Lhasa to Nepal, March/April 2011

Hi guys,

I'm looking for some travelling companions to do a tour from Lhasa to the Nepalese border around March/April 2011. I'm pretty flexible with regards to itinerary, other than the fact that i need to finish the tour in Nepal or at the border, as I'm trying to get from London to India overland.

I'm also on a budget so am wanting to keep the cost down, so basic accommodation and a more direct route would definitely be my ideal choice, but I'm open to suggestions and willing to spend a bit more if it mean't jumping on someone else's tour with them and saving a few quid that way.

I've heard that March might be a no go, so if this is the case, and i guess only time will tell, then it will have to be early April.

Cheers
Joe

AFAIK,there is a good chance tat Tbet will not open to foreigners at March,
cause the Tibeten New Year holiday, travellers can get the permit to go to.
I think u better plan it on April...

The closure of Tibet to foreigners in March has nothing at all to do with Tibetan New Year Holiday - who makes this stuff up?

Tibet is closed to foreigners in March as March 10th is the anniversary of the Tibetan uprising and the riots of 2008. The govt. closes Tibet as they do not want foreigners to see any "social problems" or the security crack-down that they impose every March.

Permits are usually issued again by the last week of March provided there are no "problems". The situation is beginning to relax slowly so there is a chance that Tibet may only be closed to foreigners for a few weeks or so - but there is no guarantee of this at all - so best to avoid travel to Tibet for all of March.

Chinese authorities are not happy at any gatherings of Tibetans so clamp down rather hard in Lhasa Tibet. Just a few days ago when there were festivities in Jokhang there was panic and stampede due to rumour of gunshots which dispersed crowd quickly and (evidently) thousands of armymen on Barkhor square.

So nothing can be certain about traveling in Tibet even if you have all necessary permits.

However I would suggest to OP to contact some established travel agencies in Lhasa which make group tours from Nepal like Tashi Delek. Some travellers will definitely return to Kathmanu by land (likely by bus, but some also book jeep) and you can ask to join them. The only drawback is that they want to return quickly as possible in just two days so you can't see many interesting sights they have already seen.

Good luck!

Cheers for the tips regarding March travel, aiming for April sounds like a much better plan.

Also, Thanks Davyd for your advise about getting in contact with returning Nepal-Lhasa tour and trying to get in with them for they're journey back.However, is this legal? I thought you had to stick with your original guide like glue at all times. Would this cause any problems at the border if my permit didn't have their name on it?? The last thing I want to do is to get any locals in the shit.

Thanks again guys
Joe

Hey, I was thinking of a trip around April as well. I was planning on travelling by train from Chengdu to Lhasa, and onwards to Nepal. I wouldnt mind joining. Drop me a message if you're interested!

During the Tibetten New Year, there're 15days holiday,
goverment also takes tis holiday, if therez nobody sign the permit,then how can foreigners go travel to ??
I call it had something to do with...

In my point,The close for foreigners also the way to protection.not just because some "social problems"...

Agree...March is a sensitive time across all regions of the Tibetan Plateau. For the past several years, travel in Tibet during March has not been possible as the Tibet Tourism Bureau has not issued travel permits. It is best to plan to go to Tibet in April.

Also agree....The closure of Tibet has nothing to do with Losar/Tibetan New Year.

to corns86.

why not legal? many people even try to travel independently after getting individual group visa (I came by such visa)? But if you join any group it would be even much easier to reach Zhangmu. I was told that public transport is not easy way to reach Nepal, so joining Nepali tour groups is the way. Only remember to call in advance to learn the dates when these groups go back. I think it's usually on 8th day morning counting after every tuesday and saturday (days when Tashi Delek's budget tour groups leave Kathmandu). If I count correctly it means every Wednesday and Sunday mornings somebody is going to the border.

Hey, How's it going?

Sounds good to me. Not sure exactly what you had in mind but i'm pretty open to suggestions to be honest. I've got no experience of travel in this part of the world so am trying to get as much info from these blogs as possible before i get there.

