Ko Chang --> Cambodia?

Hello!

Does anyone have any advice from traveling from Ko Chang to Cambodia? The only package bus options to Siem Reap go all the way up the the Poipet border...past all the smaller ones. We are wondering weather to go to Sianoukville (smaller islands actually) first, and then make our way up to Siem Reap, or do it the other way around. It's a bit daunting to read about all the scams so we are considering taking the easy option of the bus directly to siem reep from ko chang, even though it goes the long way. It's only 300 Bhat. We could try and cross on our own at Pong Nam Ron/Psar Pruhm crossing --> Pailin -> Battambang -> siem reap.

any advice is helpful! thank you!!

The Thai buses are better and more honest then the Cambodian buses, so my advice is go to Rayong and take a bus from there to Aranyaprathet near the border and spend the night there. Next day over the border and on to Siem Reap.
The B300 bus direct to Siam Reap sounds like it will be an ordeal, why knock yourself out?
Or, skip Siem Reap anyway, its just a tourist rip off everywhere - you can do it on another trip.
Go to Sihanoukville and spend your time there. It is a good time to be there.

there are numerous options and most are easy to do but with some problems on the way

If you say where you want to go in Cambodia first and if you want to stop on the way then can give better advice

However please ignore the advice of my friend ripoffallerter as it would be madness to go to Rayong from Koh Chang it is miles out of your way. There is a regular bus from Chanthaburi direct to Aranyaphatet (destination Buriram) and there are numerous buses from Chanthaburi (and some from Trat) to SaKeow where you can pick up bus to Aranyaphatet (and a mini van from Chanthaburi to SaKeow

Siem Reap a rip off but recommends Sihanoukville!!

I did this trip recently in two days to Sihanoukville, First day I crossed over and spend the night in Koh Kong and took the 8 am big bus to Sihanoukville. It was a comfortable 4 hour ride on the big bus, and Koh Kong was an interesting little place to spend a night. Breaking the trip in two made it pleasant, instead of being a pain.
I would not go overland between Siem Reap and Sihanoukville, you could break your trip in PP or fly instead.
Just read up on the scams and get the online visa and you won't have any trouble at all.

Yep it is usually best to spread the journey from Koh Chang to Sihanoukville over the two days as I do not think there is an afternoon bus from Koh Kong (unless new) BUT it is not unusual to find a taxi or van that has come from Sihanoukville looking for passengers for the return and if you can avoid the border mafia they will give you a good price

For the trip to SHV forum2233's recent report is very detailed and recent. You really should read it if you go for that route.
Bigal pointed out that the buses run from Chantaburi to Aran in Sakeow province. They actually stop at Aran bus station from there it is a 6 km motorbike or tuktuk ride to the border. Look for the Buriram bus at Chantaburi. Buriram is the line's terminus. Third class fan and 2nd class aircon buses service the route. Fan is no problem as the route runs thru lush forests and you get a nice breeze. Very friendly staff, working people who have nothing to do with the tourist industry. Nice crowd.

If you want to go by Pailin you need to get out about an hour north of Chantaburi at a crossing. The bus drivers know the spot and if they have problem to understand you people in Chantaburi bus station will help out. Cross the road as the songtaew to the border leaves there. You need to make it clear that you want to go to the border since driver goes to a nearby village and needs to make a small loop for you.
ALTERNATIVE: Aircon casino van to the border casino. Costs a little bit more but probably worthwhile.
After the border: Motorbike to Pailin. From Pailin to Battambang vans or public toyota taxis. I like the toyotas as they are likely to give you some 10-15 min along the way to take a quick look at three Khmer prangs right next to the road (100 meters off).
If the water levels allow, take the boat to SR, in case you have not done it so far. Very impressive, make sure batteries and memory chips are fit for the workload ahead.

I prefer the boat trip Battambang to SR and not the other way around. You see the river in the morning when it is less hot and have cooler temperatures at the lake later on. Make sure to bring a hat for the boat and the temples in SR.

Finally, I doubt that there is a direct bus from Koh Chang to SR. There is a direct ticket involving different companies and, I m prepared to place a bet, a series of scams. The latter include shitty restaurants, extra charges at the border, and a host of annoyances in SR on arrival. It is the same story almost anywhere in Thailand were private bus companies offer such services. Go to Trat bus station or to the one in Chantaburi and get a regular bus (in Trat it might unfortunately be a regular van).

