Hiring a car ain't so easy, perhaps

I want to rent a car for four days, picking it up and returning it at the same airport. Sounds reasonable? That's what I thought. I read the following conditions about the documentation I'm required to have:

A valid photo ID (Passport or National ID). FINE!

For this rental you will also need two forms of proof of address that is the same as on your driver's license: Mmm. NOT QUITE SO FINE. I left that address 37 years ago. Should I have kept the UK livence authorities updated about every one of my 30 or 40 address changes during those years, around the world, and my "no fixed abode" periods, and received back from them a suitably updated document? DO people inform Swansea of an address change?

a) One must be a credit card or bank statement for the credit card presented at the desk.
MY STATEMENTS are electronic but I could, no doubt, get a paper version.

b) The other must be a utility bill (gas, electric, water use bill etc.) Mobile phone bills or council tax bills will not be accepted.
Can the utility bill be in German, Czech, Farsi or Thai, for example, I ask myself. Aren't utility bills normally printed in the language of the country they apply to? And that's without mentioning people whose bill is in someone else's name or who, like me, pay an all-inclusive rent.

Both documents must be dated within 8 weeks of date of hire. Electronic copies are not acceptable. You will have to pass a security validation check by car rental agent.

THEN SOME OF THE INFORMATION GIVEN SO FAR IS REPEATED.
*For this rental you will also* need two forms of proof of address that is the same as on your driver's license:

**
a) One must be a credit card or bank statement for the credit card presented at the desk.

b) The other should ("must", above, has been replaced here by "should". Please make up your minds.) be a utility bill (gas, electric, water use bill etc.) Mobile phone bills or council tax bills will not be accepted.
Both documents must be dated within 8 weeks of date of hire. You will have to pass a security validation check by car rental agent.

I'm wondering: Is this company trying to weed out 95% of the people who might want to rent from them? Those 95% would be the people who don't live at the same address as shown on their driving licence, who don't receive utility bills showing that same address, and who-for one reason and another-don't have paper credit card or bank statements.
Are these difficult-to-fulfil requirements now "normal" or am I the one who is out of step? Have the "good old days"passed by, the days when to rent a car, one needed, say, a passport, a credit card and a driving licence?
Are these requirements "reasonable"?
Is this company serious about these conditions, I wonder.

For this rental you will also need two forms of proof of address that is the same as on your driver's license

I have never been asked for such requirements when hiring a car. I suspect this is a condition specific to you because of what happened when they looked at the data you put in your form. Maybe they did a credit check on you and this is a condition specific to someone with your credit history. Or maybe you told them your driving licence number, and they were able to interrogate the DVLA database, and thus recognise that it has a different address from what you told them or your credit card, and the requirement was a polite way to tell you that they refuse to hire cars to people with wrong addresses on their driving licences.

Should I have kept the UK livence authorities updated about every one of my 30 or 40 address changes during those years, around the world, and my "no fixed abode" periods, and received back from them a suitably updated document? DO people inform Swansea of an address change?

Yes, you should have told them every time you changed address, (though you don't have to tell them if you are of no fixed abode or abroad). It is actually an offence to fail to do so. That is why driving licences are commonly accepted as proof of address. Normal law-abiding people do in fact routinely change their addresses on their driving licence, because it is a problem if your driving licence has a wrong address on it: it is illegal to drive on a wrongly addressed driving licence, a fact that your insurance company will pick up on as an excuse to refuse to pay out any claims if they spot it. In the past people were perhaps a bit slow about it, but now with a national computerised car insurance database a policeman can connect to a numberplate recognition camera within seconds, making sure your insurance is completely kosher has become more important.

