Italy: if you could only pack 2 pairs of shoes...

Hello,

If you were headed to Italy next week, and had to pack VERY light, what two pairs of shoes would you carry?? (We can afford to wear one pair and pack another.)

FYI, we are one male and one female and tend to dress as casually as possible, yet have done enough research to know we need to dress decently and modestly for most of our destinations. (Which include Venice, Firenze and Tuscan countryside, Sardegna, and Roma.)

We will be doing a LOT of walking/hiking/biking. (I surmise sneakers are a definite faux pas. If so, what do Italians wear during active pursuits?) But we'll also be visiting several museums and churches. We can do without upscale restaurants/clubs.

Also, trying our best to avoid shoes/dress that will scream "obnoxious American tourist." (No offense to fellow travelers who call the States home, but we all know we don't have the best reputation abroad.) I know people will soon figure out my nationality from my accent, etc., but I try my best when/wherever I travel to avoid fitting the stereotype by speaking softly, learning some language basics, dressing modestly, etc.

Thanks for your help...

1 pair technical sandals (e.g. Teva's), 1 pair hiking boots (Vasques are my favorites). I'd even skip the sandals, but it gets pretty hot this time of year. BTW, good on you learning the language basics. Italians especially respond really well to any attempt at communicating in their language.

Oh, the great shoe dilemma! How I recognise this one! It's the thing I agonise over before every trip too. I think it's worse for women, somehow, because if there is any chance you will want to wear a dress or skirt, then the said shoes/sandals have to be suitable for this purpose yet still be strong enough to survive all the walking. Hence my dilemma - I prefer very feminine, pretty sandals but can never justify taking them!

Based on what you've said, I would suggest you wear some sturdy walking shoes to travel in and take a lighter pair of sandals in your luggage. N.B. Some advice a friend gave me when I was in the midst of my last shoe-travel crisis was that you can always buy a cheap pair of trainers/sneakers/plimsolls whilst you are away, if the worst comes to the worst. (If they are cheap enough, you don't even need to bring them back home with you!).

Teva sandals for sure.

Advise above are fine. Do not be too scared about the "Shoe dressing code" - unless you are eating at posh goumet restaurants you will be OK in leather sadans, and tevas and preobably even is (clean) snarkers.

"we all know we don't have the best reputation abroad" - do not mix the attitude towards the US as a country with the attitude toward individuals. You will be OK - since it seems that you are considering that you should try to abapt a bit to the local code of conduct. And remember that Italy is incredible full of tourists - in many of the palces you probably will go it is more "normal" to be a tourist than a local :-)

sandals for walking ( I do anything but high mountain walking in sandals), and flip flops

I don't know what flip flop are but they sound like shoes to be used on the beach; consider you can simply buy any kind of shoes you need here in Italy and if you avoid Ferragamo or Valentino your shopping can be very convenient. Now the temperature is hot in the morning but please avoid to seem someone who is going to the beach, this attitude of many tourists in Rome is offensive.
Enjoy your stay!

I would take one pair of walking boots or sandals (ie Birkenstock type) for travelling and general sight-seeing, and one pair of smarter sandals / flip flops for occasional day time and evening use. I tend to run around in a pair of flat gold gladiator style flip flops that are comfy for general shopping and for going out in the evening.

If you hit the main cities, then you can pick up a cheap pair of plimsolls in places like Zara for less than 20 Euros. I was in Rome and my shoes were killing me, so popped into Zara and got a pair of sparkly plimsolls for 20 Euros and threw the other ones away.

Flip flops are called thongs, I believe, in other countries. I lived a couple of years in Italy and have travelled extensively and have worn flip flops everywhere. They're comfortable and informal. I never had any problem with anyone regarding my footwear - obviously I'm a Brit, so I'm a fashion-free zone and proud of it :-)

Why should they be "offensive"?!

