Moving to Mexico

Greetings!!!!! Im new to this site. Im a 51 year old retired African American from the US ARMY. Im considering moving to Mexico n 2018. Does anybody have an opinion on African Americans moving to Mexico, if so, WHERE????? What about transportation? Im leaving my vehicles in Florida.

My wife is black and seems to be accepted most places in Mexico but especially in the larger more sophisticated cities in Mexico such as Guanajuato, Puerto Vallarta, Mexico City etc. However we noticed some hostility in a few places notably Uruapan and other inland spots.
There are pockets of African settlements of both coasts including an area South of Acapulco but rather primitive.
As a side bar she gets lots of "looks" and even gets hit on fairly often . It actually is a bit of a kick to watch it.

Im planning on moving to MEXICO in March 2018. If theyre any American Expats that can assist me with affordable 1 bedroom studios for RENT and recommendations that would be a great fit for me as a African American male. Any and ALL contacts, phone numbers etc.. will be appreciated. <snip> Eddie Thank you

I have several afro-american friends here, in Puerto Vallarta, who are permanent residents and I know one is ex-armed forces, never heard of any problems at all. Will email you.

Does anybody have an opinion on African Americans moving to Mexico, if so, WHERE?????

There are some communities of Afro-Mexicans on the Oaxaca coast. Would you be comfortable moving there?

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Ive heard Oaxaca have a Afro Mexican township but I didnt know they have a US African American community in Oaxaca. This is totally new to me.

There isn´t a US African American community in Oaxaca that I know of.

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I'm sorry, I did read your statement wrong but yes. Where is the most highly concentrated of Afro Mexicans live in Oaxaca. I would love to check out those areas. Thanks

From what I´ve seen, Afro-Mexicans live mostly along the Oaxaca coast between Puerto Escondido and Pinotepa Nacional, for example: Chacahua. But there are also communities in Guerrero, Veracruz, and elsewhere in Mexico.

Are you moving down there to get married? Be forewarned, child-brides cost upwards of 10,000 USD. And of course it´s illegal.

Where did that come from?

No mam, I'm moving there to maximize my American dollar & lifestyle. I've worked very hard all my life after spending nearly 25 years in the Army so I want to see what Mexico has to offer. Not saying I wont date anyone because I most certainly will. The woman must be independent, stable and secured with her life in order, drama free. Thanks for everything.

I apologize. Im not sure if youre male or female so If I address you incorrectly, please forgive me.

Wrong person. Someone else just message me and by mistake i went you the message. Im sorry

I've successfully led American university students, some who are African-American, on study abroad trips to Mexico. Four or five of those African-American students lived with local families while studying for a month in Morelia, the capital of the state Michoacan during 2004. Like their Anglo-American companions. those African-American university students sometimes experienced culture shock in Mexico. And, at times they found speaking Spanish rather than English all the time to be exhausting and challenging. After being in Mexico for a while an African-American student remarked to me that at home they were considered (both by themselves and others) to be 'Black', but in Mexico their status was slightly different.

Mexicans are not color blind, but neither do they obsess about race in quite the same way that many people do here in the USA. To Mexicans the most salient thing about my African-American students was that they were North Americans, in other words gringos/gringas.

I find some of Ned Crouch's comments, made in his book "Mexicans and Americans; Cracking the Cultural Code" thought provoking. Observing that "Culture is not color." he says:

"Anglo does not refer to genes but to culture. An African American going to Mexico takes along Anglo culture...In the eyes of Mexicans, we Americans are all Anglos because they see our culture more clearly than they see our color. In fact its easy to mislabel people who fall outside the usual frame of reference. When an African American visited Copper Canyon, one of the shy Tarahumara Indians commented, "That is the blackest white man I have ever seen."

How well you adjust to Mexican culture, and also to speaking Spanish, may have more impact on your successful settlement in Mexico than will your selection of a town or city in which to live. I recommend that you travel for a while in Mexico, and/or do some short stays before moving. And, taking Spanish classes there for a while, early on, could be very useful.

Wow!!!!!! You are extremely brilliant. Thank you, while I digest your brilliance to the bitter end. So what State & township would you recommend?

"So what State & township would you recommend?"

As Stewbear may imply, back in post #2, Mexicans could, on average, be a bit more open minded and accepting of exotic outsiders in larger more cosmopolitan places in Mexico than is the case in some smaller towns and rural areas.

Each person's tastes differ from those of others. Neither I nor anyone here on Thorn Tree can discern what places would be ideal for you, either as potential travel destinations or as settlement locations. You need to figure that out for yourself. Start by perusing guide books, posts here on Thorn Tree Mexico Branch, and web sites about "moving to Mexico". Then spend some time in Mexico..