Interesting and informative. Not to do with my data, however: I didn't feed anything in (nothing). One can go to this link and have a look at "Rental Conditions":
https://www.arguscarhire.com/book/?c=de%7Cgbp%7Cen-gb&clientID=557721&elID=0427170659094432414&pickupID=3218&returnID=3218&pickupName=Luton%20-%20Airport&returnName=Luton%20-%20Airport&pickupDateTime=2014-04-29T10:00:00&returnDateTime=2014-05-06T10:00:00&age=30&curr=GBP&carGroupID=0&residenceID=DE&CT=AJ&referrer=0:&ns1=1&c=de%7Cgbp%7Cen-gb&gclid=CN-Nso6Ggb4CFbLMtAodtSsAsg&ktrack=1326f271-a8b8-88c8-028f-00005be8c0c3

I have been abroad for the 37-year period I mentioned. Wonderful, then: By not informing "them", I didn't fail to do anything I should have done.
"It's an offence to drive with the wrong address on the licence." That's the sort of thing that makes me want to break as many laws as I can and makes me glad to still be abroad!

Don't you have a driving licence of the country in which you now live? Couldn't you use that instead of your old UK licence?

I hate to pour fuel on the fire here, but I'm pretty sure your long period of non-residence will have invalidated your UK licence.
Official government guidance is that you can't renew to an overseas address and should get a new licence in your current country if residence, with a sizeable fine for non-compliance:

https://www.gov.uk/change-address-driving-licence
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208103/ins57p.pdf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20968886

Er

It's a legal requirement to notify DVLA if you change your address.

As for what #4 says, that's exactly what happened to me. I had to swap my UK licence for a German one. Not that I'm complaining, because every hire car outlet in the world will accept a German driving licence, even more than a UK one. Also, the German authorities got it wrong and gave me more stuff to drive than I'd had on my old licence.

Anyway, which company is it?

Confirmed - I've been resident overseas for 20 years and haven't changed the address on my driving licence (because I didnt have an alternative UK address). Out of curiosity, the last time I picked up a rental car in the UK, I handed over my UK licence to see what would happen. They rejected it because the DVLA database has it flagged as being an out of date address. This wasn't an issue, I just gave them my overseas licence (as normal) which caused no problems.

Its also worth mentioning that Argus car hire are a bucket shop, and have very different requirements to standard car rental agencies. Go direct through any of the main rental companies and they don't ask for an address.

Plus, UK driving licence now have 2 parts - green paper and pink plastic with photo that needs to be updated every 10 years.

fwoggie, how do I swap my UK licence for a German one? I'm* angemeldet* in Deutschland.

byOccasionalHope

**
I hate to pour fuel on the fire here, but I'm pretty sure your long period of non-residence will have invalidated your UK licence**

Doubt it. I think UK licences issued at that time were valid, without need to renew, until the holder's 70th birthday. Doesn't matter if it's been used or not. I still have and use one of that type

Given a valid UK address OP could update it to the modern type free of charge. I doubt if any questions would be asked

Have you got another licence? If you have, you should be able to hire a car using that....

Yes, you have to change your details on your licence when you move, or change your name and the UK licence has to be renewed every ten years. Unless you have the old style (as said above) and then if you don't move, you can drive on that until you're 70.

A friend of mine recently had to change his old style licence, after moving from a home he'd lived in for 30 years. He had to send his passport and some other ID to Swansea to get a new licence.

If your UK licence is of the modern variety and is more than ten years old, it is now invalid (as my son who lives in Oz found out as he can now only drive here for a year before having to re-take his test). But as I said, you can also drive here for a year on a foreign licence and therefore should be able to hire a car on yours, if you have one. You probably shouldn't be driving in Germany (if that's where you live) on your UK one as they probably have a similar law (as does, for example, so does Australia).

Europcar (UK) often ask for 2 proofs of present address when hiring a commercial vehicle (Transit etc.).

If you don't live in the UK, they will accept your (foreign) home address and a valid licence.

