Pai Thailand monkey tortured

I was recently in Pai and I was absolutely shocked at what I saw in the “Blue Restaurant”(103 Moo 3, Wiengtai, Thedsaban 1 Road). They were keeping a tiny baby macaque in a very small cage. The monkey looked very distressed, he was going up and down in the little cage which is a sign that he really wants to get out. There was also no water in the cage and the music in the night was way too loud for any kind of animal. The cage hangs in front of the restaurant and it is clearly put there because the owner of the place wants to attract more tourists.
Both my husband and I, as well as some other travelers tried to explain to the owner that this is really not good for the business as most tourists don’t want to see an animal in distress and that this is torture for the monkey. We even arranged for the Elephant Nature Park to take in this monkey for rehabilitation. In vain we explained everything to the owner related to the welfare of this animal and she was just not willing to give it up or move the cage to a more quiet area.
I just want to discourage everybody from ever eating at the Blue restaurant in Pai because of the torture that this little monkey has to go through.
Thank you for your help.

Kind regards,
Diana

Well-intentioned (western) tourists don't have much impact on this sort of thing, wandering into a country on a holiday and trying to set the country straight. Animals are not always seen as the sorts of things one ought to care for. Humans aren't guaranteed decent treatment, let alone a monkey. Even in the morally upstanding West animal concern is relatively recent.

I doubt it'll have much effect on business, even if all the people who read your message take your suggestion and do boycott the place.

Can you have a monkey steak here? I've been looking for a place for ages!

I do think monkeys are like little humans though and better left in the wild. There's a big monkey in a small cage sitting here outside just around the corner, in very bad shape and has been there for ages... No idea why! As oldpro sais different culture. And what about the shape all those city dogs are in?! Horrible!

Posts like these may be more helpful in a general sense rather than offering any real hope for that particular caged monkey.

Tourists need to think more about the impact they have on the destinations they visit. It's a wider issue than just animal welfare but if people start thinking then lots of tourist related animal cruelty can be stopped.

If people make objections about caged monkeys in restaurants or stop feeding elephants on the streets or having their pictures taken with drugged animals (and so on) then the profit goes out of it and the cruelty will stop.

The impact of occasional posts here might be negligible but, hey, no harm trying.

Sadly an all to familiar story.
While there are still elephants being paraded around the middle of bangkok there is no hope at all.

The saddest thing is the tourists attitude towards these things. many expect to much from Thailand but maybe they should look at themselves first.
Seeing people from a developed and educated country feeding the cute elephant or monkey rather than thinking of the implications is the main problem.

No demand equals no supplt

This is a country where you get 18 years in jail for speaking your mind, and you choose to worry about a monkey?

they use their children an money makers, do you really think they care about an animal. here children are raised to believe they are a liability to the family, since they were born, and must repay for being raised..........what a F'g up society. use your kid for financial gain, no school, work, what ever benefits the parents now, not the future of child. all them kids you see during the day, working and riding around with parents/grandparents during school hours...........they have no future, just money machines for family. all the underage vendors working day and night, no school, no future.

in western society, you work hard to provide everything so your child gets a good start on life, here, the opposite, they are trained to take care of family, simply because they were born. no school, work now, money now, after we die, oh well, the cycle continues. i do for parents, you do for me. TIT

Chanchao - you can worry about more than one thing if you like. You don't have to specialise in the area you personally judge as most important.

Udornia I agree eduction needs improvement and a dose of Bhuddism may encourage animal rights but as Chanchao said humans are having a tough time and conditioning is strong .This is no excuse for not raising the issue in ahope of interrupting as often as practicable.
TAT promotes Tiger shows croc parks there are still cock and dog fights in rural areas
I di however see just as many school aged kids at large in Cambridge this year and their behaviour language was far more threatening.A few hours in family shop or farm doesnt prepare you for gap year or living on welfare but quite handy if its your livlihood from 14

OP is 100% right. I wish I had his sense of going out and doing, or at least saying, something - now not later. He's done the right thing in posting here, alerting people and suggesting that people not eat there. I've often just let it slide.

The other issues brought up here range from distractions at best to self-involved and grossly irrelevant Thai political blather about "speaking your mind" in Thailand. Speaking his mind is what OP is doing. Is that somehow not ok? How many years in jail do you think, Chanchao, is appropriate for speaking one's mind on Lonely Planet?

