overland from Yunnan to Tibet to Nepal

Hi guys. will be overlanding from Singapore to India this Nov onwards. above is one of the few legs of my journey. this is also the one that i'm most unsure about. what is the current permit status for this? i look chinese and speak as well. i was hoping to gain entry with only a china visa and travel independently in and out to kathmandu.

even though i'm a technically a foreigner i was hoping to be able to go in without forking out the expensive sums for 4WD and permits and guides because i'm travelling on extreme budget. any advise? hope the veterans here are able to provide me some useful insights. thanks.

Possible? Perhaps. Likely? no.

Read this thread which is the only positive report of someone doing this: http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1957644

But also read this post which describes the more common happening: http://www.kekexili.typepad.com/

Ruth

if u use your passport, you cannot get the permits. Because overland from Chengdu/Yunnan is impossible this year.
However, if you look like a Chinese, and speak well, if u make a fake Chinese ID, then things seem ok.
However, it's a big risk. If you be catched, it would be serious.
Travelling in Tibet is not as easy as other places. I drove from Yunnan/Chengdu to lhasa this March, and drive back from Lhasa to Germu,Xining,Lanzhou,back Chengdu last month, things are still stick. So, better think twice before u done it.
Hope it helps.

Last june I met a older Russian man on his bike on the road to Shigatse. He had no permit. He had departed from Lanzhou on the bike and hadn't been controlled until the point I met him. He was planing to drive on to Nepal and at the border if asked for the permit he would just say he didn't have it. He was travelling at nearly no expenses and wasn't afraid of whatever. He had nearly no money, looked quite poor and was also not expecting being asked for a bribe to live the country.
Now I wouldn't advice anyone to do this. You are descendant of Chinese or was Chinese but since you hold a Singapore passport legally , or technically as you call it you are just a foreigner and not chinese.So don't try anything stupid or dangerous.

I haven't been to Tibet recently, but I was there in 2008 for a month and again in 2009. I am a Hong Kong Chinese and can travel in Tibet by myself. I have been to the West, a bit in the North and also to the South. Had to pass many check points where I had to show them my id. Also wouldn't recommend you for example to try to hide yourself in a truck, since it can have serious consequences for the driver if the police finds out.

looks like everyone is against it. i kinda know what to do now. but would be nice to hear some stories of people here who've done it w/o a permit.

but would be nice to hear some stories of people here who've done it w/o a permit.

You won't hear many stories these days because there aren't many who try this. I suspect that the failures don't write about it and the successes are few. The military and police checkpoints are numerous so the chances of getting through are slim.

Ruth

why is overlanding from shangrila to lhasa unavailable now? anyone knows?
but i will actually be leaving for tibet around late jan to early feb next yr 2011.

overlanding from shangrila to lhasa unavailable now

Overland to Tibet has not been possible without a prearranged tour with guide and driver for years. It is not simply now, this week or this month, and the situation is unlikely to change any time in the foreseeable future, not next month or next year.

Ruth

let's say i were to hire my own guide and driver and depart from deqen, is that possible? if so is there a recommended agency in shangrila i can contact?

in an effort to stay on budget, i plan to only visit lhasa where i can still take public transport and then leave for nepal border to kathmandu. is it cheaper to hire a guide and driver when i'm in tibet or to stick to the initial guide and driver?

thanks for the comments. it will go a long way in helping since the policy in tibet now is so strict.

let's say i were to hire my own guide and driver and depart from deqen, is that possible? if so is there a recommended agency in shangrila i can contact?

You can't simply hire a guide and driver. You need to arrange everything through a travel agency that can obtain the Tibet Trvel Bureau permit. The cost will be quite high.

in an effort to stay on budget, i plan to only visit lhasa where i can still take public transport and then leave for nepal border to kathmandu. is it cheaper to hire a guide and driver when i'm in tibet or to stick to the initial guide and driver?

Again, all travel to, within and departing Tibet must be arranged prior to obtaining the Tibet Travel Bureau permit. The permit indicates your plans. You can't simply get to Tibet and then arrange a guide and driver.

This won't save you any money as the cost of the guide and driver and travel to and within Tibet is very high and you won't be sharing the costs with other travelers.

There is no true budget way to get to Tibet and cross to Nepal. What is budget for Tibet is high for elsewhere in China. The cheapest way to do this is to go to Chengdu or Xining and join a group spending 5-7 days traveling from Lhasa to the border.

Re think your plans.

