been spent working in tourism. For 3 years I owned and managed a company that arranged budget and mid-range tours all across Tibet. For the past year, I have worked doing high-end, photography tours in Tibet. So my opinion on this post comes from first-hand experience....

I always tell people that Tibet is one of the most expensive tourist destinations in Asia. Since all foreign travelers have to travel by private vehicle and must have a guide, travel in Tibet is going to be far more expensive than most other areas of Asia. It pretty much is true that Tibet is the second most expensive travel destination in Asia behind Bhutan in terms of travel expense within the country.

So who is cashing in on the price of the tours? A lot of people firmly believe that it is the Chinese government. Well, that is not entirely true. If you use a local Tibetan owned agency rather than a large Chinese government owned agency, very little of your tourism money will go to the government Only the price of the travel permits will go to the government and these are actually quite inexpensive. Tour guides in Tibet are paid between Y200 and Y300 per day (some higher end tours may charge more because the guide has more knowledge of the area and about Buddhism, history, etc). So if you book a 10 day tour of Tibet, between $300 and $400 of your tour will go to the guide.

Train tickets to Lhasa from Xining are around Y523 for a hard sleeper (more from Chengdu, Beijing, Shanghai, etc). During the summer, getting train tickets are extremely difficult to get so travel agencies have to pay a surcharge to large government travel agencies or to the black market vendors who have illegal inside access to train tickets. Travel agencies have no option but to pay a surcharge of Y200 to Y400 per ticket. Flights to Lhasa from Chengdu are rarely discounted and normally are around $215 one-way. The cost of transportation to Lhasa is usually included in the overall tour price.

Food prices in Tibet are considerably more than in other regions of China. I always recommend people to get their meals on their own while in Tibet. You almost always will save money if you do your meals on your own rather than have a travel agency include them in your tour price.

Most of the travel agencies that I know charge a reasonable amount of "booking fees" to customers. These booking fees are the price you pay for the agency to arrange everything for you. This includes answering all of your emails or phone calls, filling out your permit application, sending your permit application to the Tibet Tourism Bureau, helping you build an itinerary, researching your route (especially if it is an off-the-beaten-path itinerary), arranging drivers and guides and making hotel reservations. Plenty of times I would only make Y1500 on a booking fee for spending weeks on a single group and answering dozens of phone calls and emails. For only a little over $200, this was barely worth my time to arrange the tour! A lot of work can go into arranging a tour in Tibet!

Transportation costs are the bulk of a tour price. This has always been the case in places where you have to take private vehicles rather than using public buses. The vehicles typically used in Tibet for tours are full-size Toyota Land Cruisers. In Asia, particularly in China, cars hold a high resale value. I have looked into buying used Land Cruisers in decent condition that are 10 years old and they still sell for $16,000 to $19,000. This is a huge sum of money for most Tibetans, and really most people in China. The cost of the vehicle, gasoline and the driver is why tours in Tibet are not cheap. Most drivers don't even make all that much money. A typical salary for a Tibetan driver is between Y1800 and Y2500 per month. Toyota Land Cruisers have 8 cylinder engines that go through a lot of gasoline. Just the gasoline charges on a trip to Kailash can be between Y4800 and Y6000, depending on the exact route you are taking. The road conditions in much of centra Tibet are improving making it possible to use vans that can seat 6 or 8 passengers rather than Land Cruisers which can only really hold 4 passengers. However, it will still be a while unti road conditions are good everywhere in Tibet so that more economical vehicles can be used.

So who is cashing in on tours? For the most part, no one is. I know many Tibetans who own their own travel agencies and very, very few of them are what I would consider rich. It is just that travel in Tibet is expensive...permits, tickets to Lhasa, food, guide, booking fee, vehicle charges, gasoline, driver, etc...this all adds up.

I can give you the personal email of my tibetan guide in 2009 or the contact info of the travel agency I contracted. You can ask them for prices. It might be cheaper, I don't really now. But at least I trust both of them ;)

You can write me here: alfonsopara@ gmail. com

I agree with you, Losang.

Hey guys!! how are you? just wondering if you can help me out here.
I will be in Tibet in spring 2012 , and it will just be my Fiance and I. i don't mind pairing up with others, but was just wondering how much a 4WD & driver & tour guide would cost a day?? if anyone knows???
let me know!!
thanks!!!

Chouden, I would suggest you to read here: http://www.cafespinn.com/en/tibet/ I have put a referenced cost of some typical itineraries, with a break down of the cost of each item.