RIP-OFF IRELAND

Thoughts please....

Here ya go Carraig ;)

One of my PET HATES as well....drives me absolutely nuts!!!!

Well, one of my best friend's moved over there last Jan (got offered a good job) and is moving back here next Mon because it's just too expensive to live over there, even with a well paying job. Make of it what you will. Plus she said the Irish are unfriendly, make no effort to get to know you, like to socialise in their own small cicrles, and the whole country is like a third world one, for instance no water bill because the water is so crap you can't even drink it! But that's just one person's (and note NOT my) opinion.

ireland is expensive but its like anywhere else if you shop around you can get bargains. us irish can be a little insular .and ireland does have some problems with infastructure but saying that i am a very patriotic irishman and could never live anywhere else

"some problems with infrastructure"???? I think we have a lot of problems with infrastructure....for the amount of money that was flowing around during the celtic tiger, the government's done sweet F all with it....national roads covered in potholes, it's like a developing country in parts. The money isn't spent equally, fairly, some areas get all the money while some parts of the country suffer!!!

As for prices, it's an absolute joke! And thank god for the euro, because we can know see HOW much we're actually being ripped off. Although noone's going to do anything about it. What drives me nuts, in clothes shops you see the prices (IN EURO) of clothes in say Spain/Italy/Germany etc and they're a lot cheaper than they are here. Even sterling prices (when converted) is cheaper. People say it's because our wages are higher, that's why everything's so much expensive...but it's so not true! Salaries in Britain are higher than here but their cost of living is much lower!!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhh

Well, why don't you all move out til scarcity value drives my wages up? ;))

Is anyone ever happy with their own country?
Yes,Ireland is expensive,but I still think it's a great little place to live.

Grand place if we could roof it...

Best thing to do is run for public office, we Irish rarely if ever stand up to the amazing levels of corruption and ineptitude in government, much more fun to sit and grumble while sipping back several very expensive beers pulled by poorly trained barstaff with limited English.

So "Paddy le B for Taoiseach. Not much will change but if you were running I'd vote for you!"

I've got my vote.

I'd vote for you!!!! :) A load of monkeys could do a better job than that lot up there now! haha

...and if elected I promise to staff my cabinet just that!

12 chimps, 12 ounces of coke and 12 PC's.... best government think-tank in recent memory

hahahaha you'd make a fantastic government! remember to use the government jet to pick up your coke!!!

you mean my Swedish Lingerie Model conveyance unit?

??

Rip-off on a more tourist point of view:

At the moment I'm updating several of my travel books, part of it is to update prices for accommodation, restaurants, admission fees to museums and other things.
I just finished the book on Ireland, before that the one on Berlin and now one on the German Baltic coast. Been there this year, too. In between I did a magazine part on London. I mention this to show that all the comparison is within European countries.

London is quite an expensive place, and compared to Berlin a true rip-off. But Dublin comes closer to London pricewise than to Berlin, in some cases Dublin is even more expensive, especially when you compare the quality of, say, restaurants.

Now the Baltic coast is of outstanding beauty and traditionally a tourist area and hence prone to overpricing. I couldn't believe the prices of B&Bs and holiday apartments! A regular B&B by the sea near a beach charges about 30 to 50 Euro for a double, more remote places are even cheaper. A holiday apartment is about 40 to 60 Euro per day, and you can eat in a moderate restaurant for about 10 Euro or even less. Drinks are delightfully cheap!

I always wondered why prices in Ireland are so high. Somebody once told me that most things have to be imported, Ireland being an island. Rubbish! Food for example is cheaper in the North, and the UK is an island, too. It's the monopole most companies have - and the certainty that Irish people don't complain. Competition is only a recent occurence, in the food sector partly thanks to Lidl and Aldi. Not that Dunnes or others are concerned...

Then there are the essential household suppliers. Eircom (the Irish telecom) is a pain in the backside with charges that are completely over the limit and bad service on top. Broadband isn't avaliable everywhere, and smaller companies who go for the rural areas charge you an arm and a leg. ESB (electricity) is overpriced and way behind standard. Powercuts happen several times a year (in rural areas at least).
Water supply is a mess in certain areas (think Galway, think Ennis) where nobody feels responsible to renew and clean the supply. Okay, water is free in Ireland, but I'd rather pay a little money and can be sure to have clean water.
Tradesmen are the most obvious rip-offs. Had a plumber recently for a problem I couldn't fix myself. He worked on it for ten minutes (after I prepared everything) and charged me 100 Euros (no new parts were needed).

