Get me excited about Cambodia!!

I just on a whim bought a ticket to Cambodia for a week in March, I live in Japan and am from the USA, being adventurous and like to commit myself to some interesting things. But reading some posts on here now make Cambodia seem a bit dicey and seem like not many people like. I want to absorb some Cambodian culture and spend some time on the beach.

Please help me get excited about Cambodia!!

If you have time could you list three things you LOVE about the country, and maybe just one thing you dislike?

I would really apprecite it,

Z

I love Kampot - relaxing at the riverside, hanging round with the locals, a cold angkor beer with a stunning mountain view
I love the temples - most amazing stuff I ever saw
I love the people, they're open, great fun and really loveable
I love so many things about Cambodia I can't wait to go back next week for my 8th visit

can't really think of much I dislike ... well sometimes its just too hot for my tastes ...and its way too far away from Germany. ;-))

LOVE:

Angkor Wat - the most spectacular sight...it took our breath away
Battambang - a tour around the villages is great fun in a tuk tuk, the locals are so friendly and the best banana shakes and nutella baguettes in the world at the White Rose restaurant
Phnom Penh - the strangest capital city ever, more like a capital town but nice to wander around. Must sees are the Killing Fields, S21 prison and the Russian market.
Sihanoukville - Serendipity beach, very laid back and free beach beds! 50c draft beer
Food - the curries, the fruit shakes, the baguettes and omelettes are fantastic as well as the Angkor beer!

HATE:
The moto drivers - they are utter b*stards and will rip anyone off if they get half a chance and are very aggressive.

Otherwise Cambodia is a great country, full of friendly people who are always willing to help and talk to you!

Enjoy your time in Cambodia...we're going back in the new year for our 3rd visit!

3 things I like:

- The nightlife
- Cheap cigarettes, alcohol, food, drugs etc.
- picking out a big fat mud crab at sihanoukville markets then having it cooked at another stall and heading to the beach to relax in a beach chair with my mudcrab on my lap (and some prawns if I'm really hungry) and a beer beside me while I watch the sunset with some music going in the background and a hot woman by my side - life doesn't get any better.

Things I hate:

- the corruption (but I also love the corruption)
- motodopes

Hi Zazzle-
I, too, live in Japan and am from the USA and spent a little over a week in Cambodia the year before last- Siem Reap exploring the temples and after that Phnom Penh. I adored the people, and was amazed at the sights of Angkor, and the cool historical (and sometimes shocking ) sights of Phnom Penh and the great food and fun markets. Take a spare moment of your time to help out at a school or orphanage if you can. I'm going back to Phnom Penh again (+ down south) in December. You will love it!

Cambodia is not dicey. A bit adenturous, yes, but for the average tourist, no more 'dicey' than any of the surrounding countries. The Khmers are a warm, welcoming, friendly people, Phnom Penh has a great party scene and Sihanoukville does OK too, the countryside can be National Geographic beautiful, fruit of every variety is plentiful and cheap, the women are beautiful rivaled only by their immediate neighbors, provincial towns like Battambang and Kampot are particularly quaint and friendly, most of the provinces really are 'unspoiled' and waiting to be 'discovered,' just in passing you'll see some of the strangest stuff whether fried spiders on a stick or a hundred live chickens strapped to the back of a motorcycle, it's always something, and of course, the temples. I'm sure you've seen photos and heard stories. Anything said would be an understatement. Dislikes...can't say the food's all that great. The best food in Cambodia is Chinese, Thai and French IMO. Traffic and transportation safety is abysmal. Yes, the motodups can be a pain in the ass but get a good one and stick with him and you'll be fine. The most popular temples are over-touristed, but fortunately there are still plenty of other temples that aren't.

i love: the people, generous, positive, accommodating, gracious
i hate: siem reap, overpriced (accept for the optician who fixed my husbands glasses for free: see "i love"), tourist trap but angkor is worth it

loved: angkor wat, angkor beer, the people, hmmm... too many things to write them down.
hated: that i didnt have more time in cambodia

oh just one thing beaches are not that spectacular in cambodia (compared to thailand or vietnam). so go for some other stuff

Cambodia is not any more dicey than any where else in SE Asia. And SE Asia is not dicey in my book, Latin America capitols, hats dicey, you must take a taxi...not so in SE Asia.

Angkor Wat is great, and the countries rich culture, and great people.

Enjoy!

No 1. Angkor Wat & Temples - mystical and wonderous to me!
No 2. The people - kind, smiling, gorgeous.
No 3. The feel of the place, l just love it.

other than the wats cambodia doesn't have anything of importance...one day thing in my opinion but well worth it if you have even just a pedestrian curiousity...

...the beaches aren't even mediorcre..no surf...no good diving...though they do have the lazy atmosphere & cold beer attraction that most of us like for a week or so to recharge batteries for the road

...the capital is a dump...roads are shitty..& the people aren't any more friendly than its neigboring coiuntries

...but it's true 3rd world & you can do just about whatever you want...that's a big plus in today's world

#11 - This is obviously not the place for you. To each their own.

i do agree with you foolsprogress..it's not the place for me on a long term basis...no argument...

..but i don't mind passing thru snooky once in a while...a week is sufficient though i've tried it for longer periods...just not enough to keep me interested in putting down roots

...i know of many places on the 6 continents that are better than snooky for long & short term...no one place has everything i want...snooky falls far short of those dreams

...what cambodia does have in phnom penh & snooky is the biggest groups of loser expats....from many western countries..some good guys as well

...the biggest loser though is gary...the nite bar keeper at sokal bungalows...he looks down on the kymers & yells at them like they are pieces of shit...if they had one tenth of the opportunity this brit had they'd be ten times the person he is..