Enduring a rant or two seems adequate punishment. :)

Udornla said, "they use their children an money makers, do you really think they care about an animal. here children are raised to believe they are a liability to the family, since they were born, and must repay for being raised..........what a F'g up society. use your kid for financial gain, no school, work, what ever benefits the parents now, not the future of child. all them kids you see during the day, working and riding around with parents/grandparents during school hours...........they have no future, just money machines for family. all the underage vendors working day and night, no school, no future.

in western society, you work hard to provide everything so your child gets a good start on life, here, the opposite, they are trained to take care of family, simply because they were born. no school, work now, money now, after we die, oh well, the cycle continues. i do for parents, you do for me. TIT"

Udornla, who is the "they" as in "they use their children as money makers"? All Thai people? If that's what you are saying, you are a bigot.

Muppy's post was titled, "Pai Thailand monkey tortured". I share his/her general concern and I admire that they tried to do something positive about the situation. I do think using the word "torture" was sensationalist. Abused or mistreated would sound more accurate, based on the rest of the post.

Udornla, who is the "they" as in "they use their children as money makers"? All Thai people? If that's what you are saying, you are a bigot.

bigot.............no........well sometimes, but more toward arrogance and ignorance, not any creed. change bigot to realist, as i live here and see it every day, if you don't, then you are blind. school age kids, not in school, that's a bit easy. children working all day and night selling stuff, whether walking around, or sitting with parents at night markets, that's neglect and abuse, illegal in most western countries. open you eyes, pretty hard to miss. i won't even discuss the pressure put on the women to provide, even if it means turning to prostitution. must marry whoever wants to pay the highest sin sot, yes, still goes on. my ex got sold for 100k to first husband she didn't even know. this place isn't even close to developing, still extreme 3rd world.

believe what you want, but i've seen and experienced it. so save it for someone else. take your blinders off.

People can vote with their feet - if you see animal mistreatment - and it is nearly 100% with animals in Thailand - avoid that business and as above post your observations on the net in as many sites as you can. Not only are Thai people in general ignorant of animal welfare issues (even though many have the best intentions), it would appear so are the customers - the tourists tat these animals are used and abused to attract - be aware - educate yourself and avoid and publicise any mistreatment you find.

agree with khunwilko, hmm, that's disturbing, lol, and OP, simply vote with your feet. major 'cultural' difference, though many locals don't care for this type of animal treatment either.

sorry, didn't mean to take the thread sideways, but hey, some things i see here are amazing, and sad.

OP should have put the critter out of its misery.

Or tried to buy it.

"cultural differences" is not an umbrella under which activities such as this can hide....in the same way cannibalism and female circumcision are to be deplored and campaigned against so is the wanton animal cruelty that is so common in Thailand - there is no Buddhist creed to cover this sort of stuff it stems for ignorance and greed........which most cultures deplore anyway.

There s always someone who thinks that one issue should preclude action or opinion on another - this is not a valid point of view - humans are quite capable of multi-tasking - most of us anyway.....

"Udornla, who is the "they" as in "they use their children as money makers"? All Thai people? If that's what you are saying, you are a bigot."

"bigot.............no........well sometimes, but more toward arrogance and ignorance, not any creed. change bigot to realist, as i live here and see it every day, if you don't, then you are blind. school age kids, not in school, that's a bit easy. children working all day and night selling stuff, whether walking around, or sitting with parents at night markets, that's neglect and abuse, illegal in most western countries. open you eyes, pretty hard to miss. i won't even discuss the pressure put on the women to provide, even if it means turning to prostitution. must marry whoever wants to pay the highest sin sot, yes, still goes on. my ex got sold for 100k to first husband she didn't even know. this place isn't even close to developing, still extreme 3rd world.

believe what you want, but i've seen and experienced it. so save it for someone else. take your blinders off."

Well, I do class your statements as bigoted since you are condemning ALL Thai people for what a few do. What country are you from? Let's blame you for that country's shortcomings.

Here's a little data for you. According to one source, "the attendance rate of Thai children attending primary school is still very high. The attendance rate of Thai middle-school students - measured in 2006 - was 89%, compared to a world average of 79%. Thai high-school students had an attendance rate of 65%, compared to a world average of 51%. Meanwhile, the attendance rate of Thai college students - 41% - was still considered acceptable."

And by the way, officially according to the world community, Thailand is classes as a "rapidly industrializing nation", not a third world nation.

Now, do I see the children not in school? Yes. Do I see the children and mothers begging on the street? Yes. Blaming all Thai people for that, however, is not reasonable.

you forgot to mention, there is a 96 % literacy rate..............way too funny. does that mean count to 10 and make your mark. 'they'..........hmm, that does sound like it includes everyone.........such as the silent majority who don't seem to care or have given up trying since it is hopeless. or the rich that control everything and like to keep the sheep 'barefoot and pregnant' as them yanks say. or the junta, who would rather increase their budget 66%, but only spend 1000 baht a year to try to teach a child, with untrained, unmotivated teachers. 40 + kids to a class in good school, more in gov't, no problem teaching down to the dumbest, the other will just have to keep up.......down. probably because they can afford to send their children to private schools here and abroad.