And for the insurance companies - don't get me started. From motor insurance to house insurance, it's a complete rip-off! For example, thatched cottages are declared heritage now, but there is not one Irish insurance company who would insure them - thatch is too "dangerous" they say! I had to go to Lloyds of London to get one and they charge me a second mortgage.

As for the health service - I still go to dentists and doctors when in Germany. It's way cheaper, even considering the flight. Apart from the general misery in Irish health services ...

I recently checked house prices on the net (late nights when bored) and found thatched cottages near the German Baltic (in the back of beyond) for under 100 000 Euros, some houses even for about 40-60 000 Euros. In my neighbourhood (in the back of beyond in Ireland) there is a tiny thatched cottage on the market - 265 000 Euros. No comment.

Still, I wouldn't want to move elsewhere, I love to live in Ireland because there is more to life than money. Would be nice though to have some. Remind me to play the lotto ...

beg pardon.. typo...government jet = convoyance unit

Ah ha get ya now paddy eile.

Carraig i totally agree with you. It is a joke. But there's not much you can do in this country for free...is there?? I completly agree that money is not the be all and end all, but in a country like Ireland, i sometimes think it is, because there are thousands of people out there, who can't afford to do the things they want, because it's just too god damn expensive!!!!

agreed Paddy PP and Carraig... I love Eire but on principle alone I wonder if I can live out my days there, never mind the prices.

I travel a bit and a few of my previous jobs kept me abroad for extended periods. I followed with interest the development of the so called 'Celtic Tiger' and indeed when I returned home was delighted to earn money I never thought possible in Ireland as did many friends from home and abroad. Alas I also noticed the levels of disillusionment in the country was at an all time high. Big salaries/wages but yet less disposable income.

But sure when Im in office I dont need to worry about that.. .. you looking for a cushy number Paddy PP? 'Jobs for the boys' (and girls) you know!

Just on the paying more for clothes than elsewhere - AFAIK it's only Spain that pays a cheaper euro price. If you look at the tags you should see that all other euro countries pay the same. Spain have less tax on clothes which is why they are cheaper - it's nothing to do with the shops.

That said, we do seem to get stiffed on the sterling conversion when you make those comparisons!

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>That said, we do seem to get stiffed on the sterling conversion when you make those comparisons! <hr></blockquote>

Distibution costs to Ireland make a big diff from UK v pricing in the UK.

Dynamic Currency Exchange is the rip off I hate where they convert your bill into whatever currency your CC is and tell you they doing you a favour by effectively adding 4% to the bill.

it's not just spain, italy and germany have cheaper clothes as well. And i really don't think it's down to distribution costs. For example, Zara a spanish clothes shop here in Ireland, every single item is AT LEAST €10 more expensive here than it is in Spain, it's not the distribution cost, because the profits they're making from at least €10 extra on every single item in the shop is massive!!! They transport the goods in bulk, therefore it's lowering the distribution cost of each item!!! I don't know if i'm making proper sense there, but you get the drift!

Talking about distribution costs (comparing the two countries I know best):

Bushmills is cheaper in Germany than in Ireland. Kerrygold butter is cheaper in Germany than in Ireland. Australian wine (now there are distribution costs!) or Guinness is cheaper in Germany than in Ireland. And that's even if you abstract the VAT in both cases.

Doesn't make sense really.

Yeah if you look at Lidl, they seel exactly the same vodka here that they sell in Germany, it's €5 in Germany €15 here!!!!!!

Christ stop, Im swinging between anger and depression.... EUR 15 huh? gimme two

Carraig says: "Drinks are delightfully cheap!"

I don't think bar prices are cheap nearly anywhere in the Republic of Ireland. What do you mean? One advantage of living north of the border in the U.K. is that drinks are a little cheaper here than Southern England and noticeably cheaper than London and Republic of Ireland.

You also say, 30 to 50 Euros for a double guest room is expensive, when that is one of the best prices I've heard for a room anywhere in Western Europe for a while. 40 Euros is around 14 pounds per person per night. I think you must have found the one cheap guest house in Ireland and decided to call it expensive.