I'm agree with #18. In my opinion, this is something you have to decide by yourself. Discrimination still exists in all the corners of the world, but luckily, open minded people are increasing their numbers around the globe. You'll always find both sides. Just choose a place you find ideal to achieve your future goals; Mexico city, Oaxaca, you have some options; and try to make the best of it.

Have you ever been to Mexico, and if so, where? Did you like it? What about Mexico is appealing to you? Do you need to be near an airport for easy trips back? Do you prefer bigger cities or smaller? Do you want to be near a beach? Does it have to be warm all the time, or could live at higher altitudes that are cooler in the winter?

That might help to narrow things down.

Yes, Ive been to Mexico a couple of times. I did training in Reynosa for 2 years when I was in the military. I constantly hear how the US dollar will go a lot further in Mexico. Im a single man, all my kids are grown & married now so its really dont make any reason to limit my lifestyle & the purchasing power of the US dollar. So, its makes economical sense to move if I can get more for my money should I want to build or make good investments in order to live comfortable in Mexico.

I would prefer a warmer climate but Ill go to where I can maximize the dollar while taking safety in consideration. I do apologize for sending you that message but another person ask me about marriage which caught me off guard.

So, its makes economical sense to move if I can get more for my money should I want to build or make good investments in order to live comfortable in Mexico.

I strongly urge you to rent a place to live in Mexico, as opposed to investing.

Ok, thank you so much. Do you have any realtors in mind or when you out can you jot down potential rental options that may be available in your outings. Thanks again

I suggest you look for a place locally, that is, after you arrive and found a city or town you like. San Miguel de Allende, Oaxaca, and Merida all have English libraries, and these can be helpful in finding a place to live in those communities.

Ok. GOTCHA

But no beach ! I also agree on renting, in the long run it can be cheaper than buying.

I think you need to spend some time traveling around the country and seeing what areas work best for you. I've been to Reynosa but not since 1979, border towns are really very different than the interior. Do you speak Spanish?

Imagine if someone said to you, "I want to move the USA, where should I live?" and gave not much detail -- that's sort of what you're doing, albeit with Mexico. Like the USA, Mexico has many different climates (dry, tropical, mountain, desert), types of living (rural, big city, small city), etc. So really I think you need to spend some time traveling the country finding what best suits you.

Ok, that makes a lot of sense. I'm reading how Expats never visited but decisions was based on referrals from other Americans who live in Mexicans, like Jerry Brown and other expats. I agree on what you said. Its always to actually visit and find the best place that's compatible to me & my needs.

Another good book for those who are Mexico-bound, be it renting or otherwise, is Tony Cohan's 'On Mexican time.'
I am done. The end.

Ok, I'll go to Books A Million today for book. Thanks

Thanks everyone for such great response

I suggest you look for a place locally, that is, after you arrive and found a city or town you like. San Miguel de Allende, Oaxaca, and Merida all have English libraries, and these can be helpful in finding a place to live in those communities.

Guanajuato also has an active FREE (unlike some) English language library although cash donations are accepted. It is also a great place to volunteer your time making you a member of the small but active Expat community.

Guanajuato also has an active FREE (unlike some) English language library although cash donations are accepted. It is also a great place to volunteer your time making you a member of the small but active Expat community.

We have one as well in PV - Biblioteca Los Mangos.

Wow! Thats awesome! Do you have any specific contact of a realtor who is able to assist with a rental?

I'm assuming you've verified that you meet the immigration requirements of Mexico. That's the first step. Secondly, my observation has been that, generally, there's a lot of discrimination in Mexico based on the depth of one's skin color. Mexicans are very judgmental and prejudiced. The darker your skin, the lower one is on the economic scale ... is what I've observed (of the reaction of Mexicans to one another). Thirdly, yes, rent before buying. Maybe never buy. How much Spanish do you speak? If none, or just a little ... study before arriving in Mexico and when you arrive study more. You won't be comfortable living in Mexico without some decent command of the language (it'll cost you a lot more to live in Mexico if you don't speak Spanish, too). Since this is basically a tourism forum you might want to cross post your questions to the online expatforums Mexico Expat Forum where you'll find responses from expats living in Mexico. Best of luck.