41 % in college, still acceptable............hmm, test scores for college, average grade, highest 79, and they accept medical students with a 52 grade. sorry where i come from, you can't get out of 1st grade with a 52, and they are planning on performing surgery on you...........no thanks. so keep quoting numbers, they really do sound good. don't forget, every student is guaranteed 9 years of this excellent training, hope you realize that 3 yrs is kindergarten. the the gov't provides all of a six grade education. ok, if lucky, basic math, basic reading, and basic superstition. the sheep are educated............................please.

i'm a yank, and i used to write my congressman occasionally, thus giving me the right to bitch and complain about all the campaign lies. since they are doing such a good job now, i would like to see one term limits, and they are to be paid last, after the balance budget is passed.

Edited by: udornla

In reality it is not how many people pass through the education system, it is what they are taught. The Thai system - although undergoing change is very parochial empiricism is minimal and the result is that issues such as the environment animal welfare a are in general overlooked or fudged

Khunwilko said: ""cultural differences" is not an umbrella under which activities such as this can hide....in the same way cannibalism and female circumcision are to be deplored and campaigned against so is the wanton animal cruelty that is so common in Thailand - there is no Buddhist creed to cover this sort of stuff it stems for ignorance and greed........which most cultures deplore anyway."

When you go to the extreme of comparing a monkey being in a cage to cannibalism, well, basically you've surrendered your likelihood of being taken too seriously.

Udornla, I'm a yank, also, and I find you an embarassment.

Khunwilko said, "In reality it is not how many people pass through the education system, it is what they are taught. The Thai system - although undergoing change is very parochial empiricism is minimal and the result is that issues such as the environment animal welfare a are in general overlooked or fudged."

Damn! For once I am somewhat in agreement with you. Although, if you're going to be critical of Thailand's educational system, you might want to improve your grammar and punctuation skills. I only mention that (or spelling) in posts that relate directly to the lack of education in Thailand.

Udornla, I'm a yank, also, and I find you an embarassment.

since you obviously believe all that entertainment news tells you, here and at home, you should be embarrassed. damn yanks, ignorant silent majority sitting on their brains watching the country go down the toilet.

i usually don't make judgments of people i don't know........one you might want to write down.

have a nice day.

Sorry vinyl my post was intended for folks with comprehension skills of average or above......I'll try and write something you can understand later.....actually I'm kidding - I won't!

Udornla said: "since you obviously believe all that entertainment news tells you, here and at home, you should be embarrassed. damn yanks, ignorant silent majority sitting on their brains watching the country go down the toilet. i usually don't make judgments of people i don't know........one you might want to write down. have a nice day."

Why do I imagine you sitting watching FOX News 24/7?

However, the topic was Thailand. Yes, I live here. I see its shortcomings. But I don't condemn masses of people for each and every shortcoming. My SO is in education at an influential level (I'll leave it at that). They are working very hard with limited funding to upgrade the curriculum and technology. I know people here in agriculture (and I don't mean the farming level...well, actually I know some rice farmers well, too). There have been extremely positive advances in Thai agriculture over the years, including in the area of multiple crops per year, and Thailand continues to be one of the largest exporters of rice in the world. Like India's basmati rice, Thailand's jasmine rice is considered among the best strains in the world. Do an internet search and you'll easily find some articles about significant advances in air quality in Bangkok (water pollution is quite a different story). Mass transit systems are used by tens of thousands per day in Bangkok. Food cleanliness has improved to a large extent since I first came here in 1987. I could go on.

Place along side of those advances and you still see too much poverty. Too many children not in school or not in school long enough. Water pollution and rubbish. Too many stray dogs and cats. I could go on and on about the negatives, too.

You choose to condemn a whole nation. I choose to see a nation full of individuals.

Why do I imagine you sitting watching FOX News 24/7?

god no, i don't even have cable tv, only watch when on holiday here, and after one hour, realize why i don't have or watch at all at home. the perfect example of entertainment tv.

see, we are not that far apart.

Place along side of those advances and you still see too much poverty. Too many children not in school or not in school long enough. Water pollution and rubbish. Too many stray dogs and cats. I could go on and on about the negatives, too.

agree, 'they' are doing many things right, though still a long way too go. though one of the largest if then the largest exporter of rice, their yield per rai/per year in not good, and a result of their poor farming practices.