And Ireland is celebrated for its clean, lovely drinking water. Yes, from taps as well as famous brands in bottles.

Daaahling, I compared Ireland with Germany, and the above mentioned prices were for Germany not Ireland!
Drinks are delightfully cheap in GERMANY compared to Ireland. It's helpful to read a post before answering it.

And Ireland is celebrated for its clean, lovely drinking water? Go ask the Galwegians, they are going to laugh their heads off ...

We can't drink the water in Clonmel either. Been like that for the last 2 months and no word of when it's going to stop. Doesn't bother me I just boil it, but eldery people and young people have to be so careful. I just joined the gym in our local hotel, 600 euros for the year, all money up front, no chance of leaving the contract early when I will envitably have to move out of the area. There is just no competion. There is a huge sign on the way into the pool warning people not to drink the shower or pool water because of the contamination (not that I make a habit of drinking pool water you understand , but it's sometimes unavoidable)

To Pepi (quoted below) sorry to hear about your friends experience below I think she was very unlucky what part of Ireland did she go to? Irish guys are usually particularly friendly to foreign girls : ) What does water being crap mean? Water in Ireland is generally regarded as being very healthy I drink it all the time and tap water never tastes like much anywhere.

Sometimes the country can be a bit clicky but I think that happens in most places she could have joined a social club for example (not criticising just mentioning the possibilities there are so many in this age). The one thing I would say is that transport infrastructure is dreadful outside Dublin and traffic is manic in Dublin and I have advised people before not to rent a car in Ireland is they're from a country with good roads as they will be shocked! Just my two cents.

"Well, one of my best friend's moved over there last Jan (got offered a good job) and is moving back here next Mon because it's just too expensive to live over there, even with a well paying job. Make of it what you will. Plus she said the Irish are unfriendly, make no effort to get to know you, like to socialise in their own small cicrles, and the whole country is like a third world one, for instance no water bill because the water is so crap you can't even drink it! But that's just one person's (and note NOT my) opinion. "

Irish income tax is lower than the European average, something the whingers overlook when talking about the so-called lack of disposable income in Ireland.

As for our roads, they've improved an awful lot and are much better than the ones north of the border. Cheaper petrol too!

As for drinking water, we drink it from the tap (apart from recent events in Galway) unlike many of our European neighbours. It tastes good too.

We're attracting immigrants from all over the world. We must be doing something right. 20 years ago the country was dead and everyone wanted to leave. Some people are never satisfied.

i wouldn't completly agree with what you've said there celticrover...roads may be improving in certain areas. but still here in the west, we've got some national primary roads covered in potholes!!

yeah there are a lot of immigrants here. do you ever speak to them? are they happy? i know a lot of indians and banglasdeshis here, and they are far from happy. they're here to work their ass of for a couple years, make some money and go home. they're working 16 hours a day trying to make money! i really think some people need to take their rosed tinted sun glasses off!!!

some people are never happy. Ireland is expensive because the country is booming, wages are high, therefore cost of living is high. 40 years ago the country was in economic turmoil but things were very cheap. You can not have high wages and plentiful jobs and a low cost of living, its one or the other. I know which one I prefer......

I agree that some people are never happy, but you have to agree that a lot more people tend to see things more rosy than they are.

There was no boom and no high wages when I moved to Ireland, but the rip-off was blooming even then. Poor old Ireland was so expensive that I first moved to Belfast because it was way cheaper.
It got worse and worse the more money was available. Everybody seems to think: let's get an even bigger piece of he cake. Unfortunately the service didn't get any better, in some cases even worse. I.e tradesmen now can't even be bothered to turn up for smaller household repair or maintenance work. When they do after much begging and phoning they do more often than not a bad job and ask for a fortune.
The pure and utter greediness is what angers me.

Roads might improve, but does the health service in rural areas? All the new roads are around Dublin are leading to Dublin and the capital gets bigger and shinier, but can anyone afford a decent flat or house? Rents are ridicilous, and there is no proper regulation for the quality of accommodation or the tenants. The houses in new estates are so poorly built, that you spent a fortune to heat them (no insulation whatsoever) and you can hear your next door neighbour slurp his tea. But they cost as much as a small palace elsewhere.