..at least some of the losers in snooky have a small government check to pay for their existence...they had to be contributors at one time or another...gary has nothing but his $5 a day paycheck, a room & money transfers from mommy

If you spend your travels hanging out with loser 'expats' then it serves you right to suffer in their pathetic company, and the feeling is most likley mutual. What the heck is "Snooky"???

well said cocodrilo...but you have to see the bottomlife every now & then to see what you climbed out of...been there...done that

...cambodia has a bigger percentage of western expat losers than anyplace i've ever been...& i'd wager i've been in more places in this world than most people...

Actually, that was my first impression of Phnom Penh- but it was not the basis on which I formed my entire impression of the city, nor of the country. Other solo female travlers I ran into said they were equally appalled by some of the 'bottom feeders' they met- moreover the huge number of balding fatties with teenagers on their arms.
Um...what is "Snooky"?

I wonder if Zazzlethorpe is excited now? :-)

We are looking at going to Cambodia and Laos in March so I was particularly interested in this thread.

Any tips on great things to do or places to visit with kids? They are quite adventurous, they really love Vietnam and are keen to try new things. Thanks

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BTW - "snooky" is Pattaya blow-in talk for Sihanoukville. Its a term thats just come about since the thai visa laws have changed and the Khmer would not know what the hell your talking about (Sihanoukville or Kampong Som)

Obviously you'd want to see the temples etc of Siem Reap, but apart from that SR is a boring town. I'd advise two days there.
Phnom Penh is a great city. Plenty of night life and food and a few interesting tourist spots as well, all at a more laid back pace than you'd be used to in any other capital city. Sihanoukville is your best option for beach life and is a growing town with new accommodation and restaurants popping up everywhere. Google image search Ochheuteal and Otres beaches for a look.
Cambodia also has the other advantage of being ridiculously cheap- for everything.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>BTW - "snooky" is Pattaya blow-in talk for Sihanoukville. Its a term thats just come about since the thai visa laws have changed and the Khmer would not know what the hell your talking about (Sihanoukville or Kampong Som)<hr></blockquote>The term Snooky has been used for years by most expats and tourists that I know.

Germuno...

I always though Jaco Costa Rica had a good representation of bad ex pats, but they dont treat the locals poorly, they just chase their sisters and mothers...

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<hr>BTW - "snooky" is Pattaya blow-in talk for Sihanoukville. Its a term thats just come about since the thai visa laws have changed and the Khmer would not know what the hell your talking about (Sihanoukville or Kampong Som) <hr></blockquote>
As Battambanghelper correctly noted, they term 'snooky' has been around for more than a few years. The Bayon Pearnik has been running the Snooky-ville Snippets column for at least 4 years and people were using the term before that.

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<hr>...the biggest loser though is gary...the nite bar keeper at sokal bungalows...he looks down on the kymers & yells at them like they are pieces of shit...if they had one tenth of the opportunity this brit had they'd be ten times the person he is..

..at least some of the losers in snooky have a small government check to pay for their existence...they had to be contributors at one time or another...gary has nothing but his $5 a day paycheck, a room & money transfers from mommy<hr></blockquote>
If you hang out in sewers you're bound to meet a few rats. I've managed to miss this kind of low life expat/regular visitor soap opera stuff here, but then again, I don't hang out at $4/night guesthouses. That aside, I do agree that Sihanoukville is less than the ideal beach town and that nobody should come to Cambodia just to go to Sihanoukville. There are far better beaches in other SEA countries. But if you are already here, it's not so bad. The beaches are OK enough. Of all the bars in Sihanoukville, everybody should be able to find at least one that suits their taste. The town has some of the better food in Cambodia, far better than Siem Reap's tourist glop and faux Khmer food. Some of the smaller foreigner places have good home-cooked food and Chinese places like Treasure Island serve brilliant seafood.

Funny, I have lived in Sihanoukville several times over the past 4 years and its onyly been the last year I have heard the term. BTW it won't do you any favours using it amongst Khmer - they actually respect and are proud of the ex king and his name.

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<hr>Funny, I have lived in Sihanoukville several times over the past 4 years and its onyly been the last year I have heard the term.<hr></blockquote>
See, there is a good reason to read the Pearnik.

Actually, I think they prefer 'Kampong Som.'

BTW, what are you doing up so late?

late? late is before midnight - early is after, sleeps not my strong point.

pray tell foolsprogress where do hang out in sihanoukville where you don't find any lowlife...i'm not judging lowlife...as long as it's not of the pedophile grouping...just can only take so much of them...get a a kick out of it for a while & then time to move on...snooky is like that for me.

..sort of like going back to the states & listening to the right wing talk shows like limbaugh, hannity & o'reilly...listen for a while & say to myself...yep...they're still out there

..& i wouldn't be too quick to judge the folks who stay in the cheapies...i find them much more fun than the crowds at the multi star hotels they're as much fun adventurous & interesting as cruise ship travellers

...tightass...the motodrops get a kick out of it when you insert snooky into the snoopy song from a couple of gernerations ago

The term Snooky has been around for at least 8 years, and Id agree that many Khmers prefer to call it Kampong Som.

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<hr>Other solo female travlers I ran into said they were equally appalled by some of the 'bottom feeders' they met-<hr></blockquote>

its pretty funny hearing all these descriptions of bald, fat old men hanging out with teenagers, that description is way off what me and most of my friends are like. I guess you wouldn't recognise us even if you came across us, but we'll probably be avoiding talking to clueless judgemental tourists anyway.

"I always though Jaco Costa Rica had a good representation of bad ex pats, but they dont treat the locals poorly, they just chase their sisters and mothers..."

Down here we only chase the sisters. No mums.

#30- Oh, so you are there to buy teenage girls? I think you missed my point...

you're missing out grooger...mums have more experience..as the old saying goes...they don't moan or groan & thery're grateful as hell

cocodrilo....don't group all teenagers into one category...& what's wrong with responsible prostitution...there is such a thing & it's been around for a long time

...ticotim...haven't been to jaco for years...though i've passed by it many times on the highway between puintarenas & quepos...but i'm sure it's the shits these days

..& i don't mind the daughter/mom combo...it's not so prevalent anymore in puntarenas but in the past many respectable families had daughters who were active in the prostitution business...it's the crack/whore gerneration that has given it a bad name..my time in puntarenas goes back over a quarter of a century...& it's the western culture that's given prostitution a ill deserved bad name...bring bac the concubines

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<hr>..i'm not judging lowlife...as long as it's not of the pedophile grouping...just can only take so much of them...get a a kick out of it for a while & then time to move on...snooky is like that for me.