Go to Trat bus station or to the one in Chantaburi and get a regular bus (in Trat it might unfortunately be a regular van

if a choice when you get off the ferry go to Chanthaburi as all buses from Trat detour through.

Yes well I did not know of buses from Chantaburi, only from Rayong.
Anyway, if you do travel from Ko Chang to Trat or Chantaburi, you will leave yourself open for a likely tourist expensive fare, and then you will have to buy another fare from Chantaburi or Trat.
If you have a B300 fare already available to Siem Reap from Ko Chang, it might be an option to take that with your bags inside the bus, and leave the bus when you have had enough at a likely place to board another bus.
If deciding on Koh Kong, make it by noon and there is a bus to Sihanoukville, however it leaves you on the highway to wait maybe two hours for a bus from Phnom Penh to Sihanoukville.

Please just how do you think the OP is going to get to Rayong from Koh Chang

yes via Trat or better still Chanthaburi (where there is a direct mini van) so same scams on that part not doubt. And from Trat or Chanthaburi there are no scams on the bus they always sell the ticket at the right price - of course with your luck....

Hey everyone. Thanks for your input. Somehow in all my reading about this I didn't come across the fact that the ticket they sell in ko Chang that they say takes you all the way to siem reap is a huge scam. It only takes you to the border at poi pet, and not the actual border, the Tai restaurant 1.5 miles from the border where a man might scream at you if you ask him questions once you are ushered off the mini bus. We ended up walking in the heat of the day with all or stuff to the border and found 8 other people who were also sold false tickets to siem reap. 10 of us! All on different buses that were lies to get to siem reap. It was stressful on the other side as well when we tried to get a mini bus and an angry little man chased us around on the streets asking for money on behalf of the police. He backed off in the end and we made it, but I think we had the worst case scenario. I'm leaving out a lot of rude language and unpleasant interactions that made it all pretty terrible. But we made it. Long story short- the tickets from ko Chang to siem reap do not get you to siem reap and it's best to wear your thickest skin the day you cross into Cambodia.

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Nobody excuses scams by scammers nor false information (on this thread) by rippoff. The two come often together, unfortunately.
We should be very clear that bus travel Thailand is pretty well organized and scam-free as long as you stick to the public system and buy your ticket there. In other words, use the ticket counters of licensed bus companies. The problem arises with private companies that target almost exclusively foreign tourists. The problem is almost as old as backpacking in Thailand. The sales personnel of these licensed companies is usually helpful and abuse by staff is almost unheard of. I had none so far.

The deplorable situation surrounding private bus operators should not serve as an excuse for people, including board members, to spread blatant generalizations about a country and it's people. We had this in European history way too often in the past with the known sad results.
So Koh Chang travelers: Do yourself a favor, buy the 'real' tickets as indicated earlier on this thread. Take the motorbike taxi or tuktuk from Aran bus station to the border and proceed as often discussed in the Cambodian section. The people who are trying to get your money do not represent Cambodian peasants, townspeople or anyone.
Whether 'lie, cheat, and overcharge the foreigner' is a "policy" in Cambodia was not discussed here. The scam was a Thai scam. Rippoff just jumped on it to spread his questionable views in line with what I stated above.

Somehow in all my reading about this I didn't come across the fact that the ticket they sell in ko Chang that they say takes you all the way to siem reap

The reason might be that most of who know our way around avoid these "tour buses" so do not know the detail of what tricks they may play and we use the government and other reputable bus companies. It may seem more hassle to do it yourself but it is in reality very easy as Thai bus stations are always very helpful if you tell them your end destination.

Still you missed the charms of Rayong!

We are not defending the scammers and we also know that most of the locals in Thailand and Cambodia are kind, generous, friendly and do not lie, cheat, and overcharge

we also know exactly the same sorts of thing go on in the west in tourist spots - go to Barcelona, London, Paris Venice to name a few places - and again not defending it

As MikeAsia said just as bad as the scams are the people providing wrong information to enquiries

Yes pity you missed the charms of Rayong, a town centre bus station with good noodle cafes around the station.
A mini bus driver tried to drop me off around the corner so that his friend the motor cycle taxi driver could make money running me in a hundred yards, but apart from that, a nice friendly honest place.
They do not see many foreigners there I suppose.