However, as I said in a previous post in this thread, I love to live here and adjusted to the rip-off - but not without a fight with each and everyone who tries to rip me off. Believe me, sometimes it works ;-)))

And for the tap water: I'm lucky to get mine from a well and it's fine. But the water in some towns and cities is occassionally very suspicious. For years now I hear or read stories about e-coli or other disgusting stuff in drinking water here or there. The water might taste fine, but what's the point when you get sick after consuming it?

I've written two travel books on Ireland and after living here for so long I simply refuse to paint the country I truly love in forty shades of green smelling all of roses. I owe it to the readers who don't need any surprises and disappointments, and I owe it to this country which should wake up from this money making frenzy and instead should reconsider what it could do for her own people and their needs, as well for the tourism industry, which is one of the main indigenious industries and important moneywise. The other indigenious one is the building industry, and that will come to a considerable slow-down pretty soon. Well, the boom will eventually fade into nothing, it already started ...

#rant over# - for the time being :-)

niamh i think you're on another planet. Our minimum wage is not much higher than those in Europe. In Spain a waitress/barperson earns about €7.50 an hour (cash)...now how can their prices be so much lower than ours????

the country is no longer booming. it's all being covered up for a couple years now, making us think it's still booming. the government's pre-election promise to cut taxes again was a farse, and they knew it at the time, because we simply can't afford it!

as for your statement about plentiful jobs. it's a load of bull. i graduated from uni 2 years ago and cannot find a decent job in line with my degree. and i am not the only one. i have two friends, business graduates and they can't find work. AND i know of at least five science graduates (and apparently there's so many jobs in science) who can't find work!!!!!!!!! then people look at us like we've got six heads when we say we can't find "proper" jobs as they like to call them

If the Indians and Bangladeshis aren't happy in Ireland they can always return home. I can't imagine that life is a bed of roses in Bangladesh, they probably work 16 hours a day for a few euro over there.

You're always free to look for work abroad if you don't like it here paddypackpacker. Ireland is by no means perfect but not many countries are.

Many Irish people want high wages and Polish beer prices. We can't have our cake and eat it!

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>the so-called lack of disposable income in Ireland.<hr></blockquote> - ask around man. For many people in Ireland the Celtic Tiger was just a phrase, nothing more.

Your point on immigration, which is it? <blockquote>Quote
<hr>We're attracting immigrants from all over the world. We must be doing something right<hr></blockquote> or <blockquote>Quote
<hr>If the Indians and Bangladeshis aren't happy in Ireland they can always return home. I can't imagine that life is a bed of roses in Bangladesh, they probably work 16 hours a day for a few euro over there.<hr></blockquote>

So your saying that the Irish economy is somewhat more attractive than the developing world? Sure who wouldn't be satisfied with that?

Paddypackpacker, excellent insight into the situation! Celtic Tiger, my donkey!
I see people in my area trying to sell their houses because they can't afford them anymore. But no buyer in sight. And I see people trading in their last year cars for this year ostentatious people carriers and SUV's, mostly upwardly mobile mums who drive their kids to school and back, do a bit of shopping. Mostly expensive stuff that doesn't demand home-cooking anymore. And getting into trouble to keep up their credit card bills. These are the people who give the impression of affluent Ireland, but they will have an awful awakening in not so far a future.

I've read a survey recently that Ireland has the highest personal debts rate in the world per capita, it goes into billions (Euros) countrywide. Don't kow the exact numbers right now, but think of 4 million people in Ireland with billions of debts countrywide, billions up to the receding hairline of the Celtic Tiger.

And yes, there are vacancies for minor jobs, so far, but I know a lot of qualified people who look for ages for adequate jobs. If you work in a minimum wage job, there is no chance to get a career, a place of your own or a life. I know a woman who works days in a shop and nights in a pub, just to pay the rent and the bills and education for the kids and to support herself. But no life, no holidays, no computer to rant about her gorgeous travels.

Ach, the myth of the Celtic Tiger!

You mean the Celtic Whinger! People like you are never happy and fail to understand the law of supply and demand. You're looking for a Utopia that doesn't exist anywhere in the world. I agree that some things about Ireland suck such as the weather and the ugly people but these things are outside the control of the Irish people. I also accept that our public transport and health services are poor by European standards. However we pay lower income taxes than our European neighbours and would have to pay more tax to fund a better health and transport system.