What do you mean with "decently and modestly"? I don't think you have to dress more decently or modestly than other european countries. Being nicely dressed will be well perceived but you can dress as you want and not have any problem whatsoever.
A nice pair of leather sandals (rather than plastic flip flops) that you can use also at night and a "semi-gym" shoes (say Merrell's) to do the walking will do

Semi-serious manual for foreigners
If you don't want to look American DON'T:
1) Wear white snikers with white socks up to the knees
2) Do not wear light brown shorts
3) Do not wear your college's hooded sweater
4) Do not wear a baseball cap
5) Do not chew gums
6) Don't scream when you talk
it takes some work not too look american... ;-)

If you don't want to look German DON'T:
1) Don't wear sandals with socks
...that easy!

If you don't want to look British DON'T:
1) Don't drink beer at 11am in the morning sitting at an outside cafe' while the local sitting next to you is drinking his cappuccino (he might throw up at the scene)
2) Don't get drunk
3) Don't look like you are going to the beach even in the centre of Milan (plastic flip flops, short-sleeves multi-color shirts etc)
4) Don't be loud
5) Do not wear a Man U shirt (neither an AC Milan shirt, just in case you are trying to mimetize): italians don't care who you support
6) Don't call the football team AC Milan but just Milan
7) If you are a girl do not drink the beer from the bottle
8) Do not lick your fingers when eating
...quite a bit of work here too...

For all nationalities
1) DO NOT use a spoon the eat spaghetti!!!

Any advice for what footwear to pack for men? Seems like most of the comments here are geared towards women. I like to pack light and tend to dress extremely casually (I'm from California), but I'd like to make a reasonable attempt to fit-in. Even though my wife and I are backpacking, we'd like to be able to enjoy a reasonably nice meal on occasion and to be dressed appropriately for it.

In days of yore I recall being warned NEVER wear Levis or tennis shoes when traveling in Europe. Everyone will know you are an American.
Well, last November in Roma I saw nearly everyone wearing jeans and more tennis shoes than I could count. Fashion changes. However, I too am from California, LA to be exact and you know how laid back we are. Still I chose NOT to look like a beach bum while in Italy. Capri pants, nice scarfs, turtle necks, you get the picture. Casual but not. Anyway, for a guy I would say bring a pair of nice yet sturdy lace ups or slip ons. Born, Rockport, Keene, Ecco all have what I'm talking about. Have a wonderful trip. Fabulous city.

Thanks for the great advice, everyone.

Based on what I'm hearing, I think I'll go with a pair of leather sandals (for restaurants, museums, etc.) and a pair of the newish feels-like-a-sneaker-looks-like-a-shoe shoes (for walking/hiking).

I know there will be a moment when I'll wish I had brought this pair or that, but I guess that's the price we pay for traveling light. At least we won't be tied down like those folks who get off the plane with their two huge suitcases each, and climb immediately onto a massive tour bus!

Can't wait to experience Italy. Is there anything like the adrenalin rush of immersing yourself in a new country/culture...if only for a few weeks?

Thanks and happy travels, fellow thorntree-ers.

11 - my comments were true for men, as I am one :-)

For me comfort is the main thing. It's hot and I don't want to have my feet shut in and sweating. I'm on holiday. I don't care what people think too much, or if I look like a local (practically impossible in a country as fashion-obsessed as Italy, anyway). In fact I don't even want to. I find I've taken walking boots and then done quite mountainous walks in sandals just cos I didn't fancy putting on the boots. Just wear shoes you like to wear in hot weather.

Enjoy and don't worry about dress code!!

#10 - your comments are a tad harsh. The Briton you describe is from a certain (lower) social class, commonly known as a chav, and to be honest I don't see too many chavs in Italy as they tend to go to Spain. It sounds like the only British you have seen are those who hit Italy for Champions League matches and are not to be taken for your average Briton. I am female, do not drink beer and have never worn a football shirt in my life. Don't lump us all together - Britain is made up of 4 nations (England, Scotland, Wales and NI) and England in particular has distinct social classes. The ones in Italy tend, IMHO, to be of the middle and upper classes and certainly don't act like you describe.