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I use Rayong regularly. No scams with buses there. The government regulated vans from the other stations are also clean. The problems with individual unregulated transport are known from almost any airport, railway - and bus station around the world. This has nothing to do with airline, rail or bus services.
The bottom line is that once you use unregulated private bus companies you run a risk of being scammed, robbed, and also a much higher crash risk (some will remember the horrible bus crash between Mae Sot and Tak).
As for general observations concerns "the" Thai and "the" Khmer. These are based on personal experiences with a limited set of local protagonist on the one hand and a mixture of mutual ignorance on the other. I also wonder what kind experts make such observations without being fluent in the language.
Let's face it, tourism attracts a certain clientele which might be interested in a fast profit. This is not necessarily a simple matter of character but also of poverty.

A lot depends on whether someone is just passing through or stays longer. One example, the owner of a small food vietnamese place in Sihanoukville stopped his motorbike on the road when he saw me walking. He offered me a ride. I declined. He assured me that it was for free and I explained that while I appreciated the kind offer I did need the exercise. Ladies in the market make sure I pick the good fruits and other sellers tell me to come at another time. Yup, I am a regular customer and get well treated. Just like in the west. So let's keep things in perspective and do not project a foreigner's frustrations on the whole population.

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I did not blame travlora nor did anyone else do so. Rippoff-alerter stop making up false stories.

Travlora's contribution is much appreciated as it will help others to avoid problems which was travlora's motivation.

The distinction between private operator and public licensed Thai tour operators is important and needs to be emphasized. it is very easy to distinguish buses. Apparently Ripoff has little knowledge about it and keep sending members into the wrong direction (Rayong in this case). Thai buses and also regulated Van lines have the official line number and vehicle number painted clearly visible. It is impossible to overlook these. Government bus drivers wear a uniform or at last part of it with a garuda sticker. PLUS: Unlicensed companies do not have regular ticket booths at an official bus station. Rippoff is simply ignorant of the most basic aspects of Thai bus travel yet continues to share he false claims and bad 'advice.'

To talk about 'orientals' stands in the worst colonialist tradition. It is also a statement of character.

Little surprise ripoffallerter gets riped off so often if he can not distinguish the official regulated buses from the cowboys

Thanks for the information about the official buses. I didn't know either that Thailand had this dual system of transport. Unfortunately tourists can't be expected to know this and Thailand does anything but help tourists in this regard, allowing numerous "cowboys" to operate right in tourist central and information is very hard to get on what is official and what is not. Official transport will sometimes rip off foreigners too, such as the case in Ko Samui where the baht buses refuse to take foreigners at the prices written in Thai inside the bus. Other times the official bus is not an option or too difficult to get to, so people end up with unofficial, and at the mercy of scam artists. Most of the time you just pay more than thais do, but dropping people off in unknown places at the outskirt of a city - especially at night -, which did happen to me in Thailand not once, is outrageous. Even more outrageous is what happened to travlora, we should be sympathetic instead of blaming the victim in cases like this. It's not reasonable to expect people to be untrusting of local transport companies, this phenomenon is unique to Thailand and possibly Cambodia, I have not heard people being conned this way in any other country.

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This post has been removed because it may not have met our community guidelines.

We don't allow generalizations based on nationality or ethnicity, so I've removed a few posts. I'm sure you can debate the fascinating topic of bus scams without bringing an entire nation of people into it.

An addition on the bus system: You can charter your own transport for a specific purpose like anywhere in the world. This is not a bus service that runs an official line every day. Many Thai tour groups do this and there is a debate in Thailand about the appalling safety standards of many of these private buses.
Some enterprising people apply the same system to foreign tourists offering seemingly cheap prices on such trips as from CM to BKK, Phuket - BKK or Vientiane to BKK, and so on. They do a lot to insinuate that this is "the" bus. What is in common with these services is that buses leave from a GH or travel agencies and not the official bus station. This is a big red flag. Another bad indicator is the price. Once it is lower than the government bus then something is wrong. The lower price comes from overworked drivers, low standards of the bus and maintenance. Overall bus travel is not too safe in Thailand but the private companies/lines still beat this.
Add to that the cross-border services. They leave the customer at the mercy of the company. Cross-border buses should only be booked with official companies AT the bus station AT and official sales booth.