People have been talking about bubbles bursting since 2000. These same pessimists will be proven correct eventually. After all a broken clock tells the correct time twice a day!

Ireland in the 1980s was a real shit-hole when one needed to have contacts to find a job. When I was a student in 1986 the only part time job I was offered was the late shift at Mc Donald's for something like £1 an hour. There wasn't even a mimimum wage back then! Unemployment was close to 20% as were interest rates. The North of Ireland was in chaos and almost every family was affected by emigration. In those "good old days" almost everyone was a loser (apart from Charlie Haughey). We've come a long way since then. Of course there have been losers in the "Celtic Tiger" but there are losers all over the world. Life isn't fair! If you're not happy with Ireland you don't have to stay! There are so many wonderful countries in the world but once you scratch the surface you'll see the warts and all elsewhere too.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>I also accept that our public transport and health services are poor by European standards. However we pay lower income taxes than our European neighbours and would have to pay more tax to fund a better health and transport system<hr></blockquote>

You sure about that? You don't think mismanagement comes into the equation at all?

While we're on the subject of taxes many of the 'super rich' in Ireland pay no taxes at all (and I'm not talking about the exemption for artists) Life isn't fair, indeed it isn't, but do you think that is?

I live in Northern ireland and the town I live in the water is clean enough to drink but tastes rotten unless you add something like fruit juice or diluting orange to it. As well as prices, we also have to wait longer for things to be released. If a new product comes out then Northern ireland is last to get it. The only exception being films (both cinema and on DVD) or music albums.

Mismanagement of course comes into the equation as well as raising income taxes. Low taxes = Poor services, you can't have your cake and eat it!

I agree with you about the super rich. We also have a lot of overpaid "benchmarked" public servants who shuffle papers from side to side.

Why are you still in Ireland paddypackpacker? It makes no sense since you are obviously angry and frustrated. Don't make such sweeping statements like "almost everyone" is still a loser. You yourself are the loser! Ireland isn't good enough for someone of your incredible gifts. Just buy a one way ticket anywhere and make your fortune elsewhere!

Public sector works earn more than private sector employees, and that's before taking their generous pensions, holidays and job security into account. That's a fact - not an opinion!

For the record, and for those not in the know: Bertie is Bertie Ahern, the Irish prime-minister, an old charmer and crook who pretends to be a global player but turns out to be such a corrupt and selfish - ah I don't know what.... another pet hate ...

Why thank you Carraig. NOT ALL PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYEES EARN MORE!!!! As i said i am on minimum wage. I am STUCK here, because my degree is useless, well in this "2 years experience necessary for a graduate job obsessed country". I am saving money to get out, don't you worry celticrover and once i'm out, that's it. It's just that i don't earn enough money to save fast enough to get out!!!!!

Celticrover sounds like one of Bertie's brainwashed followers there.....

More Americanised I would have thought. The spead of multinationals in Ireland has brought with them some excellent ideas, processes etc but alas has brought the dog eat dog mentality very much to the fore. If you dont make as much money as me youre a 'loser', dont agree with me..'loser'

Live in a nice semi d on the southside, drive an SUV for 2 hours to cover the 45 minute walk to work, take 2 foreign holidays per year where you desperately try to avoid other tourists and use Ciao instead of goodbye and all this is funded on credit? WINNER!

hahaaha i love it Paddy! Or buy the "investment" property in some resort in Spain and hang with all the other actual losers just like you, pretending they're all so la-di-dah cultured, but really spend their time immersing themselves in fake Irish culture and Irish pubs abroad!!!!

Having just got back from another weekend in Ireland, and spending it in Mullingar, I think that the prices in rural/semi rural Ireland are comparative to London. Each time I go it shocks me how expensive it is as a country.

There are lots of things wrong with Ireland but in fairness there are things wrong with every country. Ireland is expensive to live in and we would say that the standard of living is very poor but in France they have a (comparatively) good standard of living, high taxes and high unemployment. Same story in Italy if you listen to Italians moan about their country you would think its an awful place to live but we go there for our holidays and we marvel at the standard of living, the good food, the (comparatively) cheap prices. Don't get me wrong, I feel the same about the health service, the shambolic government that the foolish Irish voting public keep re-electing, corruption etc etc.