My understanding is that it's not possible to get a permit or travel through Tibet without an organised tour, which can be really expensive if you do it alone, hence the shout out. I've looked into a tour called Himalayan Journey, here's the link to it;
http://snowliontours.com/index.php/tibet/trip/himalayan_journey/custom_trips

Is this the sort of thing you'd be interested in doing?? I've emailed the guy, who seems dead nice, he gave me a rough idea of prices;
1 person: 9200Y/ per

2 ppl: 4950Y/per

3 ppl:3800 Y/per

4 ppl: 3200Y/per
Please let me know what you're thinking, be good to bounce some ideas off each other i think.
if you'd prefer to email then contact me on; wolverine_dream@hotmail.com

nice one
Joe

oops!!! that was meant specifically for invicta27, still haven't grasped this blogging thing!

also, cheers again Davyd for your top tips, will definitely pursue this option. thought i was stricter than that. awesome news.

davyd - when you enter Tibet from Nepal on a group visa, the company that arranges your group visa still must assure that you depart Tibet.

When you enter Tibet from China, the same is true. I seriously doubt that it will be possible simply to join a tour to Nepal. Please read this article about traveling illegally in Tibet. The risks are more for locals than for foreigners.

OP you might want to contact companies in Kathmandu and see if you can arrange to begin your tour with them on the return portion of their travels, but don't expect to get to Lhasa and then arrange to do this.

Ruth

#6.... There is NO unusual risk to foriegners coming to Tibet. Tibet is safer then many other Asian countries. The story that the govt. closes Tibet for foreigner's safety is simply not true! It is also not true that Tibet is ever closed due to a holiday - if Tibet was open during this period you could simple have your agent get your permit processed BEFORE the New Year Holiday!?

corn... #8's info is WAY out of date. before 2008 you used to be able to travel independently after coming in on a group permit. But since 2008 almost no-one is doing this. It is FAR stricter these days and only a few very determinded and savvy independent travelers are getting around Tibet. To legally do what you are suggesting you'd have to plan your trip in advance.

You can change travel agents in Tibet (ie. come in on one permit with one agency - then change to another agency and a new permit) But most travel agents will tell you this is not possible. The paper work is time consuming and agents don't want the hassle.

To do a Lhasa - Ktm overland trip there is no need to change agencies or travel independently ( you can't really anyways!).........just hunt around and find a reliable operator - find a few folks to join you - negotiate the services you want from the agency (you only have to have permit, guide and vehicle - the rest you can negotiate.......then go for it!

Ruth

this of course depend on nationality. All Westerners were not issued Chinese group visa in Kathmandu unless they can present proof of their journey out of Tibet. So they had to book overpriced train tickets (by 100 dollars each). I (an Easterner) was not asked to do this and book my ticket in Lhasa on normal price.

OP seems to be Westerner so he has not much choice. His options include overpriced group tour (according to prices he was quoted) or booking budget tour to Lhasa with return train ticket. Maybe he can manage to get at least partial refund after cancelling it and in Lhasa join returning group from Kathmandu.

I am not a specialist in Tibet travel I just have been there few days ago and it seemed to me possible if I stay and explore Tibet independently. I had a Chinese group visa for 28 days with only my name written (to avoid any trouble at checkpoints). But I noticed that different nationalities were treated differently so probably the legal group tour is the only way.

davyd - your group was scammed! There is no such rule that you have to show outgoing travel from Tibet to get your Chinese visa from the Ktm consulate. All you need is an invitation letter from your agent in Tibet showing your planned itinerary. Your agency does this for you.

Perhaps you'd like to name and shame the agency who is forcing their clients to buy outgoing transport from Lhasa?

OP is asking about a trip from Lhasa to Ktm - so he has many options. If he comes into China from somewhere other than Nepal then he needs to get his Chinese visa before hand and have his permit arranged by the agency arranging his travel. He doesn't have to join a "group tour" he can negotiate with an agency for what ever he likes (but he does have to use the services of an agency and purchase permit, transport and guide at a minimum)

corns86,
I am planning a trip around April to do something similar. Chengdu - Lhasa - Kathmandu. I've been doing a lot of research and Ive found companies that can do a similar trip for little less money and time. There are two people in my party. Message me and we can coordinate if your interested.

to mrcjonecy.

actually all Kathmandu travel agencies are doing that - they say it's necessary to get Chinese visa. Can you provide link to official information regarding this rule or you have access to internal TTB information that onward tickets are not necessary? Many people especially from Western countries would be grateful if they can persuade Nepali travel agencies that bookings are not needed to get Chinese visas.