BTW - talking of dressing 'modestly' - I would hardly call the Italian girls' penchant for tight white jeans and even tighter sparkly diamante Tshirts modest!! They make us British girls look like nuns.

#16

I was joking, hope none will take that too seriously, I'm sure people can say similar things about the Italians (actually I would love to hear that! If you don't want to look italian DO NOT:...??).

BTW - I happen to know very well the British, being a resident of London...I know there are social classes over here and the difference is huge. I have to admit I don't like that too much, in Italy my friends belong to any background and there is no much difference in the way they behave or education, while here people tend to hang out with people belonging to the "same class".

PS I agree with the dressing modestly in Italy!!

If you don't want to look Italian DO NOT:...??)

Oh dear.... do not "be Italian", maybe? Or maybe it could help to think of what it would take to "fare bella figura", and then do the opposite? But even that doesn't usually work, cos you're still obsessed with your image, as with all those Italian indie chicks! I think the only way really is to come and live for a long time in somewhere like England where people will go out to the supermarket in their pyjamas (so to speak). After a while maybe even an Italian could get to enjoy that freedom from the tyranny of the bella figura?

There are social classes in Italy too, as everywhere! I don't really believe it that people have friends from "any background". I lived in Naples and am quite sure that none of the people I knew in the middle-classs suburbs had any friends in the downtown areas.

Agree with 16 about dressing modestly (whatever that means!) Lots of women are supremely elegant, of course, but others (oh yes, social classes again!) are tarty too - it's just stylish tarty as opposed to chav tarty! Just as the posh girls dress better in Italy, so do the chavvy ones.

Not 100% sure about obsession. As far I am concerned I am not obsessed in the sense that I don't dress up for the others i.e. I would wear a pair of jeans and a shirt if I had to go out but I would wear the same pair of jeans and shirt also If I had to stay home and meet none all day. Of course I can speak for myself...not sure the others. Anyway I think the dress code is not imposed from outside, people dress well to feel well.

This discussion is funny cause just the other day I was discussing about the habit here in London to wear flip flops/sneakers on the way to the office and then switch to high heels in the office. My british female colleagues would say that "heels are too uncomfortable to walk" while my italian girlfriends would say that they "would rather wear shorter heels, but never ever flip flops under a business dress". Point of views!

I totally agree on Naples but that's an exception. In Naples the "lower class" is so LOW that the professionals of the middle-class stick to their Posillipo and Vomero neighbourhoods, private schools etc and would never mix with the people from the "quartieri". But in most of Italy it is different, the son of the plumber and the son of the lawyer go to the same school and their parents are likely to dine together. Italy is more "socialist", like France.

BTW I think teenagers in Italy, especially in the big cities, are very poorly dressed, more and more so. Globalisation?

I agree the caste system is less obvious than over here, but that doesn't mean there is no class system. It's just more subtle, and I don't think this is unique to Naples. Maybe your parents are happy that you have friends from all social groups, but I don't think they'd be so happy if you were to marry a builder, or a Senegalese immigrant. Logical perhaps - if you've been to university and studied philosophy, you're just not going to find much to talk about with someone who didn't go to school really after 14.

I think Italians are obsessed with image. By that I don't necessarily mean designer labels - it could be the opposite. But the packaging is important. I like that - it's funny! But I don't feel any need to join in personally, tho I love the clothes and always buy stuff (also because I can't get any jeans my size in lardy old England). But if some well-dressed fashion victim looks down at my flip flops, that's their problem, not mine. Not many people would admit to "dressing up for others" - we dress to make ourselves feel good. But I think there are strong social constraints on an unconscious level. No one in Italy pops out, even just to buy some milk, in the scruffy clothes they wear at home.

