Itinerary Help: Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Salzburg, Munich

My husband and I are going to Europe in September, and we have 17 full days / 17 nights.
Here is our tentative itinerary:
Arrive in Frankfurt, then train to Berlin (arrive late afternoon)
Berlin (2 full days / 3 nights), then morning train to Prague
Prague (2 nights), then morning train to Vienna
Vienna (3 nights), then morning train to Salzburg
Salzburg (1 night), then train to Munich
Munich / Oktoberfest (3 nights)
From Munich we will be driving up through to get back to Frankfurt hitting Fussen, Lindau, Freiburg, Baden (4 nights).

Here are my questions:
Is this itinerary feasible, and is it too rushed? Is 2-3 nights in these places adequate?

Is it worth it to go to Salzburg for 1 night (likely arriving in the morning and departing around lunch)? Should we devote 2 days there if we are making the stop in Salzburg on our way from Vienna to Munich?

If we had to give up anything on this itinerary, would Prague be the best one to eliminate (as much as I would hate to!)? I am stuck between wanting to see as much as possible but realizing that we could just end up rushing around for 2.5 weeks due to too much travel.

Next the trains. Do we need to reserve our seat on the train from the Frankfurt airport into Berlin, or can we get a ticket upon arrival in Frankfurt? I'm concerned about a flight delay and missing a train, but also am not sure if they sell out in advance.

Next, I'm not sure if the Eurail is the best option or the bahn.de website. It seems like the bahn.de website shows trains from Berlin to Prague, Prague to Vienna, Vienna to Salzburg, and Salzburg to Munich. I'm having trouble figuring out the Eurail site and if it makes sense for us to get a 3 country pass etc. or just buy each way separate on bahn.de.

Any tips and suggestions about the itinerary is much appreciated - hotel / restaurant recommendations welcome also!
Thank you in advance!
Amanda

Yikes.

It's up to you really. For sure it's quite an active trip, but it depends what you're into. If you like maximising what you see on your holiday, that's fine. I deffo wouldn't add anything else, that's for sure!

So...

Is it worth it to go to Salzburg for 1 night - arguably not really, but you're in the general area, so you might as well. Depends on what you're into. If it's Apple Struedel, sound of music, Mozart and mountains, and a pretty city centre, then it'll be your cup of tea.

Should you give up Prague? Well, not really. But you could say that to anything you've got. Probably Munich would be an idea. 1 day at the Oktoberfest is sufficient really, and you may find it difficult (assuming this trip is this year) to find accommodation - what you will find will be expensive. Consider booking space in a beer tent in advance, cos the queues start at 8:30 in the morning, especially if it's a weekend.

Trains - You should investigate whether your airline is tied into the Deutsche Bahn Rail and Fly ticket option, which gives discounts for onward travel from Frankfurt airport. It'll give you some useful savings if you're not on a rail pass. Contact your travel agent. Usually it's bought at the same time as the plane ticket. You can of course get a ticket upon arrival, but you'd pay through the nose and then some.

As for whether it's best to get a pass or point to point tickets, it depends how restrictive you wanna be. It looks like your itinerary is fairly fixed already, in which case point to point tickets are probably the way forward; bought this far in advance (they'll be on sell already for Sept), you'll get decent savings. I strongly suggest you refer to http://www.seat61.com which has links to the websites you'll need (do not use http://www.raileurope.com, it's a rip off!). As for whether the pass is cheaper than point to point, you'll have to figure it out yourself, sorry, especially given you haven't been specific with dates.

If you want to visit the parliament at Berlin (Bundestag), advance registration is required. See http://www.bundestag.de/htdocs_e/visits/kupp.html. There's some cracking views from the top. Avoid the restaurants on Wenceslas Square in Prague; they're tourist traps. Some good (and much cheaper) restaurants are to be had a few side streets back. Ask the hotel for recommendations or try downloading the Yelp app. Whilst in Munich, consider visiting Dachau or Neuschwanstein castle as day trips. Both are a full day out, although the interior of Neuschwanstein castle is said by some to be a bit disappointing (dunno, was told it wasn't worth it, so didn't bother).

Is this itinerary feasible, and is it too rushed?

