Rights of Canadian Immigration Officers

Arrived at Toronto International Airport last night from a 3 week trip to Hong Kong and Thailand. I just had one carry on bag because I've been there often and don't really need to bring anything back. Plus, laundry is so cheap there I only carry a few changes of clothes. Anyrate, at Immigration i get grilled on way I only have one bag if I've been gone for 3 weeks. Over and over she asked me this question. She wants to know why I go to Hong Kong and Thailand so often. I answer over and over that i go because (a) I like it there and (b) because I can afford to travel alot. I have no problem being asked questions on my return as I have nothing to hide.

Well, she sends me off to the back room for inspection. I'm tired and want to get home and watch the superbowl but still have no problem with this. This inspection then asks me the same question over and over. Why do I only have one small carry on bag? Why do you go to Thailand and Hong Kong so often? I'm a bit irritatied by still have no real cause for objection. She then starts to go through my bag. My dirty laundry, shaving kit etc. No problem. I have a personally notebook that I take with me to keep track of costs and hotels etc. She reads that. OK.
Now here is where I have the problem. She opens up my digital camera and goes through ALL of the digital pictures. There is nothing but pictures of food, beaches, dancers, and some pictures of my white legs and gut sitting on the beach.

So, the question is: Does she have the right to do that?? Seems to me to be an invasion of privacy. What if I did have personal pictures of my wife or girlfriend? Of what if someone has their wedding and honeymoon pictures on their camera? Seems to me to be an unwarrented abuse of power. Anyone know what rights you have with an issue like this?

My guess is they/she did have that right as Immigration have sweeping powers over people being processed. As for the images on your camera, I would say that if they were sensitive one should email them before travelling and delete the memory card.

Answer is yes. They have the right. They can read every letter in your personal journal, examine any tourist brochure, admission ticket, look through every picture, video, document, etc on your computer. But they can't seize it unless it contravenes the law. They can even tear your car apart at a land border crossing and not put it back together again if they can justify it.(suspecting drugs, etc) They can seize images they deem to be indecent although they have to be able to defend the action in court.

Returning from Thailand in general is going to put anyone single, but especially men under secondary inspection or at least increases the likelihood of it happening. This has been going on for 20 years. They consider Thailand to be a 'drug country' and a potential location for pedophiles to travel. (even though the vast majority of single male travellers to Thailand are not drug smugglers or pedophiles.) Returning with carryon only increases the chances they will pull you aside. It seems to only happen on direct flights from Thailand. For instance if you spent exactly the same amount of time in Thailand, but then went to India for a couple of weeks and came back direct from there, chances are you wouldn't go through the same secondary inspection.

If you feel that this is happening to you 'every' time you come back, you can ask for a supervisor or manager and voice a complaint. I'm not sure that anything happens if you do this other than that your time in secondary inspection is prolonged even further.

There are other levels of inspection that involve nudity and rubber gloves, so although you might think looking at the pictures on your camera is an invasion, it can get worse. Just remember that this customs inspector (or whatever they call themselves these days) is nobody you know, and probably doesn't care 2 craps about what's on your camera as long as it doesn't breach the law.

They've gone through my bags on almost every return visit from Thailand, reading with interest my tourist brochures, examining personal toiletry items and asking questions. One thing they have yet to go through is two or three day old damp swimwear that I didn't have time to dry out before travelling.

I know they have to ask "why do you go to Thailand so often", but I always wonder what do they think people are going to say? Because I need to pick up a heroin shipment every 18 months?

with the new high profile cases of sex abuse in S/E Asia, the answer to your question should be obvious.
you may have fit the 'suspect' profile. and of course lots of the abuse is recorded, thus the check of your digiitals.

A few years ago I flew into Toronto from Frankfurt and the immigration guy asked me several times if I had any cheese. I kept answering that I had some chocolate, but no cheese. He just kept asking for cheese. My solution has been to fly into anywhere but Toronto. The immigration people in other cities seem a little more reasonable.