I know only what Ruth said earlier: when you enter Tibet from Nepal on a group visa, the company that arranges your group visa still must assure that you depart Tibet.

Regarding the permits and train tickets:

As China treats Tibet as part of its territory, it sounds logical that one would need a Chinese visa to enter Tibet (by entering Tibet from Nepal, you are entering China). You need the Tibet permit on top of that.

The train ticket out of Lhasa has nothing to do with the Chinese visa, it has to do with the agency making sure that you will leave Tibet when your Tibet permit runs out. This is their responsibility. Of course you can miss the train but this is not their responsibility anymore, it´s your own.

Train tickets out of Lhasa really seem a bit overpriced when bought from an agent in Kathmandu. Does anyone know a website or another place in Nepal, where these can be arranged in advance? (Although I suspect that the agency´s profit from the train ticket is calculated in the whole margin from selling you a tour permit train ticket, so if you already have the train ticket, they will just hike the price of the tour and end up with the same profit.)

I am planning joining a tour from Kathmandu to Lhasa and then taking the train to Xining some time in the second half of April. I am travelling by myself and companions are welcome:)

Edited by: tishobj

Does anyone know a website or another place in Nepal, where these can be arranged in advance?

I seriously doubt that these tickets are even available in Nepal. Companies in Nepal purchase them through agents in Tibet.

You might try contacting a Tibet based company to obtain the ticket for travel from Lhasa to Xining.

Hopefully you are aware that your Chinese visa will be limited to 15-30 days and cannot be renewed, extended or changed which means that from the day that you enter Tibet, you will have 15-30 days to leave China.

Ruth

to Ruth: is it not 28 days maximum for such kind of visa, not 30?

to tishobj: can you report whether you succeed or not in obtaining train tickets out of Lhasa in advance? It's a matter of great interest for many travellers I am sure.

When I bought train ticket to Xian through hotel in Lhasa, receptionist asked me for original Chinese group visa with my name, saying it's necessary if foreigner wants to buy ticket. In your case you want to arrange it without such visa.

davyd - reports vary considerably. I am pretty sure that there are one or two which say that the visa was 30 days but most are 21-28 days. Either way the time is limited.

Ruth

I was also wondering why it is 28 days long. Perhaps they count by weeks. I think those who reported 30 days probably thought visa length was just around one month without checking exact dates (in my case from November 30th to December 27th).

Two agencies in Kathmandu have replied to me saying that the Chinese visa will be be valid for a maximum of 20 days (one agency) or 28 days (second agency). One agency mentioned that "we will see what happens when they open Tibet in April".

Ruth, why do you think the visa cannot be extended? I am planning to spend around 10 days in Tibet and then at least 20 in China. I have read about lots of people extending their visas in China (it seems to be more complicated in some places than in others, but very possible). Is it because it is some kind of "group" visa, which is not stamped in my passport? That would be quite tricky. They say if I get my Chinese visa in advance, it will be cancelled when I apply for the Tiber permit in Nepal. Maybe I will have to make a visa run to Hong Kong or Vietnam...

this Chinese group visa is absolutely impossible to extend, one man from my group (German) even went to PSB office in Beijing and asked specifically is it possible to extend it. Reply he got was negative. So if 18 days (including 2 days of train journey out of Lhasa) is not enough then you'll have to make visa run.

Also indeed some travellers have their valid Chinese visas cancelled when they applied in Kathmandu.

Ruth, why do you think the visa cannot be extended? I am planning to spend around 10 days in Tibet and then at least 20 in China.

This is NOT a normal Chinese tourist visa. it is a special group permit visa, even if you are a group of one.

They say if I get my Chinese visa in advance, it will be cancelled when I apply for the Tiber permit in Nepal.

This is true because you can only have one valid visa on your passport at a time.

Maybe I will have to make a visa run to Hong Kong or Vietnam

This is what people do but not Vietnam. Reports of getting a Chinese tourist visa in Vietnam are very iffy, more generally impossible in Hanoi and difficult to impossible in HCMC. For certainty, HK is your best bet.

Ruth