Negative posts

I have read some very negative posts by SportsArtist ( Christiaan Bekker) - he sounds like an Ex-South African with a chip on his shoulder.

They are :

..in short! South Africa is not a safe place to travel and it doesn't matter where you go in that country! I lived there for a very long time and my advice will be for you to look somewhere else to travel...

... do your homework first! SA is the crime capital of the world!...

He then writes on the American post

Hi everyone

I need some advice with regards to the weather conditions throughout the USA. Which parts of the country have mild winters and mild summers? I'll be traveling on a permanent basis with a travel trailer. Any suggestions will be appreciated!

Thanks

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"When something is created, it is not art. It only becomes art when it is appreciated by someone other than the artist."

What do other people think of this

Hi James

This is what I replied to him on his previous post :

Well what a negative reply from SportsArtist. Sports Artist ????? I wonder what made you so negative ? Are you an expat living in the USA ? If SA was such a dangerous place, what made you stay so long ????

I am not in denial about the crime rate in SA, but then neither am I in denial that it is bad all over the world - Chicago has a higher crime rate than Soweto.

Safety is pretty relative - so where would you consider safe ? Iran, Iraq and Afganistan are out of the question for obvious reasons, and so to is any country that has Oil, for the same reasons. South East Asia has avian flu & then there is always the posibilty of a tsunami. Korea, Guatemala, Cuba, Libya, El Salvador Nicaragua, Chile and Sudan need a regime change according to the only super power - this will also includes Zimbawe, but for other reasons as well. Brasil, Papua New Guinea and Nigeria, you can forget - there crime rate is just as high. Burundi, Cote d Ivoire, Congo, Liberia & Somalia have either a civil war or unrest. The rest of the countries in Africa -not safe due to Malaria, Aids, Cholera or TB. Haiti - also civil unrest.

U.S. Department of State's Travel Warnings list includes : Philippines,Zimbabwe, Liberia ,Côte d'Ivoire'
Algeria ,Libya ,Bosnia-Herzegovina ,Sudan ,Burundi 'Somalia ,Kenya ,Iran ,Afghanistan ,Nepal ,Iraq ( But not SA )

Pakistan is a so-called haven for terrorists and Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and Indonesia would also be included as unsafe - I suppose why don't we say all Islamic countries.

Columbia has the drug wars or narco-terrorists as some people like to call them.

Israel & the middle east have a on going war and Kyrgyzstan has clashes between pro-government and opposition forces.

Europe, USA and Australia are terrorist targets due to there involvement in the Iraq War, so that to makes them unsafe

Are there any countries I've left out ? Oh Yes - lets say all coastal countries, due to global warming, I think that about wraps it up.

SportsArtists, I think the whole world is unsafe for you, so best stay in bed and not travel

I"ve met hundreds of people that have travelled through Africa, myself included, and have done so safely.
I met one particular woman, who was travelling on her own around the world. She had just come through Africa. The only trouble she had, was when she was mugged in the Vatican City.

he's just trying to wind you up. ignore him.

"throughout the USA" "I'll be traveling on a permanent basis with a travel trailer"
"What do other people think of this"

If he wants to do that, he's a nutter.

I came here in 1995 from England when everyone else was going in the other direction.

I live here because I like it.

It is a fantastic country and a great place to live.

Of course there are problems, we have 60% unemployment where I live in Port Elizabeth.

We need overseas visitors, and when they come they have a great time and are not affected by the crime.

South african Tours and Safaris

What carolineb says.

He confuses the crime rate with the risk to tourists. They are not linked directly.

OP: everyone is entitled to their own opinions and, on an open forum like this, to express those opinions.

Play the ball, not the man.

That tourists are not affected by the crime in South Africa is a load of crock. There are enough cases of murder, rape and muggings on record. But tourists are our best hope to get something done about it. It may sound like tourists are being lured here to bait the beast, but I don't believe this is so. Going to "strange places" involves a higher risk simply because exploring is part of the deal. And tourists always stand out like red thumps. So tourists, all over the world, must simply be aware that they are prey for certain elements in any society. And I truly don't believe that SA tops the list. I've seen and lived through worse.

