EBC - making the most of it in a month

HI all,

My boyfriend and I are hoping to do EBC in March. We have a budget of around 50usd per day between us. This is for our whole six month trip so we are able to stretch to more for this part of the trip if necessary. It is something we are both set on doing and want to do it well; ideally through an agency that supports independent trekkers so will set us up with a guide/porter and organise permits, TIMs, flights and any additional equipment we might require. Could anyone tell me if this is achievable on the budget? If not, exactly how much more would we be looking at. As I said, we can make it happen by tweaking other parts of our trip but we are really set on this and are keen to have a porter/guide.

We are only in Nepal for a month so would like to do the two week trek (I believe that is without the Jiri walk in?) What do you guys think? We would like to keep if to two weeks so we have some more time to do a bit of rafting for a few days, and we have allowed the rest of the time incase we get behind on our itinerary or something else takes our fancy. Does anyone have any other suggestions for "must-sees" or "must-dos"?

Any advice gratefully received.

Please don't be shy with any companies you can recommend.

Boosids

There are lots of agencies that are very reliable so it is better when you are in kathmandu go to some agencies and and meet the people you might be going to trek with which helps you have better local person then without checking them out.

Yes two weeks is enough for Everest trekking but it is also a pick season so make sure you you have places to stay in places like labouche, goreshep, and if you are doing Cho-La pass then in the places like Zongla.

I would suggest you to have 30-35$ per person during trekking but it also depends upon your spending. Most of your spending can be in liquid because you have to drink plenty. take water purifier it will save your some cash. take a mask also you will need in some of the places.

If you have time visit Bandipur a typical beautiful village on the way to Pokhara. I would suggest you to go for rafting in Bhote koshi or Kaligandaki which is much more thrilling then Trishuli.Do mountain biking around Kathmandu valley such as to Nagarkot-dhulikhel.

Visit Bhakatapur durbar square that has got Old Malla(rulers of the kathmandu valley from 14-17 centuries) Palace Listed in world Heritage sites. You will also see houses surrounded with temples and evening life in this place makes it worth to spend few nights in here.

The Swyambhunath(monkey temple) better to visit in evening. The temple believed to be built 2000 years ago on an island when Kathmandu was a lake.

Kritipur's upper town which is in kathmandu valley.The upper place is unchanged for many years
the people's house and living style are same as that were few hundred years ago.

There are lots of things to see but these are few things that you don't want to miss.

There are also places that are not in tourist guide books which are interesting such as the courtyard with temples and old houses built in 16-17 centuries.

All the best and hope you will find everything what you are looking forward to see in Nepal.
Bhuwan.

Good advice in the post above.
As for water/liquids...
>Most of your spending can be in liquid because you have to drink plenty. take water purifier it will save your some cash.

I didn't buy one single bottle of water on the trek and filled my bottle at lodges, asking the kitchen staff. I didn't think buying water was necessary. The water was fine.
I trekked along with my wife who has sensitive stomach. None of us had any problems. We had purifying tablets with us but never used them, and returned them to the pharmacy at half the price, after the trek.
We also filled up our bottles with water from the streams, on higher elevations where there's nothing that can polute the water. I thought it was much better quality than in my supermarket.

I’m afraid that my own “Advice” is somewhat different from your previous replies.

First of all, I don’t think your budget of $25 ($50 between you) each per day is anything like enough when you add in all your costs
1) Your Lukla flights will be about $240 each = $480
2) Your Porter/Guides Lukla flights about $110
3) Your Porter/guides salary 14 days at about $20 per day $280
4) Your national park entry fee $15 each = $30
5) Your TIMS (Through an agent) About $20 each = $40
6) Your own daily food and accommodation (Middle figure) $30 each = $60 = $840

Grand Total for 14 days =$1540 = $110 per day, so over double your allocated budget

Next – I Certainly wouldn’t recommend drinking untreated water Anywhere in Nepal, IMHO the above poster and his wife have been Very Lucky not to have gone down with any amount of stomach related bugs by taking such a risk – There are plenty of options for safe drinking water including filters, boiled water and treating your own