Thanks for the replies. Well, except for the one about the boys.
I guess as a single male going to Thailand I MUST be a sex offender. As I said, there was nothing in my camera of interest. It just seems to me that this is a system that is open to abuse. I came imagine some of the immigration officers just having a look at what's on peoples camera because of the voyeur factor.

just had an interesting experience coming back from cuba.

I just got a new 48 page passport (in anticipation of a big round the world trip) i've used it a couple of times to go to new york and montreal but this was the first international trip so it doesn't yet have any stamps.

Coming back into toronto, the immigration officer wanted to know what i do for a living (writer) and why i had a big passport. I said I plan to travel a lot. No harm no foul. But I found it odd that they would ask why I had a big passport.

that's all.

I always try to avoid female imigration/customs officials if possible. I don't know why, but it always seems 10x the hassle. Just my personal experience.

you only have to answer direct questions (eg Which countries did you visit? what do you do for a living, etc) not vague, rhetorical questions (eg " it must be nice to travel so much", or "why do you go to Thailand so much?") these I reply to with a shrug of my shoulders because there is no answer.

I always try to answer in the least number of words.

You must be a little confused OP, since when you speak to the Immigration officer, you have not yet gotten your luggage, and he or she would not look at it in any case........
Either the Immigration person smelled something wrong about you and flagged your card for initial Customs inspection or you were picked randomly.
If you then got a secodnary inspection, it was probably the former.

"You must be a little confused OP, since when you speak to the Immigration officer, you have not yet gotten your luggage"

I think he made it clear in the second sentence of his post there was no luggage apart from one carry-on.

I think he made it clear in the second sentence of his post there was no luggage apart from one carry-on.

But HOW does the immigration official know that? They come before the baggage collection point.

I always try to answer in the least number of words.

My husband is the same way. He gets treated with much more suspicion than me, miss chatterbox.

1) People tend to overestimate how interesting their lives are to total strangers
2) Unless you're a real nutjob, they're not going to remember you or your pasty white legs

thoughtpolice:
no, I don't think that I'm confused. But I may have my terminology wrong. First I went with everyone else to the immigration lineup where I presented my passport and arrival card. Was asked questions by the officer why I only had one bag and why I went to Hong Kong and Thailand so often. She obviously wasn't satisfied and wrote something on my arrival card which then flagged me for secondary inspection just before I exited the airport. This is where my bags and camera where inspected. I hope that is now clear and in the future promise to be more precise in my reporting.

laura_haha: I think you are missing the point. I really don't care that she saw my "pasty white legs". How are your legs by the way? I was just surprised at how casual and informal it was. If she had said; "Sir, I would like to have a look at what is in your camera because I have due cause to suspect that you have illegal material in it" then I probably would have told her to go crazy and have a look. FYI, the reason that I go to Hong Kong so often is that my 30 year old girlfriend of 6 years; and my future wife works there. Also, Immigration offices are human and don't think that there are some that enjoy the voyeur aspect of the job. Are they really looking at the photos because they think I am a sex offender or are they doing it just because they can?

Next time I will make sure that my memory card is full of pictures of my pasty bare white ass.

There is no legal requirement for you to answer any questions you fell are intrusive from those people-if they bother you ask to see a Supervisor.

They cannot deny you entry into the country of your birth or if you're a Canadian citizen.

It's been my experience that Canadian Customs & Immigration officials are poorly educated/badly trained very limited individuals who should be treated like the low level functionaries that they are.

ya - I'm sure they can't "make" you answer a question, but come on now...don't answer a question and what do you think is going to happen? Grab your camera and say you can't look in there and what do you think is going to happen? Grab your bag and say you can't look in there and what do you think is going to happen?

The customs act says that they can examine goods to check for pornography, but it also says:

"Non-intrusive examination of goods
99.3 (1) An officer may, in accordance with the regulations and without individualized suspicion, conduct a non-intrusive examination of goods in the custody or possession of a person leaving a customs controlled area." reference

And of course we know they can also open mail.