Negativity in a person is, of course, the effect of personal experience and anybody with an axe to grind on the matter of security is most welcome to do so because only through embarrassing those dickheads who make statements like "Whoever doesn't like the crime is welcome to leave the country" will eventual change be wrought.

In the end, it doesn't change what SA has to offer to the responsible and open eyed traveller and so, I believe, it will continue. And to be quite honest, we, who live here, are facing much greater risks of "discomfort" from the ineptitude of how this country is being managed and run politically. The fact that certain approval processes required by law take up to and more than 6 months to go through is like treason by virtue of economic sabotage if such processes prevent the applicants from generating income and taxes thereon. That's what I'm worried about. The crime rate I can deal with directly.

bundubasher, I agree in principle (#6). But there is a considerable difference between expressing an informed opinion when asked about the subject, and just jumping into any old thread where the OP has asked for some travel advice and the word "crime" hasn't even been mentioned. By anyone. For example a request to comment on an itinerary, nine relevant replies, then the idiot posts his diatribe. Or a question about a specific accommodation. That time he "achieved" reply #1. As you said, play the ball. But keep to the sport (topic).

The consolation is that if continues in that vein, he's not gonna last long.

i'd better not open my mouth otherwise 'furious' will be after me!!! hehehe ;-)

I do not know the poster in question's history, but to start a thread discussing/castigating that poster is a personal attack and doesn't that go against the TT's "Terms of Use"? Surely there are more interesting things to discuss?

On reflection, good point bb. But because of course it just gives him more publicity. (Cross-ref: "Feeding The Troll".) We should have (shall?) gone the correct route. pm to Roman.

Is there any other country in the world where ex residents trash their country in such a way ?.

We put up with this rubbish every day.

Plenty of problems in Paris, do we see loads of posts from ex French living in the states saying don’t visit Paris ? Not at all.

South Africa is fantastic. End of story.

South African Tours and Safaris

In case you haven't noticed, Sport Artist has been replying to posts on another thread. The original one where he just said SA has bad crime. Seems he is an artist. And an ex-SA cop, so knows what he's talking about....

No vested interests, hey colin? :)

I live in South Africa because I want to.

I get really fed up listening to people saying the usual negative things, instead of helping make things better.

I also organise township tours taking visitors to places white South Africans do not dream of going and have never had a problem.

South African Tours and Safaris

This thread has taught me quite a lot.
I know now that some posters get pursued through different threads if they don't hype the general sentiment.
I've discovered the "troll" in me.
The one or other may actually go off and tell on somebody for being "naughty" about the terms.
Some consider themselves to be the penultimate instance before eternal wisdom and therefore always put things "right", and then some, proffering guidance on how to live one's life.
Well, why not . . . Makes it all the more colourful for all I care.

But there is something that intrigues me about colind. So, here I go trolling along for all it's worth.

When people write something the reader forms a mental picture of the writer, which, more often than not, is probably totally wrong. But nevertheless it has influence over the response and may turn it into a retort. I admit to being guilty of that. But anyway - colind, I'd like to ask you something in the way of the impression I've formed about you on the strength of what you posted in this thread.

Am I correct in assuming that you are -
A non-white Brit, who is happy to be allowed to live in SA, and not an illegal alien.
You are living in a Township around PE where unemployment stands at 60 %.
You are making a living out of taking tourist to your personal haunts, "where no white South African ever dreams of going to", and, by extension, that these places are also not to be found on any "regular" tour itinerary or tour brochure.
That you are running your "business" as a sole proprietorship and without Public Driving Permit and Road Transport Permit and outside the supervision (membership) of any governing body.
That you are not exactly a shining example as a tax payer but nevertheless want to make things better.

Am I right so far? Correct me if I'm wrong. In the end it doesn't matter to me and I'd say go for it, even if I'm right. But I sure like to know more about those places you take people to which are of such nature that they totally escape imagination. Of course your personal happiness about these places is only half the story. One would also need to ask those tourist who've come back from these jaunts what they have to say about it. But this is something we'll certainly never will find out about. But I'm just a little curious about it.

Just hypothetically, if, even against all odds, something should happen to one of your tourists, where it would have been avoidable by keeping them out of harms way, what would be your reaction to that?