To the people that said Irish people stick to their own groups - what do you expect? Did you really think that Ireland would have a red carpet rolled out for you and a bunch of random people waiting at the airport who would become your new friends? If you think Ireland is cliquey then go to Uk, Spain, Italy, France, Australia and see how you get on there.

In essence we are no better or no worse than other countries but our habit of nation bashing gives us something to talk about when the weather is sunny and dry (because that's what we talk about when its raining)

Listen to the inappropriately-named sillyirishlady mr paddypackpacker. She has a sense of perspective. You, on the other hand, are just a frustrated angry, young man.

Great post #50

#51... surely we need more angry young men, student radicals etc.

Change is rarely handed down from on high but is gained by upsetting the status quo.

Celticrover...i'm not a "frustrated angry, young man"....I am a woman!!!!!!!!!!! And i'm not angry, i just have an open perspective on things. You're being completly fooled by this myth floating around the country, while i KNOW it's all fake, a little web the government has spun around us and you will see come December and the new budget mahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Its good for a session and a bit of fiddlydee music. The best St pat day is always had outside of Ireland.

You don't know anything paddy. You're just a cynical begrudger who wants Ireland to return to the bad old days of the 1980s.

I live in Australia. I moved here from Ireland in 1986. I have never been back. I remember it was cold a lot. I've actually recently moved from Mackay, which is really booming, to the Gold Coast, which is also booming, but in a different way. But the GC boom gets more press. Now, Mackay, that's really booming. My son, aged 16, was lured to play football at a school/football academy with the promise, "If you play football for us, we'll get you any apprenticeship you want". He had already indicated that he was interested in an apprenticeship. As good as their word, they organised it for him. Mackay is a young man's town - plenty of high-paying skilled manual work. The weekend before we left we entertained a truckdriver neighbour of ours to a barbecue. He was bragging about his bank balance. He works at the mines. He said, "I rang my bank and asked them how come I don't seem to get 'preferred client' treatment any more?" The bank manager told him "preferred status" now applied to account holders with $500,000 in their accounts, up from $250,000. "Well, why didn't you say so?", he said and plumped in another $250,000. He drove a schoolbus for years before driving trucks at the mines. It's not pleasant work, but four days on, four days off - which he gets to spend in Mackay, away from the mines might make it bearable.

Because of the drought, our food prices are rising. But since the present government brought in a GST (similar to VAT), they have successfully hidden the real consumer price index rises. The focus isn't on essential, everyday items that average people buy, but also takes into account the price of new cars, repayments for same, et cetera, and with a rising dollar, the price of cars has been falling. But real prices for everyday items has been increasing rapidly even in their artificially controlled low interest rate environment.

I don't feel broke, but I do feel worried about the future, and having sufficient superannuation, et cetera, to enjoy a reasonable standard of living in retirement. Since moving here I have been free of the worry about how to pay my bills. If I wanted a brand new car, I could go out and buy one and pay it off in two years easy, even while paying for a daughter to attend uni.

Are faraway fields greener? Maybe. I lived in Mackay for a long time, and found it teeming with loutish miners. They seemed to believe their capacity to earn a higher income entitled them to flout their sense of their own prestige, and to have it acknowledged by lesser mortals. I guess you could say that miners make other normal-earning people in Mackay feel lifestyle envy and insecurity? So worship of money at the expense of cultural values isn't the answer either.

well you can buy a 2-bed apartment in Manly with sea view for $860,000 (€546,000) ...if you want a 2 bed apartment in Ireland, let's say Howth, that's comparable to Manly, it's €700,000 (€1,100,000), that's twice the price. I know where i'd rather be living.....

well i say they're comparable...but not really, just in the sense that they're both kind of considered relatively "exclusive" or expensive areas...

oh I dunno... all those beautiful tanned people running around in good moods because of the nice weather.... you'd be sick of it in a week PaddyPP

no i'd love it! i'm just turning bitter and twisted now being at home for too long!!! i need to get outta hereeeeeeeee

Go for it PaddyPP! Life is far to short to spend any of it being unhappy

yeah!!!!!!!!! i'll just blank out this past year :) clock is ticking and departure is getting closer! ;)