A number of issues have arisen here. Argus Car Hires conditions state that two documents bearing the same address as the driving licence must be produced, and that one of these, depending on which part of the carelessly produced document you look at, must/should be a utility bill.
I suggest that the person/persons who produced the list of conditions were thinking within a "British-centric" box. (They considered only the format of a BRITISH driving licence (on which an ADDRESS is written) They require a utility bill (written in ENGLISH, presumably, unless someone fortunate enough to live elsewhere than in Britain carries with them a notarised translation of one of their utility bills!!!) and not only a utility bill but one showing name and address details that correspond to the name and address on the driving licence.
It seems to me that few, perhaps, of those flying INTO a British airport and OUT of the same airport would be people permanently residing at an address in Britain which is the same as that shown on their driving licence AND for which they have a utility bill in that same name. (What, for example, of a person with a driving licence fully in British-style order -which includes living at the address shown on it- but whose utility bills are in the name of his/her wife/husband/partner? No car from this company! As for the foreign visitor, hardly a cat in hell's chance! How many people who are living at the address shown on their dr. licence AND have a utility bill to match, would be likely to want to rent a car in Britain, then drop it off before flying out again.? The people who need cars are mainly tourists/other visitors who are hardly likely to fulfil these hiring conditions.
The company seems to be reducing their potential customer base to a small or even tiny fraction of what it might otherwise be. "They can hire to whom they wish", I hear someone say. I absolutely agree.

*If you don't live in the UK, they will accept your (foreign) home address and a valid licence.

*
Not according to their conditions, I understand. They want a utility bill showing the same address as the licence.
I have an old-style UK paper licence, issued in 1976 and not amended or updated since then, and another licence, in Arabic and English, showing place and date of issue, date of expiry, my photo (as in my passport) and name (as in my passport). There's no address on the licence. I have no utility bills from that country and if I did, they'd be (1) in Arabic (2) without my name (3) out-of-date.
In Germany I don't receive utility bills and if I did, they wouldn't match the address that in any case isn't on the driving licence I've just mentioned!
This car hire company wants a utility bill with the same name and address on it as my driving licence!
I would have thought that a valid driving licence with my name and photo on it (both as per my passport) together with my passport and a current, verifiable credit card would be enough, but what I think isn't the same as what the person who wrote Argus' conditions thinks (and matters not an iota).

When you turn up to Luton Airport or wherever to collect the car, it is not Argus Car Hire you meet, rather you turn up to the specified car hire firm that Argus Car Hire as agent have purchased a deal for you. So it isn't Argus who are going to be looking at these proofs, because they aren't there to do so, and they will sell you the voucher without ever looking at them - they are merely advising you that you need these proofs in order to collect the car from the car hire company. I would imagine therefore that these conditions are conditions that have been imposed on Argus by the car rental company, not Argus's own conditions, and may well be a method by which the car hire company only sells at these supercheap prices through the agent only to customers who can be bothered meeting these tedious conditions. They may also be a method by which the car hire company can look at the voucher and find that there are various surcharges that they must now apply, because that seems to happen a lot when you go through an agent.

"How many people who are living at the address shown on their dr. licence AND have a utility bill to match, would be likely to want to rent a car in Britain, then drop it off before flying out again.? The people who need cars are mainly tourists/other visitors who are hardly likely to fulfil these hiring conditions."

Honestly, I think more than you think, and those who don't fit those conditions are likely to regarded as high risk customers. They want to be sure they can get their money if you damage or steal the car - and that it really is your credit card not someone else's. Also if your licence is invalid (and with an address 37 years out of date I rather think the DVLA would say it is, sorry) so would the insurance be. They care more about those risks than about losing custom of a high-risk and (imo) small group of potential customers.

All EU driving licences have addresses; I can't answer for other countries but I would suspect not having one is more unusual than the reverse. IMO most people who can afford holidays and car hire are likely to have their name on their gas bill or internet provider or similar; if they live with a partner who pays for everything, I expect they think partner is likely to be going on the trip too and will be responsible for the car hire themselves.