..sort of like going back to the states & listening to the right wing talk shows like limbaugh, hannity & o'reilly...listen for a while & say to myself...yep...they're still out there

..& i wouldn't be too quick to judge the folks who stay in the cheapies...i find them much more fun than the crowds at the multi star hotels they're as much fun adventurous & interesting as cruise ship travellers...

------

i don't mind the daughter/mom combo...it's not so prevalent anymore in puntarenas but in the past many respectable families had daughters who were active in the prostitution business...<hr></blockquote>
So when you come to Cambodia you deliberately seek out low lives and prostitutes in bargain basement dives, you eschew multi star hotels and the people who stay such places, and now you find yourself surrounded by low lives when you come to Cambodia. No surprise there. If you didn't hang out in the sewer you wouldn't see so much trash.

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<hr>Other solo female travlers I ran into said they were equally appalled by some of the 'bottom feeders' they met- moreover the huge number of balding fatties with teenagers on their arms...

Oh, so you are there to buy teenage girls? I think you missed my point...<hr></blockquote>
Croc - What is your point? Is it about fat, balding men? Is is about pedophilia? Are you suggesting that these "teenagers" are underage? Is it about prostitution? Is it that the legal age for prostitution should be raised? Is it that fat balding men shouldn't hang out with prostitutes? Would it be OK to go with a teenage prostitute if the john is not fat and balding? Or is this about offending the delicate PC sensibilities of fat, hairy western womyn? What exactly is your point?

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<hr>they actually respect and are proud of the ex king and his name.<hr></blockquote>
I don't think I've ever heard a Cambodian using Sihanoukville when speaking Khmer.
OP, I like the people, I like the country, I like the freedom.
I don't like the weather very much and the Khmer food doesn't make me start salivating immediately.

#35 Bottom feeders to some of us are people who are picking up and buying young girls, some of them REALLY ARE girls. I really don't think all that many fat, hairy western women are over there buying 16 year old boys for sex. Are they?

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<hr>Bottom feeders to some of us are people who are picking up and buying young girls, some of them REALLY ARE girls.<hr></blockquote>
Underage girls? You and your solo female traveler friends have actually seen old men with underage children and you didn't do anything about it? Why? The damn child exploitation hotline is all over the tourist pubs here. Why didn't you call it?

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<hr>I really don't think all that many fat, hairy western women are over there buying 16 year old boys for sex.<hr></blockquote>
I didn't suggest that they were. They are the one's turning up their sizable noses at the legal sexual practices of consenting adults. They whine endlessly about 50 year old men with girlfriends and prostitutes 20 years their junior while completely missing real examples of child exploitation going on all around them just because there are no fat, balding western men involved.

BTW, if you have a look at the articles and photos of those arrested for pedophilia in Cambodia over the last few years, most were neither fat nor balding, nor were they all that old. How do you figure that happened? If all these fat, balding pedophiles are so plentiful and obvious to solo female travelers here, how is it that the anti-ped police and NGOs have almost completely missed them?

How the hell am I supposed to know how old the girls are? They all pretty much look underage to me. When you guys are buyin' yer boom boom, do you actually ask for proof of age? Give me a break...

Clueless. Is made-for-TV movie stereotypes all you have?

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<hr>They all pretty much look underage to me.<hr></blockquote>
Are you trying to illustrate how little you know? No need. It's already apparent.

You seem to be rankled for reasons unclear to me. Perhaps you are one of those bald fatteis having his way with girls 30 years his junior- no biggie to me, just have some idea of how ridiculous you look to a lot of us...

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<hr>Perhaps you are one of those bald fatteis having his way with girls 30 years his junior<hr></blockquote>
That was as predictable. Nothing of substance to say?

BTW, I don't think the ugly old guy with the svelte young girlfriend cares what a bunch of fat angry western womyn and backpackers think, but then again I never actually asked them.

"How the hell am I supposed to know how old the girls are? They all pretty much look underage to me."

SE Asian girls do look a lot younger than young girls in the west these days. It's just that you've been conditioned into looking at a 15 year old girl in the west that already has big tits, a huge ass and a solemn attitude, all of which will only grow in the years ahead.
When you see a petite, short Asian girl (who is probably in her late 20's) of course she's going to look like a teenager to you.

I had a 23 year old VNese gf a few years ago. She was talking to a (kilogram challenged) European lady at a market who thought she was so cute. When my gf came over and put her arm around me the European "woman" let loose with a tirade of abuse toward me calling me a disgusting pedo etc and that she was going to "call the authorities". I was a young looking, fit, non-balding 37 at the time.

The real problem with pedo's over here are the local men. Why do you think the market was here in the first place?

#36

Yeh, I know - I just hate the name and was looking for an argument. "Snooky" sounds like a sick fish species from a john west add. Heaven forbid I have to start listening to people in Phnom Penh saying "snooky boulevarde".

The reason western women get so pissed is that they are jealous that western guys have figured out that the hot looking women that have not been corrupted by womens lib bullshit and know how to be REAL women are asians. Having sex or talking to most western women these days is like being with a bloke in a womens body.

Ick. I don't think any woman is going to be "jealous." Jealousy implies that someone else has something we want, and believe me, we don't want you.

Paija, I always think the reason these blokes are going for the young Asian girls has a lot to do with their ahem size. Real men don't need to seek out adulating children.

I'd say the reason is that because of economic reasons, they can.

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<hr>I'd say the reason is that because of economic reasons, they can.<hr></blockquote>
Yeah, I'm sure their beauty, attentiveness and svelte little hour glass bodies has nothing to do with it.