Songteaws are a different story and organized differently. They do not issue receipts like city buses or overland buses. In other words they can get away with anything you consent to, be it by force or free will. Usually these are cooperatives who work hand in hand with local politicians and provide the latter with strong hands when needed. Pattaya is a classic example. The same applies to motorbike taxis which try to dominate an entire part of town and serve as enforcers for what Thais call 'black forces.'

Night routes. Official Thai buses run overnite services timed to reach the final destination early in the morning, usually between 5 and 8 AM, some very long distance buses take a bit longer (i.e. Mai Sai etc.). You can book travel on these to places along the route. However, other than the day services the buses do not always pull into an empty bus station, very often they still do. In such cases they leave the traveler at an intersection on the main highway where motorbikes wait for customers. This is an established and known practice and no scam. The negotiations on price between the motorbike driver and tourists will certainly reflect the situation. So better ask at the ticket booth where the drop off will take place.
Some locations, Chumphoon comes to mind have a far removed bus station where buses come through with little transport to the center. This is a problem and no scam on the part of the buses. Chumphoon based companies offer departures and arrivals from the city center at their own terminal. Again, all is clearly marked and not a GH or tour agency office.
I should add that bus booking and arrangements in Cambodia resemble these private bus company agents in Thailand. Thus, confusion may arise. In SHV GH sell the 'real' bus tickets at a small mark up, usually 1 USD, for the buses.
We did not mention VANS. There are official van stops often at the official bus station sometimes at major traffic cross roads like Victory Monument in BKK. These lines are regulated, numbers, uniformed, official receipts given, prices fixed. Again, one needs to be clear about the drop offs and thus ask. Needless to add that travel agent are also in on that market and sell van tickets for supposedly existing buses and these vans are often old and driven by questionable drivers. No need to add the stops at overpriced restaurants, disappearing luggage, and other tricks to make more money.

In sum, some disappointments with official public transport results from a lack of information on the part of the tourist. Some is caused by the location of the official bus station which increasingly is found far from the city centers. Nevertheless, the buses are by far the best deal when it comes to bus or van travel.

Again, as stated before I did not blame travlora. On the contrary the input is important and will save some readers trouble and money. The OP highlighted the general issue of these private bus arrangements aside from the problems connected with this routing.

#21, in all the years we've been going to Koh Samui and take the red pickups have yet to see price lists inside. We hop on and give the driver what we reckon is a fair price. Ask his much and you'll get ripped off. Did notice last year there are more taxis and fewer of the red trucks. At taxi " depots" they do have price lists.

This is becoming boring. Apparently these scammers are not to blame, and they scam because they are poor, it happens in the West, or it is the victim's fault.
Or we are supposed to tell the difference from the regulated buses and the cowboys.
Regardless of the fact that the regulated buses also scam the foreigners.
Take a basic fact of bus traveling in Cambodia. They all charge the foreigner more for a bus ticket than a Cambodian.
And it sometimes happens in Thailand.
Does Greyhound buses in the USA do that?
Here is another scam the buses do on Thailand and Cambodia. the tourist buys a ticket, and the bus does not arrive.
Why, because they have not enough passengers to make money. They never admit it, and they expect the tourist to take a bus later.
It happened to a friend of mine who was going on the visa run to the border. He had to leave three hours later.

The info supplied applies to the Thai system as this was part of the OP's inquiry and also his later report.

I doubt that the claim "And it sometimes happens in Thailand" is true. In more than 15 years I had not one single incident that would lead me to believe this claim for a minute. I always do get my receipt; I always see the published price; buses run on schedule and not the number of customers. The authorities also welcome complaints. In case of a problem, keep you ticket. I never felt the need for such steps.

Buses might be delayed because of an accident, road congestion, and similar reasons. Companies like the Transport Company, Chang and many others do not sell tickets for non existent buses. Buses run on a schedule and they do so for years and years in a row.
It is dubious, to say the least, to make such unsubstantiated claims especially when it comes from a member who just has demonstrated his lack of geographical orientation and ignorance of bus connections on this thread. Such false infos lead to waste of time and money. Beware.

I m looking forward to read rippoff's report on his Koh Chang - Rayong - Aran bus trip adventure. It will be highly educational.

As for the scammers: The scammers working out of travel agencies are usually well-off when compared to day workers along the road. Thus, even that rant is nonsensical.

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