LW

What part of Mexico have you noticed and witness the racism against people of color? Most of the Expat Ive talked to said RACE will not be a problem for the most part. I really appreciate your comment and thanks for enlighten me on this. I will do more & more research on the race issue against people of color. Im really surprise because the Costa Chica STATES are predominantly AFRO MEXICANS who some of them have really really dark skin. Thats interesting!!!! Thank you so much

"...my observation has been that, generally, there's a lot of discrimination in Mexico based on the depth of one's skin color. Mexicans are very judgmental and prejudiced. The darker your skin, the lower one is on the economic scale ... is what I've observed (of the reaction of Mexicans to one another)..." LW

This mirrors comments about individuals' skin tone that I've heard made within my wife's Mexican-American family. And, preference for light skin tones and European appearance is very evident in Mexican cinema and advertising. I find Alice Walker's concept of 'colorism', which is not quite the same thing as 'racism', useful. Unfortunately colorism is not confined to Mexico or the USA; it is found many places around the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_based_on_skin_color

Keeping Mexico's Afro-Mexican Heritage in Perspective---In Mexico when people have dark complexions they are usually perceived as having Native-American rather than African ancestry. In reality that tends to be true. During Mexico's Spanish colonial era native-Americans vastly out numbered both Europeans and enslaved Africans. According to one estimate, even at their colonial era peak, African slaves only constituted 4% of Mexico's population.

If you have not already seen it, you might find Henry Lewis Gates' video series "Black in Latin America" interesting. Here is link to his episode about Mexico's African slave history and contemporary 'Black' population. Interestingly, as he focuses attention on that story Gates ignores Mexico's more pivotal history, interactions between Europeans, Native-Americans and Mestizos that have occurred during the past five hundred years.

Yes, arguably the histories of all of Mexico's minority groups are worth telling, including not only the the stories of Afro-Mexicans but also those of descendants of closeted Inquisition era Jews, Cornish miners, and Chinese immigrants. But, contemporary Mexican national identity is not derived very much from those minority group histories, fascinating as they may be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIzHIRCBtdE

Im really surprise because the Costa Chica STATES are predominantly AFRO MEXICANS who some of them have really really dark skin

Only a few percent of the population of Guerrero and Oaxaca, the Costa Chica states, identify as AfroMexican. They are a small minority. And I´ve found racism against locals with darker skin is widespread. Because I´ve seen so few Black Americans down here traveling (and none living here), I can´t comment on how they´d treat a gringo.

arguably the histories of all of Mexico's minority groups are worth telling

I believe I read this book a couple of years ago and really enjoyed it. ¨Land of the cosmic race race mixture, racism, and blackness in Mexico,¨ written by Sue, Christina A., published in New York by Oxford University Press, 2013.

Thank you so much.......Ill see if Books A Million have it today

Wow, what area are you living? Also, in your opinion, why is that?

So few Black Americans in YOUR area, small % of locals who identify themselves as Afro Mexicans....etc WHY? Solely your opinion, may I ask.

You´re more likely to find the book I mentioned (or a similar one) on the shelves of your nearest university library. Most universities have a commitment to community and will loan books under certain conditions even if you´re not registered as a student there.

I do not live in Mexico. I visit as a tourist. As for why so few Black Americans visit Mexico (if indeed it´s true, but it´s certainly my observation), I am reminded of some conversations I had with Frank, the chess cartel leader, a few years back. Frank got his PhD in African studies, so I suppose he was as qualified as any. We agreed that perhaps the primary reason was that Blacks saw Hispanics as the primary competitors for jobs in USA, so didn´t feel particularly enthused about visiting Hispanic cultures while on holiday. Whether this is true or not is hard to say; I´ve never seen any studies about it. I have to admit I was perplexed by the earlier comment that expats told you skin colour wasn´t an issue. I heard about a survey of Americans during your recent presidential election that found 90% of Americans blamed Blacks and the Poor for ruining their society. And just look at who´s in your jails if you have any more doubt.

No, relatively speaking, many Mexicans in the state I´m visiting, that is Oaxaca, identify as AfroMexican (but not as many as Guerrero), still it´s still only a tiny amount, several percent.

Not all expats are from the USA !

Many of the "Afro-Mestizos" are descendants of slaves brought to Mexico. The "Costa Chica" of both Guerrero and Oaxaca probably have the largest concentration of Afro-Mestizos. The Municipio of Cuajinicuilapa, Guerrero is reported to be the home to 50,000+ such persons. Acapulco has a very large Afro-Mestizo presence, and many African-Americans visit there in groups ... or did so in larger numbers before the Mexican terrorism problem.

However, you won't likely find much connection in lifestyles or sympathy between the Afro-Mestizo's and African-Americans. Very different cultures. Peoples in the Afro-Mestizo communities of Guerrero, Oaxaca and Veracruz are suspicious of all outsiders ... including African-Americans.