Suiko - I LOVE going to the local shops (where I live in London) in my trackie bottoms - even more so because I cannot do that in Italy! My suocera down in Lecce is obsessed by the bella figura so I have a whole wardrobe of 'smart' clothes that I buy in London and ship down to Lecce to wear when I am there (otherwise she gives my husband grief). Whilst she worries so much about what people think, she just does not realise that I really don't care what other people think. So when I am back in London, I take delight in dressing as slobbily as I can, in the knowledge that Londoners don't give a stuff what I look like! In London, you'd have to be walking around nude before people stared at you ... and even then, we'd most likely just avert our eyes and pretend we haven't seen you.

Yeah, cultural differences, eh?!

I think the thing is, she simply can't conceive of not caring what other people think, that's the problem!

I'm Italian.
My suggestion is: sandals and cool sneakers, such as New Balance or Merrell (they fit perfectly even at restaurants).

As for this perennial search for "bella figura", I dare say it's just one of the many stereotypes - and anyway highly overestimated. Most men tend to be as casual as anywhere else. Or to put it in a better way: we wear t-shirt and jeans as the rest of the world, but maybe both jeans and t-shirt are better quality and more expensive.
So as a rule I'd say that wearing casual is always ok, but the stuff you buy must cost twice as much as you'd pay back home.

teva sandals!

"maybe both jeans and t-shirt are better quality and more expensive."

Exactly! That's bella figura, isn't it? :-)

# 24 - my Italian father in law wears a shirt, jacket, tie and matching trousers EVERY day. Even on weekends. In summer, when hot, he will take off the tie when at home. I have never seen him wearing casual clothes. My suocera insists that my husband wear a fresh, clean shirt even if he wants to go out round the shops and has a hissy fit if she sees me wearing anything casual. All the men in the family always wear shirt and trousers at weekends if they want to go out of the house. Needless to say, my husband also enjoys his trackie bottom liberty at weekends in London! Maybe this is a Southern thing?? I never seen men over 30 here dressed in any way other than smartly.

# 27 That sounds quite countryside, for sure countryside and south are more traditionalist

In general I would say most Italians dress "casual smart" with very little variance, while here in the UK you have got the extremes, the people in "pijamas" and the people with tuxedos, hats (I think the British have a true passion for formal dressing/parties/events, I think in Italy I have never seen a tuxedo apart from La Scala) and the hundreds of Victoria Beckhams of the saturday nights in the Mayfair nightclubs.

But hardly anyone here ever goes to these "formal events" - they're pretty much exclusively for the 1% of the population who like to believe they are an elite!

njarrat,
I've read your comments many times and as far I can say, you're a Londoner who lives in Puglia, right?
Well, the kind of place you're describing, habits, mentality, suocera and stuff, it all seems to me as if your were speaking about a John Fante book. Do things really go that way? Or are you just trying to depict it in such a backward way in order to promote the old sterotypes of mamma-spaghetti-chiesa Italian? I can hardly believe you're in earnest.

As #28 say, it's casual smart.
Jeans, t-shirt, sneakers will do anytime. And if you want to "look Italian" (as if it was something to pursue.... tsk-tsk-tsk....), buy good labels, good quality jeans, t-shirts and sneakers.

So what are you calling me, # 30, a liar? I can assure you it's all true - sadly for me. I am not saying it is backward (those are your words), but things are certainly very conservative and traditional. We are not talking about a large cosmopolitan city like Rome or Milan, but a smallish provincial city in the far South of Italy surrounded by even smaller provincial villages. A place where people seem to have nothing to talk about other than their neighbours, and anyone who dresses or acts in a way that is not the norm gets talked about or stared at.

Sure, not everyone's mother is the same, and I guess my suocera is an extreme version. Doesn't make what I say untrue though. I have been a member of this board for 5 years now and this is the first time that someone has accused me of inventing stuff.