Your itinerary is doable as it concerns only a good 2 weeks, but is quite rushed. Each city in your itinerary is worth a visit of at least a full day, 2 days would be better and in Berlin and Vienna you could easily spend 3 or 4 full days.

If we had to give up anything on this itinerary, would Prague be the best one to eliminate

It depends on your interests. Which of those cities would you like to visit the most? If Prague is on the bottom of your list, it should be the first one to drop. If it is another city, drop that one.

Replying to Fwoggie:
> 1 day at the Oktoberfest is sufficient really

Agree. One full day is enough to walk over the terrain, catch some beers and enjoy the fair. Of course, if you would like to see something of Munich as well, or do a daytrip, you need more days.

Consider booking space in a beer tent in advance, cos the queues start at 8:30 in the morning, especially if it's a weekend.

I've always understood it's not possible to book a space for just a couple of persons. You need a group of at least 10 persons or so. And by now, the spaces have probably already filled up.

As it will be difficult to find accomodation in Munich at this time, consider staying in a nearby town or city and take the train to and from Munich. The Oktoberfest opens in the morning and closes around 23.00, so if you catch the last train you don't miss anything.

Is your itinerary physically possible? Yes.

Is it likely to be rewarding? No. Not with so much time spent in transit and so little time in the places you've spent so much time to get to.

Have you looked at travel times? Hotel door to hotel door, it'll probably take a minimum of 6 hours from Berlin to Prague. Leaving you with a day and a half in Prague before spending another 6 hours door to door to get to Vienna. Etc.

To me, this isn't "maximizing what you see." it's minimizing what you see by spreading yourselves too thinly across too many places. And spending too much time in transit.

interior of Neuschwanstein castle is said by some to be a bit disappointing

The views of the castle exterior is certainly very good - although it depends on on which side of the castle is being restored at the time of arrival. Scaffolding is on the outside of the castle in 2008 - not sure if they have enough funds to finish it yet?
Once you understand that it's just 2 floors of the castle that is available to view (Ludwig ran out of money to go further than 2 floors before he died) what you see on the 2 floors is excellent (very opulent) but pity it is only 2 floors out of 4.

I enjoyed it but did as a day trip by train.

hi amanda
above posters haven given plenty of great information.

your itinerary is busy, and you could use more time almost everywhere, but still, its okay. if you want to "give up on one place", prague would indeed be the most "convenient" place, because its a bit out of the way (compared to the other places your are planning to visit). but then again, prague is a lovely city, and a bit different to the other cities on your itinerary, so no, i wouldnt give up on it.

in germany, there is no need to book all the seats in advance. if you know for sure that you will be on a certain train, do make a seat reservation as it just will be easier . otherwise, get on the train without seat reservation and look for an empty seat. the worst that can happen is that you might have to move out of it (if the person with a reservation arrives) and in a worst case scenario, you might have to walk around and search for another empty places or maybe even have no seat at all for a while.

Thanks so much everyone!

It seems we are still looking at cutting out either Salzburg or Prague. We are committed to Vienna and Munich for sure, and we must fly in and out of Frankfurt. We do already have our hotel booked for Munich for Oktoberfest. Also, my husband is really looking forward to the last couple of days driving through from Munich back to Frankfurt. We will use this time to see Neuschwanstein Castle, wineries, etc.

It terms of what we want, we are really up for anything. Neither of us has traveled Europe before, so we are looking for the best experiences. We are relatively young and active and will want to experience a wide range of things.

On the one hand, I want to go to Salzburg for the beauty, the Alps, the Sound of Music, and because I feel it fits the "original idea" of the trip, which was Germany/Oktoberfest/Bavaria etc. On the other hand, Prague would be another big city experience, a chance to see another country and experience another culture.

We are now thinking also that the Salzburg OR Prague would make the most sense before Vienna.

Here is the new possible itinerary:
Arrive in Frankfurt, then train to Berlin (arrive late afternoon)

Berlin (3 days / 3 nights), then evening train to Prague OR Salzburg

Prague OR Salzburg (3 nights / 2 full days), then morning train to Vienna

Vienna (3 nights / 3 days), then morning train to Munich

Munich / Oktoberfest (3 nights)

From Munich we will be driving up through to get back to Frankfurt hitting Fussen, Lindau, Freiburg, Baden (4 nights).

