relaxed pronunciation in writing?

Hi everyone!
It's really long since I last came to this forum! But I have a question and I think this is the best way to make it:

Do you use "gonna", "wanna" and the like in writing? It looks really odd when my students use it (since they are learning English), and I have a feeling that it's not so common nowadays, but some teachers of English teach it around here... So, what's your opinion here? Thanks!!

It's sloppy pronunciation and incorrect writing. Where is the "around here" that teachers do that?

One of the grammar books that I've taught from, "Fundamentals of English Grammar, Third Edition" did spend a very short amount of time covering "gonna" and "wanna". However, it was clearly stated that it was not acceptable in writing.

I agree, not acceptable.
I see these phrases in transcriptions of popular songs. And then people learnnig English copy them into written prose. Its a sure sign the writer's not a native speaker.

It's sloppy pronunciation

And then people learnnig English copy them into written prose. Its a sure sign the writer's not a native speaker.

Nonsense and nonsense. It's actually standard colloquial pronunciation in virtually all dialects of English. A true "sure sign of a non-native speaker" is someone who carefully enunciates every syllable of words that are normally elided or contracted in speech by all but the most toffee-nosed. It's extremely important for ESL/EFL students to be taught to recognize these forms as they'll hear them day and night if they ever set foot in an English-speaking country or have a job dealing with English speakers.

That said, I agree that the students should be strongly discouraged from using the forms in writing, since most writing tasks ESL/EFL students must master are in the formal register. But do native speakers ever write "gonna" or "wanna"? Of course they do. The 100,000,000+ Google hits for "gonna" are not "non-native" hits, and the contractions are perfectly ordinary in text-messaging, Twitter, Facebook posts, Thorn Tree posts, and other casual contexts.

It's actually standard colloquial pronunciation in virtually all dialects of English.

No matter how fervently some native English speakers may protest it, that is the case. The only exceptions I can think of is the English spoken by the Queen of England (possibly) and that used by the Italian Mob characters in The Simpsons, whose aversion to elision is part of their whole shtick.

For an English learner to use these spellings in a written English exam such as IELTS would be a solecism, I think we all agree on that.

Go
Tomorrow I am _ to the cinema.

Answer:
Tomorrow I am gonna go to the cinema, innit, lol :)

A student should not expect top marks for that.

On an internet forum? Acceptable. Write how you speak, if you fancy.

What about “proper” writing?

"Literature got me into this and literature is gonna have to get me out" - Philip Roth.

From using internet forums I have to say that “wanna” and “gonna” are overused by Chinese users of English, however. I have always assumed it comes from pop songs, as mentioned earlier.

I don’t wanna
Talk about it
How you broke my heart

Nobody pretends Rod Stewart is singing “I don’t want to”, which legitimises this alternative spelling. Also, some don’t realise “wanna” is short for “want a” or “want to” and so might write something like “I don’t wanna his advice”, which is pretty painful.

I hope the OP can explain properly to his/her students when and how to use these alternative spellings.

I would first define 'in writing'.

I occasionally use wanna or gonna on the internet or in a private mail. But even this very rarely, usually something like "I wanna go home!"

I would never use this in a (semi) formal letter.

And when writing papers, proposals, official documents, I don't even use don't and can't. It may be old-fashioned but I always use cannot or do not. I teach my students to do the same.

but some teachers of English teach it around here

Really? Where is "here"?
Not correcting students is one thing, but actually teaching them to write this stuff is . . . kinda weird, I wanna say.

Gotta say I agree with shilgia.

The OP's profile says "Spain," but as the OP hasn't posted for three years, he/she might have moved.

I'd only use "gonna" or "wanna" in writing that was deliberately extremely informal, for instance, writing an email to a friend that "I gotta go to work tomorrow but I sure don't wanna."

I did some looking at ESL websites. Some encourage teachers to teach gonna, wanna, et al. because students need to be able to understand them in spoken speech. But I didn't see anything about teaching the reductions in writing. (The term for these kinds of pronunciations seems to be "reductions.")

Thank you all for your replies!

Yes, I'm still in Spain, so the "here" I mentioned is Spain. I've only see two students (only one of them is in my class this year) do it, so I can't say that it is taught throughout Spain. The student used it only in a specific task - when writing a letter/e-mail to a friend -, so I feel I can't say it's wrong, since it is normally used by native speakers. I will remind her, though, that it should not be used in other contexts!