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<hr>Real men don't need to seek out adulating children.<hr></blockquote>
Nor do they eat quiche.

What an amazing thread. Only on the thorn tree. I wonder what the OP is going to make of all this...

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<hr>Paija, I always think the reason these blokes are going for the young Asian girls has a lot to do with their ahem size. Real men don't need to seek out adulating children. <hr></blockquote>

Real women don't need or want a 1 foot shlong (western or asian)

And personally I'm talking about 25 plus not "young girls" by anybodies standard.

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<hr>Ick. I don't think any woman is going to be "jealous." Jealousy implies that someone else has something we want, and believe me, we don't want you. <blockquote>Quote
<hr>

You sound like my last ex-western girlfriend whom I happily dumped for an asian. We don't want you anymore either - difference between us and other western guys is that we have the guts to actually go after what we want and not just stay with some western pain in the ass and dream of better things.

Cocodrilo, I was in Japan recently, and I was appalled to see so many western womnen working as prostitutes there.

Were they minors?

Do you really think a western guy is going to walk around the streets in public with a underage girl he having sex with? highly doubt that, its all under the radar, if you look at the CNN expose that was done on Cambodia, its the back alleys and dodgy world of poverty that the PEDO has to ancounter for such disgusting behaviour.

But on another note, whether your in Costa Rica, or Japan, Thialand or Romania, the sex trade is always anchored by the 18-22 age that looks 15-18 years old, maybe 1 in 10 have look to pull off a young girl, but more than not they are 18 I bet.

As all the posters have shown, man or woman, we would certainly try to investigate such a problem if we saw it no? But then remember, many western men have adopted, or married women in developing countries, and are walking in the malls and sidewalks with a young girl or boy the care for and would never be a PEDO, so you cant accuse a older guy with a young girl of being a Pedo, unless the affection and actions are obviously and overt showing its not a father/sibling.

If you want to witness gross people, I am told Pattaya Thailand makes BKK look gentile in comparison....

I also am told in Costa Rica, that in Managua Nicaragua, a under 18 girl will sleep with a trucker for a pack of cigs and $10...

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<hr>How the hell am I supposed to know how old the girls are? They all pretty much look underage to me. When you guys are buyin' yer boom boom, do you actually ask for proof of age? <hr></blockquote>

Look, I'm no big fan of sex tourism. But yes, I've heard a lot of guys say that they do exactly that, and it's probably the result of laws that make sex with underage women a crime back in the tourist's home country. In Thailand, when guys check into hotels with women, security guards and receptionists do check identity cards to see that the woman is 18+, so a lot of clients are proactive on that score. A much discussed issue is who's responsible when women use fake id cards. But it does seem to have made a difference to the behaviour of men who aren't specifically looking for very young women. After a bunch of brothels were raided in London a while back where there were women working under duress and without proper pay, there was talk of making it a criminal offense for men to have sex with women working under those conditions and to put the onus to ensure that they weren't on the client. It would be interesting to see what would happen if those laws were made to apply overseas, too.

PS OP, sorry, this thread seems to have drifted off sideways, doesn't it?

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<hr>After a bunch of brothels were raided in London a while back where there were women working under duress and without proper pay, there was talk of making it a criminal offense for men to have sex with women working under those conditions <hr></blockquote>

The UK has archaic, 19th century prostitution laws which encourage sexual servitude and work under duress. The UK is not in any position to lecture anybody about morals.

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<hr>The UK has archaic, 19th century prostitution laws which encourage sexual servitude and work under duress. <hr></blockquote>

I'm not a lawyer or anything, but I'm quite prepared to believe you: in fact, I think the people pushing for the changes to the law were trying to make the same point.

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<hr>Were they minors? <hr></blockquote>
Croc - Just like the "teenage girls" with their bald, fat boyfriends that you and your solo female travelers supposedly saw here, almost certainly not. Though I must admit, I am still surprised that if you and your friends truly believed that you were witnessing men with minors, with underage girls, that you would actually choose to do nothing about it, not even bothering to call the child exploitation hotline to report them. If your tales are true, you and your friends chose to simply leave these children in the hands of pedophiles. That's either incredibly callous, or your tall tales of seeing "teenagers" with old men is bs. Oh yes, I almost forgot, you later claimed that you can't really tell how old they were. So here on TT when you are telling your anonymous "Off the Rails" stories, you and you friends have witnessed "huge numbers" of "teenagers" with old men (fat, bald men.) But in the real world, when you had the opportunity to save one or more of these underage girls, suddenly you can't tell how old they were. How very convenient, for your holiday and/or for your story-telling.

I must take a leaf out of cocodrilo's book, next time I go to visit a new country, Ill check out a few of the ugliest people, and then judge everyone else on what those people were like. I guess we can't expect much from someone who works hard to satisfy perverts in Japan.

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<hr>Jealousy implies that someone else has something we want<hr></blockquote>

Sure, and since none of us are cake-sellers, you aren't jealous, right?

"I also am told in Costa Rica, that in Managua Nicaragua, a under 18 girl will sleep with a trucker for a pack of cigs and $10..."

I don't smoke so how do I get on then?
An extra few bucks maybe?

maybe just a bigger truck.

#58 So, you purchased the services of those hookers while in Jpaan? How much were they asking? Most definitley not Asian, as blonde and big-boobed are all the rage here with Asian guys!

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<hr>Most definitley not Asian, as blonde and big-boobed are all the rage here with Asian guys! <hr></blockquote>
Here too. Russian and East Euro imports for the most part.

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<hr>#58 So, you purchased the services of those hookers while in Jpaan? How much were they asking? <hr></blockquote>
No idea, I don't go for skanky hoes.

#64 So you prefer the SEA hoes, who are not skanky?

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<hr>So you prefer the SEA hoes, who are not skanky?<hr></blockquote>
I would imagine that if one was going to use a "hoe," they would prefer a non-skanky one, regardless of her nationality.

I like a mixture of skanky and non-skanky, depending on my mood at the time.