LOL, no njarrat! I'm not accusing you of being a liar! Mine was just an emphatic way of expressing my amazement! ;-)
Please please please please, do not mention with ANYONE what you experience at your husband's when in London. We Eyeties have a poor reputation enough and we don't need someone who depicts such a portait of an Italian household.... ;-))

Oh boy, I don't know if the topic of shoes is that interesting so I was amazed that it managed to pull 32 responses....! I looked and found it extremely funny the way you go at each other.....this I mean without intent to offend so please don't come after me :-) I must say I'm learning a lot about Brits.

Yeah, smart casual.

But that begs the question. What is "casual" for an Italian is "smart" for us! But why on earth would we want to look like Italians anyway? Viva la diversità. no?

Talking about shoes, flip flops and stilettos...

In medio stat virtus, get a pair of Tod's!

Hmm ... those numbers quoted in this survey (run for a company I have never heard of, BTW) don't sound that representative to me. I see very few women going around in stilettoes anyway (they are not that fashionable - wedges tend to rule the roost) and those women who do wear them tend conform to a certain stereotype (we are back to class again!). Put it this way - anything Victoria Beckham wears (who is decidedly NOT 'posh' in English terms but rather media basso) is usually a kiss of death for anyone with a bit of taste.

Am not sure I see the danger in wearing gym shoes - be these trainers, plimsolls etc. These all have rubber soles. What are women - and men - supposed to wear when driving??

Interestingly, I note that Crocs have made it big in Italy. Saw a piece on telegiornale talking about the craze, and even a friend's little daughter was wearing them. They are truly ugly and very unflattering, but I think would make great shoes for gardening as they have closed toes, so I shall get a pair I think. Funny that Crocs have made it whilst Uggs have't - I can't do without my Uggs and they are the most comfy shoes for flying ever.

I'm glad I found this thread. Just booked my trip to Europe, which includes 5 days in Puglia. I've been worried about what to wear in mid-sept, especially shoes, as I'm hoping to go to the beach! but, also hoping to walk around and sightsee and shop, or explore old places (without breaking my neck).
I enjoyed the "England vs. Italy" dress-down (pun intended) because the first place I'm going is London, and I'm equally worried about what to wear there, too, for fashion reasons as well as weather (going to a fancy wedding...eeeks!) had hoped to do the whole trip with just carry on luggage, but there's no way that's happening. just glad to hear I'm not the only indecisive shoe-packer.
side note -- my dad was Italian and I don't think I ever saw him in shorts and tshirts, and in sneakers only near the end of his life (70s). Before then, it was always leather shoes and button down shirts, even to the grocery store. I used to wish he'd dress more "normal" like all the other dads, and less like an old man.
gosh I can't wait to go!

Melody, if you can bear them, Crocs would be perfect for both walking around and sightseeing, and going to the beach - they are so comfortable, and also very fashionable even in Italy. I tend more to flip-flops myself and have a pair of gold leather ones that work for both day and night.

For your fancy English wedding, we tend to dress up. Wedges are very fashionable (still) and are also very comfortable - relatively speaking. So you could get away with packing a smart pair for the wedding and going out, also walking around town (if wedges) and a pair of Crocs or flip flops for Italy beach and sightseeing. Or - depending on where you fly out from - get a pair of shoes from Duty Free. Kurt Geiger has great shoes (branch on South Molton Street in London) and also has a branch in Duty Free at Stansted and most likely other airports. DF prices too.

The good thing about London is that you really don't have to worry too much about your appearance - other than at the wedding. We really don't care what you look like. If you have a sudden desire to look very trendy at a cheap price, just run to Top Shop or the Primark Store (on Oxford Street) for cheap, throwaway fashion that won't break the bank.

I was under the impression that thongs is an oz expression. Beware you could get into all sorts of difficulties on that one! Walking trainers and a pretty pair of light weight sandals will take you anywhere (female wise) . At the end of the day in Italy you can buy whatever footwear you think is necessary.

Yep, thongs are Oz for flip-flops. In the UK a thong is another word for a G-string knicker or bikini.