Be sure to let the student know that it is also informal in speech. You say to your friend "I'm gonna go to the cafe for lunch. You wanna come?" But the President of the US does not tell Congress in his annual address that "I'm gonna tell you what we shoudlda done last year and what we wanna do this year."

But the President of the US does not tell Congress in his annual address that "I'm gonna tell you what we shoudlda done last year and what we wanna do this year."

You might be surprised at how many gonnas+ and +wannas you hear from even among the best educated and those in very high places.

When I tutored English to immigrants, I urged my students to watch programs such as the PBS News Hour so that they could hear the language as spoken by educated Americans. I watched the program so that we could discuss it when we met, and I was surprised to hear gonna+, +wanna+, +hafta, etc., from many of the regulars on that program. I'm 99% sure that I've also heard them in President Obama's speech.

The only exceptions I can think of is the English spoken by the Queen of England (possibly)

Actually, I can quite imagine it (her using gonna and wanna).

I'm 99% sure that I've also heard them in President Obama's speech.

And Obama is justly noted for the clarity and precision of his speech. The previous occupant of the White House? Not so much...

Nutrax referenced Obama speaking to Congress in his annual address. I think she's right. Same with the Queen's speech from the throne, or her Christmas message.

I have no proof, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear some wannas and couldas in a President's annual address to the Congress.

A few years ago I attended a lecture by a Dutch linguist, who asked the audience a similar question about a few similar elision-type things that are OK in Dutch informal speech but are thought of as very informal: "would the Queen ever use them?" he asked in a poll of the audience. "Of course not" was the audience's resounding response. Then he played a few tapes, making it clear that the Queen did just that.

Apparently it is very hard to read a written-out speech, no matter how formal, all the way through without lapsing into a few careless informal pronunciations.

i don't usually listen to the State of the Union address but maybe I'll make an exception this year.

What about the pronunciation of these words, "gonna" "wanna" and so on?

Written the way they are, the "gonna" (and so on) is going to sound American, whereas the slang "going to" in places such as Australia or England might rather be "go-na" (where the "go" is pronounced "go")...

The shortening of these expressions will inevitably happen in English, but not necessarily in the same way....this is where the written and spoken English might also diverge?

Wow! this is getting interesting! thanks for all the comments!

Toot, I'd like to see the comments to your post. I thought these "wanna" and "gonna" were reflections in writing of the American pronunciation, which, as far as I know, tends to relax and omit the -t- (for example, they say "tweny" instead of "twenty", while I think that in England, even in informal speech, they wouldn't say that. Am I wrong?

Any Brits around here? Do you say "gonna" and the others? Do you use them in writing? And Aussies?

...Obama is justly noted for the clarity and precision of his speech.

I don't deny that. What is say is this: Listen to him very carefully, and you will hear some of the more relaxed or casual forms of speech that we are discussing here.

Actually in Australia "going to" is more often shortened to what sounds like "gunna" - like this .

It wasn't uncommon in my rural area to hear a procrastinator nicknamed "Gunner" - as in someone who's always "gunna" do something but never does.

Similarly, a local kindergarten was named "Wydinia" , assumed by some to be an Aboriginal name but later claimed by the building committee to be because of people constantly asking "Wydinia (why didn't you) do it this way ...?"

I don't deny that. What is say is this: Listen to him very carefully, and you will hear some of the more relaxed or casual forms of speech that we are discussing here.

For the record, NA, I have no doubt at all about that. What I'm skeptical of are claims by folks that any native speaker doesn't use relaxed forms when speaking at normal speed. Presidents might hyper-enunciate during the slow-as-molasses State of the Union speech, but that would be about the only time.

Yes, I have known plenty of Gunners in Australia. But would never use it in writing, even informally - don't know about the younger generation though, I can only speak for the oldies.

Must admit I have sometimes been surprised to see non-native speakers on TT using wanna, as though it had been taught to them as normal English.

We don't disagree at all, zashibis. I read into your earlier comment something that wasn't there.

Are we still using Betty Windsor as a benchmark for good British English?

You can be sure she will be pronouncing 'house' as 'hice' and gone as 'gorn'.

plenty of wannas and gonnas in Britain too.