The Russian mob runs women everywhere, Middle East to Thailand, New York to Istanbul.

I met a Colombian girl from Bogota that few to Japan on 90 Visas, and worked at as a Dancer, and then flew to Costa Rica and went to school for 6 months and study art at the University....

She said the Japanese are the kinkiest men on earth, and she is pretty hip chic, as she DJ's in Miami, Havana and Paris, and made a haul off Japanese Business men, $1000 night, and didnt even have to sleep with em...

What this has to do with getting excited about a trip to Cambodia I have hardly a clue, but what the hell, this thread as been assaulted to a point of morphing into a "Save the Children" thread...

90 day visas

too funny ticotim...your 68 post...

#64, How utterly predictable. To me they are all skanky, especially pasty lard ass white ones like you.

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<hr>How utterly predictable.<hr></blockquote>
Seems SOP for her. Unable to defend her actions or admit to her bs, all she has left is name calling.

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<hr>The Russian mob runs women everywhere, Middle East to Thailand, New York to Istanbul.<hr></blockquote>
Interestingly, the last foreigner to be busted in Cambodia for having sex with underage girls (just a couple of weeks ago) was a Russian 'businessman,' richer than God and, contrary to Croc's imagined stereotypes, neither bald nor fat, but apparently he liked his young teenage girls.

It would be nice if people kept 'liking teenage (looking) girls' separate from 'pedophilia'.

Google it; pedophilia is being attracted to children. (As in, prepubescent children).

(Separate from that of course there's the laws of consent, which set a legal minimum age that people have to stick to. There's the laws of the country your in, and then the laws of the country you're from. )

Good point...

Many teen girls in Latin America are pregnant at a young age, say 15-18, by the local boy within the same age range, and no one has a issue with it, but under 14, its considered too young even by local standards...

A Pedo is normally interested in girls younger than 12, which most cultures consider too young, as they are children, not even in puberty yet.

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<hr>It would be nice if people kept 'liking teenage (looking) girls' separate from 'pedophilia'.

Google it; pedophilia is being attracted to children. (As in, prepubescent children).

(Separate from that of course there's the laws of consent, which set a legal minimum age that people have to stick to. There's the laws of the country your in, and then the laws of the country you're from. ) <hr></blockquote>
Granted, but this thread wasn't worth the investment in such precision. If Croc ever got past her vague insinuations about "teenage girls" and stereotypes of fat, balding sexpats, perhaps we could have gotten serious about this thing, used terms properly and discussed real issues instead of backpacker fantasies. But we never got there.

I loved Cambodia, we planned on a week and stayed three.
as above, Siem Reap/Angkor is a must, Phnom Penh - crazy city, heartwrenching history - I was awed by the people's resilience in the face of so much recent tragedy, people were so friendly and welcoming.
One place not mentioned above is Bokor National Park, it is near Kampot. It is an abandoned French hill station that was once occupied by the KR. It's quite haunting.
Sihanoukville is an ok beach, nice enough but not my first choice of beaches in SEA.
It can be depressing, the brutal history, people maimed by landmines or polio, poverty.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>Interestingly, the last foreigner to be busted in Cambodia for having sex with underage girls (just a couple of weeks ago) was a Russian 'businessman,' richer than God and, contrary to Croc's imagined stereotypes, neither bald nor fat, but apparently he liked his young teenage girls.<hr></blockquote>

The guy IS Russian Mafia and his corporation is owned by cyprus mafia and he is a deadshit. The corrupt guys in the embassy have put a blanket around anything to do with him.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>The guy IS Russian Mafia...<hr></blockquote>
Golly gee, you think so Beaver?

IJM got him. He's got big problems.

Meanwhile PM Hun Sen disowns his adopted daughter for being a lezzer

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<hr>Meanwhile PM Hun Sen disowns his adopted daughter for being a lezzer<hr></blockquote>
This was posted by somebody yesterday and, oddly, it seems to have been deleted.

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<hr>Golly gee, you think so Beaver?<hr></blockquote>

Your a tool buddy, hope I bump into you in the street.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>IJM got him. He's got big problems.<hr></blockquote>

Yeah right (sarcasm)

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<hr>Your a tool buddy, hope I bump into you in the street.<hr></blockquote>
hehe. You lose.

Take your anti-bald blather and jam it.

bun cha
----------------------
Mr. Testosterone to you

anybody who sires a kid he can't afford to educate properly....slams the locals as little children who need to be taken care of....is despised by everybody else who works the day shift ..at age 50 has to ask mommy to wire him money ..deserves to be slammed

....gary's a loser

...that goes for people who correct other people's spelling #83...

Ok. So imagine that none or comparitively few of the girls/boys are underage, just very young in comparison to many of the people paying for their services (in one way or another). (hypothetically speaking)
Young and desperate, truly desperate, haven't all of us who have been to Cambodia not been saddened or sickened by the darker side of prostitution there? I noticed the so called "bottom feeder" element more there than in the two weeks I was there than all my time in Thailand.

Those men that are so revolting that even the hardened and most forgiving don't want to drink liquor with them for breakfast.

I do understand a few men here have gotten defensive due to the words fat and balding, thinking all men get painted with the same brush.
Fat, balding and older do not make a person revolting. it is their actions and obscene exploitation that make them such.

Cambodia is a country worth visiting and has many attributes, but boy is it a mess. But I am sure everyone on this board knows that.

I have seen skinny, handsome young men who are revolting and "bottom feeders "too.

I know I am not alone amongst the kind men on this thread who see the same thing.

Yeh, your probably right. But what pisses me off is western women categorising us all into the same class. Personally I left Australia after another boring western relationship and fell in love with a Khmer woman. I married her, built a home, stick by and respect her, am not old, fat or ugly and still have to suffer the odd sideways sneer from judgemental western women. ( and ironically I have more in common and have much more fun with my khmer wife than I have ever had with a western woman)

BTW I know the crowd your talking about and avoid them like the plague, have even bashed the odd pedophile so please do not categorise every western male with an asian woman into the same class.