Be Very Careful when selecting your agent – Yes there are some excellent agents out there – But also some very bad ones too – Maybe PM some regular posters for recommendations but then double check them for adverse feedback by using Google – PM me if you want my own recommendation of the chap I have used since 1994 on 8 visits to Nepal

Lots of other things to see and do, plenty mentioned above, You could also browse the Things to Do tips section in the link in my signature for more ideas

Good Luck and Happy Safe Trekking
Rob

Re drinking (untreated) water.
Of course it's at everyone's own discretion. Not a recommendation, just my own experience, and my own judgement.
Of course, I'd never ever do that in Kathmandu.

Pleased to hear that this wasn’t a recommendation Fieldgate – But I Really do think that both you and your wife were Incredibly Lucky – There is a Lot of information available about the hazards of drinking untreated water on Trek in Nepal including this informative piece by The High Altitude Medicine Guide.

There was also another good thread on Here last year

Be safe – That would be my Best Advice !!
Good Luck and Happy Safe Trekking
Rob

into-thin-air,
From the first link:
>Anywhere that trekkers are able to travel these days, people live or travel higher up; all ground water should be assumed to be contaminated.

I, and my wife too, are a living proof that the statement is wrong on its assumption. I'm curious to know where that theory originates from, if there have been made any tests.
I'm not going to argue with you or the authors of the article on this, however, the statement is wrong, I must say. It's just my opinion based on my own experience.
If it was one glass of water, or two, you could say we were lucky. The trek was 16 days and, as I said, we never bought a single bottle of water. We aren't superhuman, we're like all others who trek in the area.

The only way to make EBC trek at around $25/day/person is to walk in from Jiri, and out, carry your own gear. This would take about 26 days minimum. If you have a month, do it, it would be a great adventure. With careful planning you can keep your pack weight under 12 kg or so.

If you want to fly out, add about $120 each for the flight, and life in KTM is also likely to be more expensive for those four days you thus "saved".

Fieldgate
The Beauty of forums such as this is that different people can express their own views / experiences and this enables people who post / read the treads to make informed decisions.
Any “Advice” that I offer both on here and in my blog is based on my own experiences in Nepal, These Experiences are based on 8 trips to Nepal over 17 years, They are by No Means definitive but I Hope that by sharing them people avoid falling into some of the pitfalls that can easily happen

On a lighter note, On my 1st trip to Nepal I trekked AC, I often ate boiled potatoes and wasn’t overly fussy about removing all the skin before eating them, I didn’t suffer any stomach problems and thought nothing of this. Then on my second trip I trekked, EBC I noticed how locals were very pedantic about removing All the skin before eating boiled potatoes so I asked a lodge owner why this was, He told me that when the potatoes were planted the lodge owners emptied the toilets and set the seed potatoes in the human waste – Needless to say since then I have also Very Pedantic about removing All the skin before eating them !! – Life is a learning curve and we can’t expect to learn everything in one trip, or even 50 trips !!!!!

I have already expressed my opinion on Drinking water, OK it differs from yours, Not a Problem - Others will come along and give theirs and then the OP can make their own Informed decision.

Best Regards
Rob

Hi all,

Thanks so much for your speedy and varied responses.

Petrus - thanks for your support in suggesting a solution rather than pointing our problems...more from you, man!

Fieldgate - I totally understand the desire to drink Himalayan water. We are Londoners with only the Thames as a point of reference. In your shoes, we may chuck ourselves it!

guide_bhuwan - Thanks for the great recommendations. They are now on the list. Particularly loving the sound of mountain biking in Kathmandu valley. You also didn't seem totally shocked by our budget which is really encouraging.

Intothinair - I'll tell you the truth, we lied about out budget ;) We don't intend to be spending a lot on luxuries, we'd rather stay in budget accomodation or homestays so we thought we'd put some feelers out to see just how low we could go. We will probably organise our own permits and TIMs. It sounds relatively easy so I don't see why we wouldn't, which should have a few quid off straight away.