You choose to condemn a whole nation. I choose to see a nation full of individuals.

we agree again, but 'they' need to get together and solve, force the gov't, who don't want to solve, the education system if there is any chance to compete in the world.

just had IT competition. 60 teams from asia, 27 of those teams were from thailand, china came in 1st, singapore 2nd, no surprises there. vietnam, 3rd place, bit surprising....best thai team, 19th...........the 4 teams from the university it was held at, i think came in 54th, 57th, 58th, 60..dead last........so they do need to work on things.

IT news

two things thailand is lacking in, education, health care, which are two basics i think every country should provide, especially better services here, 'for the masses', not just the rich.

vietnam, 3rd place, bit surprising

not at all. ~8 years ago, some of the Vietnamese students were already making it into the equivalent of the dean's honors list for computer science majors in the National University of Singapore.

that really wasn't a major surprise, considering the countries students came from. thailand, not getting in the top 10, with almost half the teams competing is a bit of a surprise.

but with number like these below, and sorry, no link, but from nation, dated in article. couldn't find the link, and another link to different article.

apologize for hijacking thread, but may interest some. 'they', everyone involved with a child, need to pay more attention, send them to school, train and pay teachers enough to know what they are doing, incentive to actually do. too many kids don't attend, and those that do, too many on their own. obviously this isn't just a thai problem, buddy of mine, teacher in usa, retiring early, can't take it anymore. he refers to it as the 'dumbing down of the education system', nobody seems to care, and he is tired of banging his head against the wall, next may, he's finished.

Test scores fall for med school
The Nation April 7, 2009

Test scores for medical school slid slightly this year, due to the Advanced National Educational Test, which accounts for 70 per cent of admission criteria.

"This year, the Anet scores are rather low," Dr Boonmee Sathapatayavongs, chairwoman of the Consortium of Thai Medical Schools' direct admission panel, said yesterday.

"However, we've seen just a slight drop among our successful applicants."

The consortium posted the list of successful applicants in the evening on its website, www.cotmes.org, and its member medical schools' websites.

Of 22,000 test-takers, only 1,491 will go to the next step - an interview with a consortium medical school.

Sit Assawaworarit from Triam Udom Suksa School emerged as the top scorer, with 79.12 out of 100 points. He has applied to Chulalongkorn University's Faculty of Medicine.

The lowest score accepted by the consortium was 52.77 for Rangsit University's Faculty of Medicine.
___________________________________________________

Grade-12 students perform poorly across the board in all main subjects
The Nation April 7, 2009

'Easy' test, which weighs heavily in the university-admissions system, seems to be stumping high-school seniors

Grade-12 students have performed badly in the Ordinary National Educational Test (Onet) with their average scores from the past four years below 50 per cent in all main subjects.

"The statistics show most schools still have low standards," National Institute of Educational Testing Services (NIETS) director Utumporn Jamornmann yesterday said.

NIETS has held Onet for Grade-6, Grade-9 and Grade-12 students. The Onet scores for the 2008 Academic Year have just been announced via www.niets.or.th and some other web sites.

To Grade-12 students, the Onet scores are very important because they count in the university-admission system.

However, NIETS has found most students could not perform well in the Onet.

From 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 academic years, the students' average scores in Thai-language subjects were 49 out of 100. In social studies, the average scores stand at just 38.25 and students on average have scored only 30.28 in mathematics. The students' average scores in English language are also at a mere 32.12, and the average scores in science as low as 34.28.
"Onet is rather easy. Still, students can't do it well," Utumporn said.

A total of 343,859 Grade-12 students sat in the Onet in the 2008 Academic Year.

Utumporn said the Grade-12 students' Onet average scores during the past four years showed schools did not improve their services based on what Onet scores had reflected.

"Actually, school directors and teachers must make some improvements," Utumporn said, "We will send a full analysis to each school so that all schools know about their strengths and weak points. Onet scores are effective indicators".

Utumporn added that the schools would also be informed of their ranking in the country, based on their students' performance in Onet.

At the Grade-6 level, students' average scores in Thai-language, mathematics and science subjects stand at 42.02, 43.76 and 51.86 respectively for the 2008 Academic Year.

At the Grade-9 level, students' average scores in Thai-language, social studies, mathematics, English-language and science subjects are at 41.03, 41.36, 34.56, 32.63 and 39.38 respectively in the same academic year.
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some more happy test scores, thai's own evaluation, as above is thai's own assessment, so no foreign prejudice, locals trying to point out the obvious, and falling on deaf ears.

education evaluation