I think its a stretch for them to say they have grounds to check your camera for pornography just because you're a guy and just because you went to Thailand, but what can you really do in the situation? I guess you can ask for the supervisor, but then do they say that they now have grounds to check because you're trying to deny them access to inspect your 'goods'? You can say its private or that you believe its intrusive, but then what? Then do they say - Why don;t you want to let them look? If its just travel pictures, what's the problem? blah blah - I think you get the point. I know when I came back from one trip and the customs officer is reading my journal. I'm thinking - wtf? But I also just wanted to get home.

I get asked why I go to the mideast so often....geez. But the last time I came back through I was asked by customs what I had brought back (I was so fried by this time, no sleep, etc..) told them soap, soap, soap. Literally bars of olive soap I so love. The guy didn't even blink and went waltzing through...

a lot of the questions they ask may seem ridiculous to you, but it's the way that you answer the 'ridiculous' question that might trigger suspicion. There's a lot of psychology involved, and they can tell a lot not just by your answer, but by the way you answer.

we don't understand why they use the approach that they do, because we're not supposed to understand. if everyone knew the questions that were coming, those that want to break the rules would become more practiced liars.

on the other hand, some may be just plain bored if traffic is slow.
they stopped my parents once on their return to Canada from Michigan.
Border guard asked them how long they had been in the States.

Then asked where they stayed, and when they replied at their daughters house she then asked what they had for dinner last night.
They told her steak and she then asked them for their daughter's phone number.
The guard then went in and phoned the number they gave, and asked what they had for dinner; to confirm that my folks were telling the truth.
Two folks in their 70's, new car, what's the suspicion? who knows what the motive was?
it's all part of the mystery of travel, and you might as well get used to it.

Goldfinger - How thick are you, what do yopu not understand about no checked baggage. all his luggage was with him when he went through immigration. I'm guessing you've never been further than Hope and they don't have immigration there.

First of all it was a customs officer that checked you, not immigration. Immigration officers are desk clerks with bad attitudes, lying alone in bed at night touching themselves as they dream about one day becoming a customs agent.

Secondly, they absolutely have the right to check your camera, and that is quite common. Actually you might be able put up a fuss and force them to get a warrant, but what's the point - they will most definitely do it if you force the issue. Try going through a land crossing to the US with a laptop - they will run their special software which pulls up content that has been deleted in the past, and content from websites you've visited. You think them viewing your camera is intrusive - let them get ahold of your laptop and see how uncomfortable and embarrassing that can be!

I guess I'm as thick as Goldfinger. I still don't understand how the immigration officer would know how many bags you had, or whether or not you had checked any.

"no, I don't think that I'm confused. But I may have my terminology wrong. First I went with everyone else to the immigration lineup where I presented my passport and arrival card. Was asked questions by the officer why I only had one bag and why I went to Hong Kong and Thailand so often. She obviously wasn't satisfied and wrote something on my arrival card which then flagged me for secondary inspection just before I exited the airport. This is where my bags and camera where inspected. I hope that is now clear and in the future promise to be more precise in my reporting. '

Your story does not ring true.
When you get in the immigration lineup after exiting the plane, all you have is your carryon luggage, just like every other person in the line. The Immigration Officer would have no idea how many bags you have, wouldn't ask and does not care. They do ask intrsive questioons here.
You then proceed to the baggage carousel and pick up your luggage, or in your case proceed to primary inspection just like every other paasenger. The Immigration officer may have noted something on your form, the Customs officer might not like the way you look, or you have been picked at random (as in they search every 26th person). You were hten taken to secondary inspection by Customs.

I find it unlikely that the Customs guy would ask the same questions that were asked by the Immigration person- you have already been admitted to Canada, and the issue is now contraband, not Immigration issues.

"How thick are you, what do yopu not understand about no checked baggage. all his luggage was with him when he went through immigration. I'm guessing you've never been further than Hope and they don't have immigration there." 'Immigration" at airports does not check luggage, know or care how many pieces you have. They would have no idea or interest in any luggage. Customs does care, and they come later.

Anyway, there is dick you can do about except live somewhere else.