We do however really value having a guide/porter and will be spending out to hire someone. I understand it to be cheaper to hire in Lukla so we would probably save the hundred bucks on a flight for the guide from Kathmandu and chance it on hiring someone from the big hotels. I have seen from your other posts that you prefer to hire a guide in Kathmandu and I do understand the benefits that you have presented but as far as I can see there are no huge drawbacks to doing it this way either. Obviously, please correct me if I'm wrong as I have never done this before and am only going on what I have previously read.

We have a month in Nepal scheduled and although we may extend this by a few days (we are currently booked to fly on Nepali New Years' Eve, whoops!), we will definitely not be doing the Jiri walk-in...this time. ;)

So, the two things that we are fixed on is that we want to hire a porter/guide and we will be doing the 14 day version of the trek so we are able to enjoy some of the other amazing things Nepal has to offer. These are the things we are immovable on. As for the rest, we'd like to keep our trip on a shoe-string but hopefully this will allow us to spread our tourist dollars a little wider rather than just staying in big hotels and using popular tour agencies.

Thanks all!

OP,
I agree with your thinking - hiring a guide/porter in Lukla and doing a 14 day trek. This is considering your budget that is really slim.
The Jiri version doesn't seem viable. Only saving on flights and extending the duration by one week wouldn't make it cheaper. Per day yes, but not totally.

into-thin-air,
I believe the nature does what's needed. Peeled or unpeeled potato must be better when grown naturally fertilised, not in ammonium and superphosphate. As kids we used to bake potato in hot ashes, never washed them, even if sometimes the skin was gritty. In those times they were also grown in earth fertilised with cow dung. The nature takes care of the process and it doesn't make you sick. Today I'd call it ecological, by my own definition. In Nepal they still do it.

The Jiri version doesn't seem viable. Only saving on flights and extending the duration by one week wouldn't make it cheaper. Per day yes, but not totally.

Yes, it will make it totally cheaper also. People tend to forget that when calculating the total cost of a trek they have to consider how much more it costs to live in Kathmandu, not Khumbu, during the "saved" time.

Consider this: total cost for 4 weeks spent trekking, or trekking and KTM: trekking 2 weeks at $25/day flights + 14 nights in a cheap hotel + city food: $350+$240+$280+$350= $1220. 4 weeks in Khumbu at $25/day costs $720$24 for two bus tickets to/from Jiri for a total of $744. Park permit & TIMS costs are the same on both.

So it is definitely much cheaper to trek for a long time than fly, trek, fly and lead a city life for the same amount of time.

Agree with petrus – But I usually do.

I will add that food and accommodation on the route from Jiri to below Lukla where the paths meet is a fraction of the cost of food and accommodation higher up towards EBC, so that will help you achieve your budget – Even if it really isn’t your budget ;-)

Possibly the middle option would be fly one way and walk the other, still above your pretend budget but a lot closer to it – If you do that then, if it were me, because of the recent flight delays that are getting a lot more common, then I would fly in and walk out.

You already know my views on hire to hire out trekking “Staff” so no need to repeat myself there, you also now my views on drinking water – What you probably don’t know is that I will also be trekking EBC at the same time as you, but from Tumlingtar, so I might well see you on the trail and ask you how you got on ;-)

Good Luck and Happy Trekking
Rob

If you are only doing Lukla - EBC - Lukla, then for route finding etc you do not really need a guide or a porter/guide (especially if money is tight). Also if you only get a p/g, the p/g's English, education and experience with westerners will almost certainly be a lot less than that of a full guide, and so the "cultural" etc aspect will most likely be significantly less than would be provided by a good guide, let alone an excellent guide (and not all guides are good, let alone excellent...).

