Learning a new language using phrasebooks

Do you think it's a waste of time? Say if you just want to be able to find your way around a tourist site, buy a ticket etc, i.e. basically for travel purposes, do you think attempting to learn a language just by using a phrasebook is ineffective?

I mean, you maybe able to read out/memorise a phrase or two, but the reply could be mind-boggling.

What's your take on the method?

I'm amazed that phrasebook writers don't seem to realise that people won't understand the replies even in the unlikely event of the person they are speaking to has understood the question. Surely a far better approach would be to have a series of phrases as mp3s, such as, could you write down the time of the next train to ... Could you point me in the direction of... The user could then add the key word, or write it down. In addition, modern phrases such as 'I have a nut allergy, does this dish contain nuts? I am gluten intolerant etc.

Surely a far better approach would be to have a series of phrases as mp3s

Yes, it's amazing that Baedeker and Berlitz didn't think of that.

OP, I think there's some confusion in your heading and in your final question. I think phrasebooks are useful. I don't think they're a method for learning a foreign language.

I don't think they're a method for learning a foreign language.

They can be a beginning; later on in the language learning process, they are not a method, but a useful complement.

Edited by: mathilda

Surely a far better approach would be to have a series of phrases as mp3s

Yes, it's amazing that Baedeker and Berlitz didn't think of that.

Never mind poor Herr Baedeker: #3 seems unaware that such phrasebooks already exist. I fail to see, however, how mp3s would in any way obviate the "not understanding the reply problem." On the contrary, it would aggravate it. A phrasebook can easily be passed back and forth and skimmed; a playlist of mp3 files cannot.

And are there really phrasebooks on the market that don't include the basic phrase "I am allergic to ____?" All three of the Mandarin phrasebooks on my shelf feature it prominently.

(I am not, for the record, a great believer in the efficacy of phrasebooks for communication, let alone "learning a language"; they can, however, be handy in an emergency.)

Many years ago, I attended a travel seminar given by Rick Steves whose company leads group trips to Europe. He also advocates independent travels. In a question and answer session, someone asked Rick how many foreign languages he spoke. He laughed and said that he's not fluent in any foreign language. As he has traveled more and more, he's picked up the language; however, when he was younger, he communicated solely with a phrase book.

Knowing a foreign language is helpful, but don't use it as an excuse NOT to travel. When I first traveled to South America, I did it only with a dictionary and phrase book. It was an enjoyable trip and the people were mostly helpful when I stumbled and bumbled their language. The people appreciate the fact that you are at least attempting to communicate with them in their own language.

I did, however, have trouble communicating in Argentina and Chile. A Chilean woman kept dismissing my Spanish dictionary and phrase book as being wrong. Only later did I learn about the unique Spanish spoken by those in Argentina and Chile.

Edited by: SojoMojo

I admit that phrasebooks don't help a lot when it comes to hearing a person's reply. After all, even when a phrasebook may include a likely response it is impossible to really descibe how it will sound as spoken by the answerer.

However, I do think they are still helpful. It is perfectly possible to - for instance - ask after the location of a railway station and then stutter your way through the expression "I don't understand X language" if they start to rattle off the instructions in what you think is french but could well be russian for all you can keep up. You can be secure in knowing you have given the right word for where you need to go. After that you reply on various basic language and instructions to get where you want to go.

I agree with #2, who wrote: "I think phrasebooks are useful. I don't think they're a method for learning a foreign language".

Phrase books are just that, not a language text book with graduated vocabulalary, conversations, and grammar explanations.

Obviously phrase books won't help you learn a language but they are a good introduction. You can start studying the language when you come home. Phrase books are also quite fun - you can have hilarious converstions (of sorts) with local people by pointing out the silliest phrase in the book (my favourite was the Spanish-Chinese one ridiculously titled "saber Chino en 20 dias").

The people appreciate the fact that you are at least attempting to communicate with them in their own language.

This may be the most important factor in communication of all.

There is now an electronic dictionary of food and menu phrases in many of the world's leading languages.

Learning from a phrasebook has always been a waste of time for me.

A bit/quite a lot of the language learnt before the trip is my way. The phrasebook is the secondary aspect - taken along on the trip - there for those situations you haven't mastered the vocabulary for/the stressful moments when your mind goes totally blank.

I find most of the translations in phrase books to be unnecessarily complex for someone without knowledge of the language. It's more useful just to have simple templates and essential practical vocabulary. When speaking a language I don't know, I deliberately keep my questions very simple. With luck this will encourage people to keep their answers simple, so I can understand them. To ask for something in a shop you only need to know the word for the thing you want, for example. Another thing is that they are often full of errors, as if the authors' only aim was to produce a book's worth of phrases as quickly as possible.

# 11

Hear, hear! - I second your comments about the errors in many phrasebooks.

To ask for something in a shop you only need to know the word for the thing you want, for example
If you can see what you want, you only need to know the words for hello, goodbye, please and thank you

The Dorling Kindersley visual phrasebooks are great, by the way. Our Italian agent was so taken with the one I bought in Ravenna that he kept it to hand out to those Anglophones he deals with who normally don't make an effort, so he doesn't have to translate for them in restaurants all the time. Note the "You may hear .." section.

I've also found phrasebooks to be good ice-breakers. I've sat alone at bars in Italy, Kazakhstan and Russia and had staff and other customers, locals, ask to look at my phrasebook and amuse themselves over the translations

I use phrasebooks a lot when I'm travelling, as an aid to using and yes, learning, the language. However, I always start by trying to get a grasp of the basic grammar of the language from other books before I go ( although the best phrasebooks do have a grammar section - shame Berlitz dummed down theirs).
This basic grasp means that I can then use the phrasebook as a huge body of examples of the language in use, and I hope to pick up a set of model sentences that can be used in different situations and with different vocabulary - which is where the vocabulary part of the phrasebook is essential.
A good phrasebook will often suggest more natural ways of saying things, which may not be obvious from a study of grammar only, eg. if I want to say ' is there an XYZ round here' it is better to have a dozen examples in the phrasebook than work out for yourself how you will translate 'round here'.

As for understanding replies, a phrasebook is little better than any other method. You're a learner, it'll be difficult at first, and the more you've studied in advance by whatever method, the better equipped you'll be. I would never hand over a phrasebook and expect the native speaker to point out a reply, but that's just me.

So I suppose to summarise, a phrasebook will rarely be a starting point to learning a language, but it can be a very valuable aid in the learning process. And great fun.