Thanks again, tips are much appreciated!
Amanda

Berlin to Salzburg would be an overnight train... Except there isn't one. By day it's 9 hrs. Fly it, or accept a full day lost in travelling. Refer to http://www.bahn.co.uk. :)

If you're still insistent on Munich, book as soon as the itinerary is fixed up, if you intend to travel this year. Accom by this time will be scarce, and expensive.

And note that Neuschwanstein is an hour or more in the opposite direction to Frankfurt.

By coincidence I was talking to some US tourists from Florida earlier today who were in their 40's and on their 3rd or 4th Europe trip and who said they now understood why you needed to take so long to go round Europe - there is just so much to see. I think you are falling into the trap of trying to see too much in 17 days - your journey from Berlin to Prague alone could fill up this time without leaving you bored

Prague would be another big city experience, a chance to see another country and experience another culture
With all due respect, spending 2 nights in a capital is a long way from "seeing another country and experiencing another culture" - especially in a place as overrun by tourists as Prague. It's a beautiful city, indeed, but it doesn't represent the Czech Republic as a whole I'd say. Another misconception many Americans, Ozzies etc have of Europe - "see a capital and you've seen its country".

Another misconception many Americans, Ozzies etc have of Europe - "see a capital and you've seen its country"

And yet those same people know better than to think that of their own capitals.

See what response you get if you tell an Aussie, "Oh yes, by spending 3 days in Canberra, I feel like I've truly visited Australia and experienced the culture."

On the one hand, I want to go to Salzburg for the beauty, the Alps, the Sound of Music, and because I feel it fits the "original idea" of the trip, which was Germany/Oktoberfest/Bavaria etc.

A logical solution would be to skip Berlin then. The city is very much worth a visit, but you'll have to come back to Europe anyway ;-)

By skipping Berlin you can also add some more Sound of Music experience to the trip by going into the mountains. You can go for a hike, take the cable car to the peak of a mountain, visit some cute little Austrian villages etc. Relatively close to Salzburg you can find the highest mountain in Austria (Grossglockner), the National Park Hohe Tauern, the salt mines, lakes, fortresses etc. See http://www.salzburgerland.com/en/ausflugsziele/index.html for some more inspiration.

You can easily spend a week in any of those cities. So your itinerary (I am referring to your original one) is doable and gives you a bit of time to see the main sights. It does however not allow for any recreation and no time for catching the spirit of those cities (and this is quite different between Prussia, Bavaria, Bohemia and Austria).

Skipping Prague would not spare travel time since the trains Berin-Vienna do pass Prague anyway. Going Berlin-Salzburg-Vienna-Munich by train means travelling Berlin-Munich-Salzburg-Vienna-Salszburg-Munich. This makes the orinial routing more senseful. And Berlin-Prague between Dresden (dont get off the train - another week) and Prague along the Elbe and Moldava rivers is an fine scenery. Esp. the Elbe valley between Dresden/Pirna and Usti nad Labem is a highlight, only matched by the middle Rhine valley.

As for train tickets and reservations, these do not come together in Germany. Im not 100 % sure, but also not in Austria and the Czech Republic. In Germany you can buy a ticket without reserving a seat and you can reserve a seat without buying a ticket. There are two types of tickets: Standard fare, which are fully flexible and good on any train going that direction, and reduced fare, which are only valid on a specific train+date. This leaves you the option to buy reduced tickets for trains which you are sure you can take (and reserve a seat additionally or leave it) or to buy standard tickets if not sure. For example you can reserve seats on three different trains out of Frankfurt to Berlin (fee is 4 Euro pP for one reservation) and. jump on any of those. This wastes a bit of money, but gives you reserved seats for sure. If in a hurry, you can even buy the tickets on the train for a small surcharge (cash or credit card).

Some ideas for the driving bit: From Munich along Walchensee, Fernpass, Füssen (Neuschwanstein), Lindenberg, Lake Konstanz, Ravensburg, Mainau, Stein am Rhein, Schaffhausen.

Edited by: AnhaltER1960