This post has been removed because it may not have met our community guidelines.

You are entitled to your opinion roadking, but you are generalising. One can also generalise about the asian woman stereotype.
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<hr>Western women are becoming such hard work, they want you to be masculine, femine, metrosexual all rolled into one, and they want everything when you split.<hr></blockquote>
One could say that even though a generalisation, is one of our western society, with just as many from probs from the men. Someone wanting everything when you split is a thief.

tightass, it is also common, unfortunate and hurtful that the genuine couples get tarred with the same brush. Hold your head high, and people with intelligence will see your realtionship is genuine.

We western women also hate the generalisations. Why don't we stop it now.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>I noticed the so called "bottom feeder" element more there than in the two weeks I was there than all my time in Thailand.<hr></blockquote>

I honestly wonder where you people go where you see all these "bottom feeders", because I can think of a few bars that I avoid that might appear like you say, but why do you go there anyway? What makes you think any of these people live here anyway, your descriptions sound more like that of an average sex-tourist.
You might be surprised to know that there are many young professionals living here that dont come anywhere near these descriptions,but you are obviously patronizing different places.

Ive never been to Pataya, but even looking at the news from there it is obvious that it has far more crazy, fuct up loonatics and sex tourists aound it than the whole of Cambodia.

This post has been removed because it may not have met our community guidelines.

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<hr>I know the crowd your talking about and avoid them like the plague, have even bashed the odd pedophile...<hr></blockquote>
Tracking down and bashing pedophiles too - and more than one. Amazing.

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<hr>Hold your head high, and people with intelligence will see your realtionship is genuine.<hr></blockquote>
I used to think you are right about this but my observation has been that the those who are going to look down on a western man/Asian woman couples continue to do so regardless of the real nature of the relationship. By way of example, at the Independence park a few months ago I saw a 20-something couple of western tourists giving the sour-face stare to a couple I know - a 50 yo guy and his 30 yo Asian wife. And I thought to myself, 'if they knew this was his wife of 8 years and they are happy and have a family, they'd think differently.' Shortly thereafter, the nanny brought their kids there and everybody sat together, they bought ice cream and played, and the sour-faced tourists got even sourer, hands on hips, clicking their tongues, scrunching up their tiny little Australian mouths even smaller like they just bit into a lemon. I don't know what they think they saw in this man and his wife, but clearly, there was nothing he could do to win their approval...not that he should have to. 'People with intelligence' don't bother themselves judging the relationships of other consenting adults.

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<hr>We western women also hate the generalisations. Why don't we stop it now.<hr></blockquote>
Nice idea (albeit a generalization.) But it would be nice if the western woman who started all this agreed.

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<hr>I don't know what they think they saw in this man and his wife, but clearly, there was nothing he could do to win their approval<hr></blockquote>
I know what you mean. One of my parents is Asian, one is Western. Occasionaly years ago during family outings, we's come across a group of this type of moron.

Notice to this type of patronising, moralising (not that their 'morals' have any basis in reality) moron: you are only making yourself angry and stupid looking for no reason whatsoever. Plus you are running a real risk of finding a fist landing on your face. Grow up.

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<hr>Tracking down and bashing pedophiles too - and more than one. Amazing. <hr></blockquote>

Fool - Yeh, what have you done lately besides living behind your computer and bagging everybody elses information. What are you self appointed moderator who's information and morals are the only correct ones? Get outside and smell the exhaust fumes a bit.

Nah. I don't know where it is you hang out and find pedophiles. But wherever it is, I don't want to go there. Nor do I support or want to be a part of extra-judicial justice.

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<hr>But what pisses me off is western women categorising us all into the same class.<hr></blockquote>

I think the big thing that pisses off Western women is that the guys who do this categorize all Western women into the same class, as well. I don't think I need to tell you what class we're categorized in. We're apparently all fat, all ugly, all mean, all bitchy, all manly. Guess what...we're not. And the stereotypes we hear out of the mouths of a lot of men riles the situation. (Especially if you're a long term female expat in Asia, and spend a lot of your time having to interact with Western guys here). It's just as bad as Western women judging your relationships with Asian girls.

Also whining about 'womens lib bullshit' makes it sound as though you believe women should never have figured out that they are equal human beings who deserve equal respect and chances in life. That's all real womens lib is or ever was. All the feminazi man-hating stuff is in the vast minority, and the women who espouse it, like all extremists, are best avoided by everyone.

Finally, talking about what men like and 'men who date Asian women have it right, of couse we don't want white girls' or whatever is a judgement against other men! Who are you to say what the preferences of other Western men are? My (Western, living in Asia with me, a Western woman - heaven forfend!) boyfriend gets pretty offended by that and frankly, I can see why.

As for relationships between two consenting adults - whatever. Chances are that if you've got a 'thing' for Asian girls, you're not the type most Western girls want anyway - decent-looking or not. If you meet enough Western guy-Asian girl couples, you get a good sense for what's creepy and what's just two happy, consenting, genuinely-mutually-in-love people. The latter is scary and best avoided in social situations. The latter is fantastic, because race really shouldn't matter.

But to say that ALL such pairings are "not" creepy is totally off. To say that they all are is also off-base.

*the last sentence should say the former is scary, the latter is not. oops.

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<hr>I honestly wonder where you people go where you see all these "bottom feeders", <hr></blockquote>
Just walking down the street, sitting in cafes, bars etc. Are you saying you never saw them? I can't believe it! Seriously, not trying to argue or wind you up. I am very chatty, and always give people a go when travelling as I don't want to be presumptuous, and this meant I ended up talking to some, or overhearing load conversations and seeing unsavoury things.
Maybe some of us who spend a long time in asia just don't notice it anymore.
Please don't call me a "you people";-) I don't agree 100 percent with either side in this debate, and understand there are many complexities.
I am aware as you mentioned many expats, probably the majority in fact given the multitude of ngos are decent "normal" people. It is just pretty in your face in comparison to the prostitution industry in Western countries don't you think?
I agree some of the men may be sex tourists, but some also live there.
I don't know that it makes much difference to what i am talking about?