Afro-Mestizos, and blacks generally, in Mexico tend to be at the bottom of the economic scale ... and discrimination against indigenous and poor, and blacks in Mexico is rampant in much of the country from what I've witnessed. Blacks may be welcomed open-armed in White expat, progressive political communities, and amongst Canadian expats ... but don't confuse the politically liberal expat community with the broader Mexican community.

There have been several prominent, successful Afro-Mestizo political leaders and businesspersons, nationally ... however.

LW

Wow, that's so amazing. I didn't know that. I cant say enough about how much I do appreciate the education you're providing. I knew about the high % of Afro Mexicans on the Pacific Coast, specifically in the State of Guerrero & Oaxaca but in regards to racism, discrimination and the fact that even Afro Mexicans are suspicious of outside blacks was very new to me. I'm really confused and having second thoughts about visiting let alone moving. I just read that a another American from California was shot (gun down) in the state of Guerrero. He was in some beach town where a lot of Americans visit. The man was only there to visit while on the Christmas break an his life was taken. I'm puzzled, sadden and disturbed. I understand that there is violence everywhere but for me to go to foreign soil alone, scares me. Being black, I'm not sure where I would fit in. I'm retired, I have a decent pension at the age of 51 but even at that I'm worried for such transition to Mexico.

Acapulco has always been a dodgy place and the whole state of Guerrero, come to that. But it's a big country, I'll bet there are parts of the US you would avoid as well. Don't overreact.

Cuba comes to mind as a country that´s safer generally, has a more posive Black bias, well educated and healthy citizenry, and low cost of living for locals, (but high cost for foreigners). Don´t know if Americans can easily visit there, much less retire there.

I ran across a few Afro-Mexican people in Tlacotalpan, in Veracruz. In fact, one man made a point of telling me this. I don't know what % of residents would identify themselves that way.

I rarely see African-American tourists in Mexico, but I no longer visit the most popular tourist places like Cancun or Cabo San Lucas.

I was just in Cartagena Colombia for Christmas, that's a place that has a wide blend of colors, and an African-American wouldn't stand out, at least based on color. Though I know little about the Colombian culture and whether there's racism there or not.

Were not allowed to spend our money there because of the embargo and strict laws that's being applied against the Cuban economy.

Yes and the USA government makes it extremely expensive and time consuming to renounce your citizenship. They will tax you and try to control your life forever, wherever you reside.

I ran across a few Afro-Mexican people in Tlacotalpan, in Veracruz. In fact, one man made a point of telling me this. I don't know what % of residents would identify themselves that way.

In French-Mexican War, Nubian Egyptians were sent into the Rio Papalopan delta region (including Tlacotalpan and Alvarado) to fight for France because other soldiers were felled by tropical diseases the Nubians were not impacted by. So it's the Nubian influence that one sees in that region ... more so than Afro-Mestizos ... IMO.

That region also has a strong Chilean genetic influence (due to a cargo ship from Chile being stranded off the cost of Alvarado for a year and sexual relationships with locals), and also American (USA) genetic influence due to the U.S. soldiers that were stationed in the area along the Rio during the Mexico-American War.

When we discuss that part of Veracruz, and Veracruz generally, I miss the contributions of John Todd ... a former contributor on the TTMB who lived in Veracruz and was a local historian.

LW

Being black, I'm not sure where I would fit in. I'm retired, I have a decent pension at the age of 51 but even at that I'm worried for such transition to Mexico.

Nobody here is going to have the answers you seem to be looking for. You should be commended for the amount of research you're doing, and for the questions you're asking. Identify a location/city/town that you think greatly interests you (for reasons other than skin color) ... and rent an apartment/house to live-in. If you don't like the area or the people don't seem to respond to you in a manner you expect ... simply move-on to someplace else. There's no one set formula that applies to us all ... white, black, brown ... or yellow.

I don't know that you've answered my earlier comment ... about qualifying for a visa to reside in Mexico. Have you worked-through the regulations, yet?

LW

p.s.: Have you looked at a copy of the "People's Guide to Mexico"? If not, there's probably a copy in your local public library.

Yes, I have my temp resident card

You'll always be a gringo no matter your race. And as such, that'll be a bigger factor in how you're treated by locals. Even in Afro-Mexican communities, you'll always be an outsider. I think there's too much analysis-paralysis going on here.

Thanks for the response.

LW

For interest: last night I attended the Mexican workshop of the project ¨Anti-Racismo en America Latina en una Era Post-Racial¨ presented at the San Pablo Cultural Centre in Oaxaca, and talked briefly to the director Peter Wake from the University of Cambridge. One of the findings of their studies was that class dominates race, which include Mexico, Ecuador, Colombia and Brasil. Anyone interested in learning more about this can check out their website: https://www.lapora.sociology.cam.ac.uk/about

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