Paddy

Hi everyone,

I'm an Aussie and have moved to Ireland permanently with my Irish husband and three (irish) kids.

On facebook today, in passing, I said "I think paddies must be superstitious because...blah blah". It was not meant to be offensive in any way - I was actually talking about how things come in threes and was bracing myself for said number 3.

Anyway, one of my good Irish friends went mental and basically said I was slagging off Irish people by using the term 'paddy'.

I need feedback from Irish people. Is it a derogatory term when it is used in a benign conext? Or is it a derogatory term full stop. I call my husband paddy all the time (not his name).

I just don't want to upset everyone.

Bex

Paddy, in British English, slang (often derogatory) for an Irishman

Not to be confused with "plastic paddy" which refers to non-Irish who act more Oirish than the Irish

Sweet Jaysus, you need to get yourself some less sensitive friends... Point out you've married one, produced three more and that he should stop having a paddy and pipe down.

The problem is pretty simple. The Irish, not unlike plenty of other nationalities, have a bit of a double standard when it comes to what they'll put up with. If an Irish person said that - although phrased as it is, it might be a bit unlikely - there wouldn't be a problem. However, coming from a foreigner, it would/could be seen as derogatory.

We don't really use the term 'paddy' to describe ourselves, although it's not completely unknown. We generally stick to 'Irish'. Remember that we're a well travelled people and because of our diaspora, particularly in the English-speaking world, most people have some knowledge or concept of the Irish. The problem is that this is often riddled with stereotypes and also the more exaggerated forms of cultural expression largely dreamed up by emigrants as a way of keeping up their identity. The point is, we (the native Irish) really don't like being patronised or stereotyped and because this happens to us quite a lot, we are liable to react.

The irony - and again the double standard - is that we'd often tolerate the same observations or humour from one of our own. If you walk around some Irish towns late on a weekend night, you might think there's plenty of justification for the drunken Irish stereotype - but I'd still think twice before commenting on it aloud with a foreign accent if you don't want people to take offence. Whilst I realise your husband is Irish, the point is you'll be regarded as Australian for quite a while, in the same way as I'm sure he's still regarded as Irish over there.

The name Paddy is often used when addressing or talking about a man named Patrick, probably as the Irish spelling is Padraig.
It´s a commonly used short version. An indication of familiarity. No more - no less.
The traditional Irish song ¨Paddy McGinty´s Goat¨ begins ´Mister Patrick McGinty, an Irishman of note, . . .

The name Paddy means ´Noble´ or ´Gallant´ So no real insult there.

The problem of possibly insulting someone comes when you consider the traditional use of the name / term ´Paddy´, especially by the English in countless ´Irish Jokes.´ which invariably make the Irishman out to be of a far lower intelligence than others.

Thanks everyone for your replies. Obviously I love Irish people as I live here and my family are Irish and I would never intentionally want to patronise or make jokes about or put down in any way, the Irish.

I guess the thing that makes me sad is that my Irish friend considers me an outsider. I unnderstand completely everyone else thinking that, though. So - advice is duly taken on board and I won't use the term again.

Thanks for your help guys,
Bex - the Aussie sheila ;)

I personally dont find it offensive at all,but some people might.It's no worse than calling a english person a pom or saying that Aussies are all convicts etc.You're friend must be very sensative!
P.S.Where in Oz are you from?I'm married to an Aussie and we have lived in both countries over the last few years.

Hey there Cleona :) I come from Sydney - don't know if that's where you lived but I lived in a suburb called Clovelly which is fairly near Bondi Beach. Funny, because my friend is such a close one that he is also the godfather of my first daughter. He said that it was ok for Irish people to use the name with each other but no one else ("it's like slagging off the family"). So basically, he's saying my husband, my kids, are allowed to say 'paddy' but I am most definitely not! I was just trying to figure out if I was over-reacting (in my head - you know, about feeling a little hurt by what he said). He knows I would never, ever willingly be mean or patronising to anyone. It's not in my nature! Sorry about that - rant over :-) Where abouts did you live in Aus?

#6 I always throught pom was non-offensive until one of my friends got really offended by it. Plenty of other British people I've talked to don't find pom offensive but this one guy did. I don't tend to say it anymore though.

I only find "pom" offensive if used (repeatedly) in a derogatory manner. Then I go tell them to go shag matilda (who was a sheep).

Hi Bex,We lived in Newtown and Neutral Bay.Hubby is from the Hunter Valley.Whereabouts in Ireland do you live?

Such a small world, isn't it? I live in Ennis :) BTW I also lived in Newtown - LOVED it. Very colourful.

As Barry says, we have a double standard approach to it.

Some people can be a bit sensitive to being called a Paddy by another nationality while if someone Irish says it, it's ok.

It's a bit like you slagging off your family but when someone else does it, it's offensive.

You would rarely hear Irish people actually refer to themselves as paddys and is more likely to be used as an insult or in a derogatory manner.

Hence your line: 'I think paddies must be supersitious' could sound a bit derogatory.

I

No Paddy is a no no was overused by the Brits, just slag him from whatever town he is from

Your 'good friend' sounds mental.

I would never get insulted if an Ozzie called me a Paddy. If an English guy said it, I would be. That's what history does :)
You need less sensitive friends.

And yes, the number three is extremely significant, in old Gaelic understanding the world was in 3 parts, the borders of which get fuzzy on the Autumn solstice (and thus we have Hallowe'en). Some of the bog bodies recovered have signs of ritual murder using three methods (IIRC one body was hit with 3 blows of an axe, and then strangled using a cord with 3 knots in it).

But not just in Gaelic beliefs - St. Patrick used a shamrock to explain... the Trinity.

Hi Bex,

I'm an Australian who has lived in Ireland for the last 15 years (from Glebe Point originally - small world)
At one stage I only had my Irish citizenship as my Australian citizenship had lapsed - but I only ever considered myself Australian (just got the official papers back recently)
I imagine that to your Irish friends you will always be Australian too - it's not shutting you out but it's just the fact of where you were born
I agree it's a double standard - but it's one I have myself - an Irish woman I knew married to an Aussie and who had lived there for a number of years started slagging off Australia and I started bristling inside!
I suppose there are just some cultural sore points that will get a reaction from the majority of people - it's not you, it's just a sensitive and loaded word
Anyway that's my 2 cents, even though I'm not Irish! ;-)

Kate

practically all my Irish friends use the word "paddy" to describe the Irish and don't object to me doing same
I get called a lot worse than that by them!
however they're almost all "working class" or rural, since we mostly met working in industrial jobs offshore and all over the world where if you can't take rough banter you may as well give up

however I've noticed that more middle class Irish, particularly Dubliners, particularly on web forums, particularly if they're the kind of people who were never likely to have suffered anti-Irish discrimination except in their heads, are now stating that it's offensive

Tell Paddy to have a cup of tea (Irish brekkie?), a Bex and a good lie down

Here ya go....