Ruth

Actually, when I was in Tibet last year I saw a note in a youth hostel from foreigners looking for other travelers to share a car with. I was quite surprised to see this note, since (like Ruth has said) you need to pre-arrange your whole tour before entering Tibet. So you visa is for a certain amount of days and it's not possible to extend your stay in Tibet itself. So I asked the staff of the guesthouse about this and they were quite vague about this.

The reason why I wanted to know this because my foreigner friend was in Kathmandu at that moment trying to find other travelers for a 3 week tour through Tibet. He was searching for a month and in the end he decided to go by himself. He paid 4000 USD for the whole tour (from Lhasa down south and then to Ali (West-Tibet) and back via Nam Tso). Food and hotel not included. He also tried to arrange a short tour to Lhasa first for a couple of days just to get into Tibet and then to arrange the tour to West Tibet by himself, but this was not allowed.

I did basically almost the same tour as him but for over 2 weeks for I think around 250 EUR pp. I shared the car with 4 other persons, so 1250 EUR in total but without food and hotel (Chinese price). Anyway, it's also more expensive to arrange it from Kathmandu, cheaper to arrange it from China, like for example Chengdu.

I believe that the price for Kathmandu-Lhasa was around 800 EUR (price in Kathmandu). I can't remember for how many days, but I think it was for around a week.

Overland routes from Yunnan and Sichuan are closed because they go through Chamdo, which has been off-limits for some time now. It's unclear when it will open again. You can still overland from the north (for example, from Xining down through Nagchu), from the west (from Kashgar) or from the south (from Kathmandu). You'll need to arrange a tour package to do any of these routes, but overlanding to Lhasa is still possible.

The overland route from Yunnan to Lhasa is not open to foreign travelers. The stretch of road from Shangri La to Dechen is only open once every ten days, though there is an alterate route that is much longer. Also, Chamdo prefecture has been closed nearly all year and no date has been set for it to reopen. Be aware that if you are caught in these closed, restricted areas, the consequences could be severe. The route from Yunnan to Lhasa goes through several highly restricted military zones (due to border disputes with India) and the police have come down hard on illegal travelers in this region in the past.

hopefully when i'm at shangrila next yr in jan/feb it will be open.
if it's still closed, what is the cheapest alternative?

my plan is just to maybe get a train/bus and get into lhasa, stay for a few days and then travel to the nepal border and continue on my journey to india.

flying may not really be an option because my whole trip from singapore to india is going to be overland and as much as possible try to stick to that.

wanderlustkid

Maybe look at this thread: Crossing Tibet (Golmud – Nepal) without permit – update 2010

hopefully when i'm at shangrila next yr in jan/feb it will be open.

It is extremely unlikely that you will be able to travel overland by bus from Shangrila.
Legally it is impossible to take a bus into Tibet and then travel on your own to the border.

if it's still closed, what is the cheapest alternative?

Realistically your options are to take a train from Chengdu or Xining to Lhasa and to join a tour from there to the border. There is no cheap way to do this. To even get on the train you will need to Tibet Travel permit. To get the permit you will need a tour. Tours must be prearranged and will include a guide and driver with car. The cheapest way will be to join a group so that the fixed costs are shared.

flying may not really be an option because my whole trip from singapore to india is going to be overland and as much as possible try to stick to that.

Of course flying is an option. It's just one that you stubbornly don't want to consider, but the reality is that it will be cheaper to fly to India than to travel overland. Much cheaper.

Ruth

haha yea i'm stubborn i admit. will go all the way with the best of my ability to do it overland. the experience of it is something that's hard to come by. besides flying leaves such a tremendous amount of carbon footprint. thanks for the tips. it gives me a better idea of what i should do and the options i have.

I couldn't agree more. Your stubbornness may get you into big trouble if you insist on travelling that way. And the truth is Singapore Chinese and China people speak and look differently in many ways. I guess you also know this yes?

I'd suggest that you think twice before taking any action. Well, you may let us know how successful your trip will be when you're back. Good luck.

This kept popping up in my searches as I too was quite keen on the overland trip from Yunnan to Tibet so thought I would post an update.

I've contacted a few Chinese tour companies in the last week who had this trip on their websites, and they've all advised that this route is still closed to foreigners and that this closure is indefinite.

I'm heading over to the Yunnan area in May and will post an update if I hear anything different/new when I'm there, but would suggest to those interested in this trip in the future to get in touch with a few of the tour companies to get an update on the situation directly, they respond within a day or two (and of course, then post an update).

Advice I've received has been either to fly to Lhasa or go via train from Chengdu.