"Two folks in their 70's, new car, what's the suspicion? who knows what the motive was?
it's all part of the mystery of travel, and you might as well get used to it."

The suspicion is that they might be smuggling people or drugs.
Border people used to pull over all the long haired young ones, until they realized that the couple in their 60s in the 50 foot motorhome could, would and was hauling weed by the tonne, while the stoner with a backpack had nothing. That is why most checks are random, in the abscence of any tips or paperwork issues.

I remember in the late 80s Heathrow switched from picking out likely suspects in the customs lineup, to just taking and searching every 25th person no matter what they looked like- and their drug interdiction rate went up sharply.......

Why can't they just look at your plane ticket or boarding pass at the immigration/passport control counter and see how many bags you've checked?

I know what you mean thoughtpolice in #21, but she didn't check their car or luggage. all she did was go and make a phone call.

JJ #19: I still don't understand how the immigration officer would know how many bags you had

s_b #22: can't they just look at your plane ticket or boarding pass at the immigration/passport control counter and see how many bags you've checked

The airline provides the flight manifest to the border cops prior to landing, It has all of the relevant info for all passengers. its on the computer screen in front of them. they already know the answer to alot of the questions they ask.

Geer37 -

"can't they just look at your plane ticket or boarding pass at the immigration/passport control counter and see how many bags you've checked"

What possible interest would the Immigration person have in how many bags you may or may not have? It is not their job to examine luggage.

tp - I just posted the rhetorical question in response to comments in posts 1, 9, 11 and 20 regarding how they could know. I can speculate that most passengers travel with luggage and if you don't on a three week trip it 'in their eyes' might be worth a couple of 'fishing' questions. I doubt someone is sent for secondary just because they notice someone is not travelling with luggage, but I don't know. Based on what I do know, it doesn't surprise me.

We keep calling these people we see at the airport Immigration or Customs. The reality is that the people we meet at the airport in Canada - the $50K a year employees of the CBSA responsible for people and goods through border crossings - are the same people wearing the same uniforms. As far as I know, they serve the seperate entities of the CRA(by collecting duties and taxes) and the Citizenship and Immigration Ministry by ensuring that immigrants have the proper paperwork. I wouldn't be surprised to find that they also play a role in ensuring that visitors to Canada have the proper visas when required and that in effect probably serves yet another federal ministry.

Sunshine- I have never entered Canada by air and talked to the same person about both Customs and Immigration.
If this guys story to CBSA is as incoherent there as it is here, no wonder he got yanked.

Which makes them much like every customs officer I've ever seen anywhere. In Tahiti last year at Faa'a airport-Tahiti's main gateway to the world-the customs guy did whatever stamping he needed to and handed me my PP back and I went to Chile, and then 5 days later when I came back through going somewhere else the VERY SAME GUY told me it had been "improperly stamped"-or had the wrong stamp something like that-my French sucks. but it was the same guy. HE stamped it or didn't stamp it, then blamed me.

Eventually I came through and actually made the flight-barely.

Happens everywhere. IMHO Canada and the US are actually better than most other major countries, not worse as so many say.

And OP, like it or not, there is a HUGE sex traffic business between North America and SE Asia, and almost all of it is pasty white males. A lot of them go for illegal activities such as underage kids. Sure its a pain in the ass, but try to understand that it matters to some little kid in Bangkok.

Ed

Me thinks some people on here just like to argue. It wasn't the same guy. I talked to one person and they wrote something on my form which obviously flagged me to have my bag opened and checked by another person.

I simply made the post because I was surprised that they were able to look at my digital camera pictures and wanted to know if this was normal. This was news to me. Sunshine_Boy and JJack were kind enough to answer my question and for that I thank them. If it happens to me in the future I still won't like it but at least I won't be surprised.

sunshine_boy rolls eyeballs, shakes head, pulls out hair - and in tribute to other TT posters - drops knitting needles. Please note I did not say same person tp, I said same people, same uniforms. Click on the links on this page for both immigration and customs and see what happens. Its the new reality - the new method(since 2003) of delivering 'some' aspects of these federal services when they merged the Customs people with the border enforcement people from Immigration. Canada doesn't even have Customs inspection officers anymore. They're all Border Services Officers and Immigration Departments exist mostly in downtown office towers

sunshine_boy again rolls eyeballs, shakes head. Picks up knitting needles and throws them.