#91, I am not canning you for your choice to be with asian women. I have spent a long time in asia and understand the attraction. You don't need percentages to justify your quote. I just think the generalisations from both sides are hurtful as there is a vast variety of people in between, prejudice doesn't help anyone.
It is your life and your responsibility to make it happy. And if you are, good job.
Re: the "bottom feeders", they are miserable and make everyone in their path that way.

foolsprogress. The sourfaced tourists ...what can say, they sound awful , and i know this happens to many innocent people, it is unfair, and I feel sorry for these people.

Sorry OP, I will now answer you with some of the things i love about Cambodia.

Siem Reip I found to be a nice little town, some great little cafes and places to eat, lots of shops to buy beautiful handicrafts, a great market and plenty of ngo and shops selling wares to help the disadvantaged. There are a couple of hospitals where you can donate blood, with safe sanitary conditions, many tourists i met did this. When you see the poverty it is nice to be able to help in a concrete way.

Battambong I found lovely, nothing much there as it's quite small, but lovely scenery by the river, a nice place to kick back and relax.

Phnom Penh I didn't stay long, but the russian market was good

Sihannoukville was nice, the starfish cafe a great place to swap and buy books, hang out in a hammock, read and eat home baked goods, they support people with disabilities as well...

Victory beach I didn't care for, Serendipity is supposed to be nicer.

And I found the cambodians in general to be lovely.

Cheers, joy

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<hr>But to say that ALL such pairings are "not" creepy is totally off. To say that they all are is also off-base.<hr></blockquote>
Nobody said anything about 'creepy' until now, one way or the other. Within this thread, this is a new standard by which to judge other people's relationships. You complain about guys judging western women unfairly and admitted that "it's just as bad as Western women judging your relationships with Asian girls." And yet here you are judging relationships that are not between "genuinely-mutually-in-love people" to be "creepy." Don't be surprised if the people that you judge to be creepy and the people who feel you might judge them to be creepy don't turn around and judge you, probably in accordance with the standard stereotype.

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<hr>And the stereotypes we hear out of the mouths of a lot of men riles the situation.<hr></blockquote>
Take note that in this thread it was a woman that began with the generalizations about "fat bald men" and their "teenage girls." Prior to her comments about men with Asian women, no mention had been made of angry cowish western biddies. That came in response. You are correct to say that stereotyping riles the situation. Just look at this thread.

98 - I don't think it's anybody's place to judge anyone elses personal relationships.

Maybe one or both of the parties is someone you would never talk to or invite into your house in a fit, but they aren't breaking any laws [or even in countries where prostitution is illegal, it's so open that it obviously has government sanction at every level], they are not forcing anyone to spend any time with them.

So it is nobody's business except the people involved. Tsk-tsking them is pointless.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>angry cowish western biddies.<hr></blockquote>
and if young, angry lesbians in comfortable shoes ;-P

I can't win!

OK- while we're at it, how 'bout the young western female travelers with the camisoles and abundant muffin tops? (that type I've noticed even more often than balding fatties with pre-nubiles at the gold shops)

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<hr>and if young, angry lesbians in comfortable shoes <hr></blockquote>
Same same but hot.

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<hr>camisoles and abundant muffin tops<hr></blockquote>
I might agree if I had any idea what that is.

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<hr>I've noticed even more often than balding fatties with pre-nubiles<hr></blockquote>
So you are still claiming to have seen old men with underage girls and you did nothing about it. Hmmm...

No, because you guys keep telling me they all look that young and that I am mistaken. I would not hesitate to inform the authorities if the girl looked like an elementary school student.

Muffin top is the fat that hangs over her pants. Witht eh tummy-bearing camisoles, it looks remarkably similar to a muffin.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>Same same but hot.<hr></blockquote>
lol...<blockquote>Quote
<hr>So you are still claiming to have seen old men with underage girls and you did nothing about it. Hmmm... <hr></blockquote>
It is a bit difficult though foolsp. you gotta get them at "the right" time, that can be difficult. Really, are you positive you haven't seen any dodgy looking things in all the time you have spent in asia?

sniffs and sobs quietly....head lowered in shame...I have a little bit of a muffin top......but I don't wear camisoles....

I am not baldy or sweaty though, but i do have this rash.....

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>Really, are you positive you haven't seen any dodgy looking things in all the time you have spent in asia?<hr></blockquote>
Oh I've seen some dodgy stuff here, more back in the day than now, but never in "huge numbers," and these days certainly not out in the open for all to see. Barring some rare exception, men simply do not walk around in public with underage prostitutes. It would be a bust at the very least. If Croc had claimed that she was in some dingy prostitute bar at 2AM and saw one that look underage, or that she was in a brothel village and saw some underage girls, that would be credible. But the claim to have seen "huge numbers" of westerner men hanging out in public with underage prostitutes would have been an incredible claim even back in the semi-mythical Off the Rails days.

foolsprogress, I was trying to be kind when I implied two people not mutually in love as a couple.

As I noted, you get a sense of who's creepy and who's not. I personally (this is a personal opinion and should by no means be taken as a proclamation or affectation of the 'truth', it's simply what I think) find Western guys, looks and age unimportant, who have a sort of 'fetish' for Asian women, and who to that end also constantly slag off Western women for lacking all the attributes they see Asian women as having...to be creepy.
s
Dating a girl because you really like her regardless of race is a totally different matter. But to pretend that the former of the two never happens or to say that nobody has a right to think it's kind of unsettling is off-base.

Also note that a lot of responses above - regardless of who the topic was started by (isn't "But she started it!" an excuse that was banished in third grade?) really are demeaning towards women and women's equality. Anyone who's going to categorically slam Western girls and then declare womens lib to be 'bullshit' (showing a poor understanding of the modern world) is also...yep...creepy.