P.S. The French who are leaving their country are going to the UK and moan from there, not from the US (source: TIME Magazine).

"Some consider themselves to be the penultimate instance before eternal wisdom"

I must remember that sentence, it sounds really good.
Now all I have to do is work out what it means.

No I am a white Brit, with permanent residency in SA, which took forever and was difficult to get.

I don't live in a Township and would not.

I have a company, have the transport permit which also takes for ever to get.

Sorry also pay tax, SARS here is the South African Revenue Service not an Asian flu.

I have a Professional Drivers Permit and employ a township tour guide, who is a registered tour guide who also has a PDP and have others similarly qualified when need be.

I am a member of SATSA which is as close to a governing body as we have.

Have 5 million accident cover for tourists in the vehicle and 5 million public liability insurance.

Loads of happy clients have many emails, generaly they find the townships rather sad but vibrant and certainly not unsafe.

I don't make a living out of it, I enjoy showing people South Africa.

Does out of harms way mean moving to Southend and offering tours of the city ?

South African Tours and Safaris

Good point about SARS - :>) - but just like Asian Flue they can be quite a pain, sometimes. But if you don't make a living out of your Tour Business, you are a non-profit organisation and shouldn't have much of a problem in that quarter anyway.

Not living in a Township as a White Emigrant is a good and sensible choice, and since you emphasize that you "would not", you are also aware of the reasons. Seeing that you employ a "Township Tour Guide" to take the tourists to those places "white South Africans don't dream of" makes good sense. Particularly so, if the tour guide looks like the Township Residents and can count on their natural sympathies as one of them. Accords the tourists some protection, too, I'd say. But this point still troubles me a bit, since it seems as if you are avoiding the gauntlet yourself, but are sending the tourists on their "merry fact finding mission". But like you say, they are still happy about it when they come back and would presumably do it again. But then, couldn't a white South African masquerade as a tourist and also go on one of your tours to those ominous places you mentioned before, if he should ever have a mind of doing so? Maybe this is an untapped market?

Anyway, I wish you well and that your tourists will only have happy memories of their stay in SA. Like I said before, this is what we need to counter the "negative element" which unfortunately does exist. And if we can move the proportion from one negative incident in a hundred to one in a thousand and beyond, we, as a country will all be winning and may eventually even attract real investors who come here to build factories and create the much needed jobs and not just let their money play around on the stock exchange and interest accounts. If you contribute to that, you are doing a great job! But this is what I meant by "keeping them out of harms way" to make sure that the proportion of "happy to unhappy" prospers positively and not inversely.

There are several German volunters that live happily in the Township.

Our tour guide is a comunity leader and indeed lives in the Township, the tourists are taken to the craft centre which helps the unemployed, they are taken to the guides house for a meal and to a shebben which is hand picked for the job.

Quite a few big companies take there employees on township tours so they get to see the other side of the country.

South Africa is still a very strange place and the longer you live here the more normal you think it is.

I came here with one of the big investors who built lots of factories and decided to stay.

Exchange rate fluctuation and the extremelly high interest rate are as much obstacles to growth as the crime rate.

The original post was to warn people to stay away because it is not safe.

People should come and help us make the place even better, they will find the country great and they are no more likely to affected by crime here than anywhere else in the world.

South African Tours and Safaris

"Some consider themselves to be the penultimate instance before eternal wisdom"

OnlyMark: I am the eternal wisdom! So you better listen to what I have to say and then p*** off hehe :P

Clarification

So Lecap is eternal wisdom at #21
Which means the instance before eternal wisdom would be post #20
And the penultimate instance before eternal wisdom would be post #19

Therefore Topogigio would be the official penultimate instance before eternal wisdom, which explains why he was so cross with ColinD for trying to steal his thunder.

Do I have that right ?

LOL gengis - I think you're quite right!

So who would be the penultimate last poster but one?
My head hurts.
Thanks genghis for the clarification.

lecap - I always listen to what you say. I examine it in great depth and derive what meaning, if any, I can from it. Though if you are the eternal wisdom, then I readily accept that I wont always follow you, it may be just too cerebral for me.
I am but a humble mechanic, have pity on us lesser mortals.