(this comment was in response to another poster's reply that has since been removed - it was pretty tasteless)

Edited by: sunshine_boy

Let me clear this matter up for everyone.

First of all:

"When you get in the immigration lineup after exiting the plane, all you have is your carryon luggage, just like every other person in the line. The Immigration Officer would have no idea how many bags you have, wouldn't ask and does not care. They do ask intrsive questioons here."

It is in fact a customs officer you first encounter after you exit the plane. Furthermore, the first customs officer can and often will enquire how many bags you have- I know this because I was asked that very question when I entered Canada by air internationally yesterday.

This customs officer will decide whether you need to see an immigration officer or not (example: you are not a resident of Canada and are here for studying, so you need to see an immigration officer).

After you pick up your bags (and clear immigration if necessary), you pass another checkpoint where you are either referred to secondary for further inspection or are free to leave the hall unhindered. Note: as far as I can tell this is usually based on the first officer's opinion.

Finally, OP: They probably find it a little suspicious that you don't have checked bags because people typically buy things when they go to places like Thailand and Hong Kong. For the record though, I almost never check in luggage when I go anywhere and have only been to secondary once. I reckon it's sometimes just luck of the draw or a perhaps a personality clash with the customs officer that lands people in secondary.

J_Bone: I understand what you are saying because it appears that the function of the officers is as an immigration officer and then a customs officer, but the reality is that there are no Customs Officers and there are no Immigration officers that most travellers encounter anymore. They are all 'Border Services Officers'. You couldn't even apply for a job as a customs officer anymore. They don't exist. Border Services officers perform enforcement services of both the Citizenship and Immigration Department as well as collection of duties and taxes for the Canada Revenue Agency. They work for the same agency of the government and wear the same uniforms, make the same pay under the same job classification. Check on it if you don't believe me.

Jbone, you pick up your bags before you speak to passport control?
Sorry, I don't believe that, not at airports.

We're getting bound up on terminology here, though in my mind I speak to two people, and in this order: first immigration who check papers, then customs who may or may not check bags.
As stated, whether you get secondary search depends on random selection, suspicion of immigration officer, or suspicion of customs officer at primary inspection.

No, I believe you sunshine boy. My point is Canadian citizens don't need to clear immigration at all. After the first officer stamped my card the other day in Toronto there was a checkpoint immediately afterwards and I overheard the customs officer telling the guy ahead of me he needed to go to immigration.

After the bag pickup area there was another checkpoint where they collect the customs cards and that's where they send you for further inspection- I know this because that's where I got pulled aside before :P

it was four of us backpacker types returning from Amsterdam, so it wasn't a big shock. Come to think of it it was a piece of piss, they just opened our bags and took a little poke around, not sure why everyone makes such a big deal out of it

Coming back to apologize to those offended for(my deleted) tasteless comment. May I suggest this thread has dead ended into pointless bickering...Let it die a whimpering death...carracar

{quote:title=hardnosethehighway wrote:}{quote}
There is no legal requirement for you to answer any questions you fell are intrusive from those people-if they bother you ask to see a Supervisor.

They cannot deny you entry into the country of your birth or if you're a Canadian citizen.

It's been my experience that Canadian Customs & Immigration officials are poorly educated/badly trained very limited individuals who should be treated like the low level functionaries that they are.

Just because someone is poorly educated or badly trained does not make them a bad person and or deserves being treated like a person of lesser worth.

Be realistic- post 9/11 all countries are putting every passenger a little more under the spotlight. They are just doing their jobs. Unless you gave them reason to hang you over to secondary inspection, they wouldn't waste your time or their coworkers. Lest of all on Super Sunday. Of course, if some ignorant fool gave you attitude, wouldn't you be less inclined to let them pass through easily?