You should be able to get a German licence. For the additional evidence of address, is there nothing you pay for yourself for which a bill is sent to you? Could you ask the company if a bank statement would be acceptable? Rental agreement with your name on it? I doubt it needs to be in English as long as it's an obvious address; the Arabic situation is a non starter as you're not resident there anyway and as that one's sans address, it might not acceptable to the car hire company even with an IDP.

Maybe a company which wants a big deposit up front would be more relaxed about these things.

BTW, if your licence is 37 years old wouldn't it be pre-photograph requirements?

It seems this is more personal than normal.

My children live in Oz, and have Australian licences - one only has an Aussie one, one has both, one had a UK licence, now expired. When they come home, they have all hired cars and all they needed was their Australian driving licence and one other form of ID so they used their passports.

I think it's more difficult for you because of the 37 year old licence. You can get an international driving licence, which is simply a translation of one not written in English, which is accepted as proof to drive in this country. Thousands of tourists hire cars here and I've never heard it being made so complicated, so it can only be that something has been flagged up and they are being more cautious.

This car hire company wants a utility bill with the same name and address on it as my driving licence!
I would have thought that a valid driving licence with my name and photo on it (both as per my passport) together with my passport and a current, verifiable credit card would be enough, but what I think isn't the same as what the person who wrote Argus' conditions thinks.

But having established that you cant comply with their stupid Ts&Cs, why are still stressing about what Argus do or don't need? Vote with your feet, and make a booking direct with a rental company that doesn't impose these unnecessary requirements.

Sorry - maybe I was being obtuse above.

Is this a query about a booking you intend to make, or have you already made the booking and now you've become aware that you cant meet the conditions? If the latter is the case, then I'd recommend contacting the car provider direct - get them to confirm in writing what paperwork they require from you.

I 've made no booking nor have I shared any information about myself with the company. The conditions to which I'm referring are given on a pop-up screen there on the page which details the offer. So it's "nothing personal". I need a car for four days and this company appeared organised and well-presented and is about £20 cheaper than others.
In part I was asking the question in order to try to find out if these sort of restrictive conditions are becoming or tending to become "the usual thing".

"the German authorities got it wrong and gave me more stuff to drive than I'd had on my old licence."

German's making a mistake...........Never!!

For info I have used Argus as an agent many times over the last five years or so usually to pick up in Belfast and have never had any problem. As noted they are an agency and in my instance over the years the car hire company has been Budget, Hertz and more recently Sixt. No-one has ever asked me for a utility bill. Since I will have flown in I will have my driving licence and passport.

R

The plot thickens. Several days after asking Argus for clarification, I received the following reply:

"*Please be kindly advised that the above refers to renters with a UK driving license. As I understand, this one would have to be presented, as you are a holder of a UK passport. This does not yet mean, however, that you will not be able to drive a rental car. Please note that some rental providers can make expections, however, it is necessary to proceed with the booking first and enquire them in regards to an existing rental. Should they disagree, your reservation can be cancelled free of charge within 48 hours of the confirmation date."

The country that issues the passport and the country that issues the licence should be the same, they are saying, but "some" renters "can" make exceptions. Just book first (pay your money) then ask the renters if your licence/your passport will be OK. Hope that you get an answer within 48 hours, hope that if the answer is negative, cancellation is then not problematic, and hope (if the answer is "OK") that the person who gave this answer "OK" and the person at the pick-up desk interpret the regulation in the same way. What could be simpler?

Anyone reading this with experience of having a passport and a driving licence from different countries?

Yes, my youngest daughter who has dual nationality, has two passports, one UK and one Australian, passed her driving test in Oz and only has an Australian licence but was able to hire a car here. So, she's British but drove on her Oz licence, but I suppose she could have shown her Oz passport too, if needed. She has no permanent address in the UK as she lives in Oz, and definitely wouldn't have had a utility bill with her when here on holiday.

She rented through Thrifty - going directly to them and not bothering with an agent. Might be worth giving them a call?