They're not breaking any laws, and they can do as they please. It doesn't really affect me at all. Even when I was single it didn't affect me - think about it. Why would any self-respecting woman want to date men who slag her off? Of course she would not.

But I'm allowed to have an opinion on the matter and it's perfectly permissible to voice it in a thread where the topic is being discussed. There's really no more to it than that. If I pass such a couple I don't 'tsk tsk' and I don't turn sour-faced...why would I? However if the topic is being discussed I'll be honest with what I think. There are times when it's just plain ol' creepy. And times when it's not.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>If Croc had claimed that she was in some dingy prostitute bar at 2AM and saw one that look underage, or that she was in a brothel village and saw some underage girls, that would be credible<hr></blockquote>I used to stay long term in a place in Chiang Mai, where not a lot of times, but enough to put that sick feeling in my stomach that something seriously sick was going on.
Eg. Would hear the music next door go on very loud at 3am when the gentleman would bring home a guest. A few times daytime also would see the man going into his room with different young men, they were very vulnerable looking with their eyes downcast, poor looking and i would get a stab in the gut that he wasn't "helping them" in some way. They may have been 15 or 16.
Unless i actually "saw" something I felt in a very difficult position to call the cops to check him out in his room. I did talk to the manager who is a friend of mine though. he moved out not long after, so my dilemma was not an issue.
I guess the issue here is that there has been a blending of this type of thing seen to the more common deadbeat alcaholic unsavoury characyer who is making a show of himself in public with young girls not necessarily underage, but the thought of him putting his greasy paws near those girls makes you retch. Some of them are cheap charlies who get the girls to be like a slave for piddling amounts of money and are treated to abuse.
It probably happens in our culture as well, but it stays where it should be. In private.
Then you also have the braggers who will openly tell you all about their exploits no matter how much you protest (you're being uptight) . Or the others who tell you they are "supporting" the family, and helping send the young girl to Uni. How kind he is. The fact that he pays a couple of thousand baht a month to bang the kid isn't referred to . He is in his 60s and doesn't bother to brush his teeth or wash his hair.There are plenty of these men in your face all over Thailand.

But i am carried away with my stories.

I also know there are many nice men with genuine relationships, or kind intentions, who get mistakenly tarred with the same brush. But that is not who I am talking about.

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<hr>I also know there are many nice men with genuine relationships, or kind intentions, who get mistakenly tarred with the same brush. But that is not who I am talking about.<hr></blockquote>

And I know some nasty women who have bad intentions. So what?

Fools @#108-
Be careful- you are putting words in my mouth.
I said, and for the third time, that I saw plenty of men who were with women who looked like teenagers and that how could one be sure that they were at least that(to which no one here has yet bothered to reply).

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>And I know some nasty women who have bad intentions. So what? <hr></blockquote>not saying they are all the same

in response to reply 46- your prejudices are showing quite clearly- not to mention your envy and jealousy

112

ask for their ID?

Croc
<blockquote>Quote
<hr>Fools @#108-
Be careful- you are putting words in my mouth.
I said, and for the third time, that I saw plenty of men who were with women who looked like teenagers and that how could one be sure that they were at least that(to which no one here has yet bothered to reply).<hr></blockquote>
Be honest now. You didn't say "plenty" and you didn't say "looks like," at least not before you started backpedaling. You said:

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<hr>"Other solo female travlers I ran into said they were equally appalled by some of the 'bottom feeders' they met- moreover the huge number of balding fatties with teenagers on their arms."

---

"...I've noticed even more often than balding fatties with pre-nubiles"<hr></blockquote>

And I did reply to you, as did others. Some quite extensively. For example, see post #54. My reply was in the other thread you started about this on the women's branch. I said that just because 25 year old Asian women look like "teenagers" to you doesn't mean we are all so blind.

Gawd, are you draggin' this thing up again? (sigh)
LOOK, Fools- your first quote (of mine) is what OTHER women I met said. I was simply stating their observances. Do you understand this?

Your second quote of mine leaves off the first half of the sentence, in which I state that I have noticed camisole-wearing fat-belly showing western women even more often than balding fatties with pre-nubiles. Please read the post in its entirety before you start quoting me!

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<hr>Gawd, are you draggin' this thing up again? (sigh)<hr></blockquote>
I thought it was dead until I saw that you had responded yet again at #112. If you want it to die, let it.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>your first quote (of mine) is what OTHER women I met said. I was simply stating their observances.<hr></blockquote>
And yet you went on to try to justify why you didn't do anything about it. When confronted about this claim the first time you said: "How the hell am I supposed to know how old the girls are? They all pretty much look underage to me." Pedantics and semantics can't save you from this one. If you are going to debate, do it honestly. Either admit that what you said was wrong, or defend it. Semantic games don't cut it.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr> I have noticed camisole-wearing fat-belly showing wearing fat-belly showing western women even more often than balding fatties with pre-nubiles.<hr></blockquote>
So you still are claiming to have seen "balding fatties" with underage ("pre-nubile") girls, and yet did nothing about it. Why?

Again- define "underage". The girls those menwere with were visibly not with children. But the young ladies could've been 14 or 15. What is the 'legal' age for prostitution in Cambodia? Do you know?

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>Again- define "underage". The girls those men were with were visibly not with children. But the young ladies could've been 14 or 15. What is the 'legal' age for prostitution in Cambodia? Do you know?<hr></blockquote>
14 or 15 is way too young. Those aren't "young ladies," they are young girls. A good portion of the foreigners that are busted here are busted for girls around that age. The age of consent in Cambodia is 16yo in ordinary circumstances, 18yo for prostitutes. Under some 'international laws' (such as the US's international anti ped laws) it is 18yo regardless.

Ok it seems that this thread has gone way off topic - I am also planning a trip to Cambodia and would like to know the good and bad of the country from people who have traveled there before.

Is there anything anyone can add that hasn't already been said in the first few posts?

Thanks :)

Open a new thread.