I dinna ken aboot that

Written the way they are, the "gonna" (and so on) is going to sound American, whereas the slang "going to" in places such as Australia or England might rather be "go-na" (where the "go" is pronounced "go")...

In England the first vowel of 'gonna' is a schwa - it definitely doesn't sound like go-na.

for example, they say "tweny" instead of "twenty", while I think that in England, even in informal speech, they wouldn't say that. Am I wrong?

'Tweny' (or rather, 'twenny') is very common in England too.

Whether they like to hear it or not, even the biggest pedants/prescriptivists use these reduced/contracted forms in informal, connected speech (and it's certainly not restricted to certain socio-economic or class groups). I think an issue arises when L2 speakers of English use 'gonna' and 'wanna' in (semi-)formal writing - they're so used to seeing them used in informal contexts, such as in texts or when communicating online, that they don't realise that it isn't considered appropriate by the majority of speakers in more formal contexts.

My feeling (from trying to analyse my own speech - difficult to do) is that I wouldn't hesitate to use 'gonna' in speech but that I might try to self-correct to avoid 'wanna', which feels far more marked (as informal etc.) to me.

There's even a phoneme-free way of expressing "I don't know" just by using tones.

I feel like it may have been popularised by The Simpsons.

Say "I dunno" with a rising inflection. Then pronounce those three tones as though they were mud: "ur-ee-ur".

Does anyone know what on earth I'm talking about? Or have a better way of expressing this?

A friend of mine told me that there's a Spanish curse phrase that can be whistled. Apparently it's a way Spanish speakers can insult foreigners without their knowledge. The tone of the whistle sounds rather like the way this rude phrase is pronounced. Any info or clarification on this?

In the movie MAS*H (not the series), the character Hawkeye uses a distinctive whistle towards an officer he does not respect. I suspect it might be this Spanish whistle insult. Or maybe not. It also sounds a lot like the whistle Harpo Marx (the silent one) used to communicate with his brothers. Also three tones.

I think the scene I'm thinking of is from A Day at the Races.

Harpo: 3-tone whistle
Chico: Doctor hackin a bush..
Harpo: (mimes a portrait picture)
Chico: Is being framed ...
Harpo: 3-tone-whistle (plus tracing exaggerated curves in the air)
Chico: By a woman!

etc

Does anyone know what on earth I'm talking about?

Not really, but you remind me of a story. A friend of mine was visiting his grandmother, non entirely compose mentis, in a nursing home. The staff in the nursing home said that she kept mentioning someone called "Lionel" and asked if he knew who that might be. He doubted that she even knew the name Lionel, much less anyone who went by that.

When he heard her speaking in her own mix of English, Sicilian, and Italian, he realized that what the staff heard as Lionel was her pronunciation of "I don't know" in sort of the way you describe. Ay uh nuh.

(He has also told me that even in her compos days she used to exclaim Guffooneseks!, which is what she made of "For goodness' sakes!")

Count - it's more like uh-uh-uh or mm-mm-mm in 3 distinct syllables with a kind of a sing-songy tone to it.

Does anyone know what on earth I'm talking about?

Of course. My kids have only just emeged from their teens.

In Scotland, there is also "gonny" as in gonny no or "ah'm gonny kick yir heid in pal"

One way to hear it is to say "I don't know." Then say just the vowels in the same tone "I oh oh." Then say "mm mm mm" in the same tone.

I helps if you also throw up your hands in in an "I don't know" gestrue.

OK, from sasha's description I know what the Count is talking about.

There's even a phoneme-free way of expressing "I don't know" just by using tones.

I feel like it may have been popularised by The Simpsons.

I feel morally certain Scooby Doo got there first.

Of course. My kids have only just emeged from their teens.

Oh, you mean the neanderthal grunting stage? (waiting patiently for a SiT poster to tell me testily that the neanderthals had a rich and complex form of verbal communication far in advance of the modern teenager)

OK, from sasha's description I know what the Count is talking about.

Jolly good. Have you seen the latest Spongebob Squarepants movie yet? That can remove all doubt.

http://www.wisevid.com/play?v=1tbvdAxct-wb

At the 18 minute mark, during a game of bad mitten:

Spongebob: Patrick, do you remember how to play this game?
Patrick: mm-mm-mm.

My 9-year son old does that "I don't know" with tones. One of many attributes he shares with Bart Simpson.