March is in the second "peak season" for trekking (the main peak season is roughly Oct - mid Nov), so there will be relatively fewer guides or p/gs than in quieter periods, but you should still get quite a few hanging round at Lukla airport. If you hire someone at Lukla, and especially if this is not through a good agency (and agencies vary as much as guides and p/gs), then I would urge you to carefully read Rob's (into thin air) tips re hiring guides, porters etc. A bad guide, p/g or porter would at best be a disappointment, at worst an expensive nightmare, a good one would make a huge difference to your trek, and if you are very lucky you could get a real friend, a huge benefit if you were to visit Nepal again (and Nepal can easily become a bit addictive).

New year - should be good, but there seem to be so many NYs in Nepal (as there are so many different groups), even I (having been to Nepal 5 times now) am not sure which is the official, national NY - I think it is in April, but I stand to be corrected.

Hello

Boosids has made her views clear on drinking untreated groundwater but, out of interest, this thread discusses some of the issues.

FWIW, I don't drink untreated groundwater because I think there will always be someone or something higher than me.

scoodly

Given your budget and desire to hire a guide I'd recommend walking in from Jiri, where as Rob says the daily costs are a fraction of higher up. If you do not absolutely have to go as far as Gorak Shep, you can adjust your schedule/budget as you go. You may get views of Everest from Namche. Just a thought.

scoodly
Thanks for posting the link (@14)to the thread where another Very Experienced trekker posted his views on the perils of drinking untreated water on trek – I had missed that one so didn’t contribute.

Anyway, I just hope the OP is till monitoring the thread in the hope of limiting any potential damage done be the suggestion that Is Safe to drink untreated water in Nepal.

Best Regards
Rob

Hi all,

Yes still here Rob, and monitoring with great interest! Cannot express how helpful it is to watch you guys battle this out.

On the subject of drinking untreated water. I don't think this is something that we will make a point of doing. Scoodly is right and this conversation has flagged up some dangers that we would have been previously unaware of. I think we will certainly think twice before doing it. Thanks for your input.

Rob, this "third option you have presented is really interesting and not something we had considered. What's is the walk-out like? Enjoyable? If we are extending our trip by a few days anyway perhaps this would be viable. We're working on the understanding that Nepali New Year is April 14th. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I understand what Petrus is saying and that spending weeks is Kathmandu would bump up our cost of living quite significantly. However we weren't really intending to spend 2 weeks bumming around in the city. We were hoping to be in smaller towns or villages that could facilitate some activity-based fun...rafting, paragliding, biking... Can you recommend how this might fit into our itinerary? Could we walk out directly to somewhere that will cater for this rather than returning to the city? From what I understand Kathmandu isn't really all that in comparison to all the other exciting more localised things that Nepal has to offer.

Boosids

Pleased to see / hear that you are still monitoring your thread and now able to heed the warnings or drinking untreated water !!

I take it by the “3rd Option” you are referring to the Tumlingtar route – As you know, I haven’t trekked this route yet but have had it in mind for several years so am looking forwards to experiencing it.

From your point of view I can see Pro’s as well as Con’s when considering it

Pro’s
It is meant to be a superb trek, This website seams to be a particularly good one for some general info and superb photos
Ending your trek at Tumlingtar you would be within a days bus ride from places like Chitwan and Lumbini

Con’s
We are allowing about 14 days for the trek in, The above site does it in 12, but I like to take my time and experience where I am trekking through – So if you really do consider this route then you would have to extend your timeframe quite dramatically as a ballpark figure of a timescale to Trek Jiri – EBC – Tumlingtar would be about 5 weeks give or take a couple of days – No doubt some people will say that it can be done faster and that is no doubt the case – But whether it could be don Faster and Enjoyably might be a slightly different matter

Also you would still have to go back to Kathmandu to retrieve any surplus gear you left at your hotel there.

Anyway – As you say, Another option ;-)

Good Luck and Happy Healthy Trekking
Rob

Boosids, #17
I'd still add a few comments on drinking (untreated or boiled) water, even at the risk that it makes me feel like I was flogging a dead horse.
1. Since you'll be on a very slim budget I'd thought that using water from the lodges could be a good option for you. It wouldn't cost you a penny
2. Bottled water and all liquids are expensive along the trek as there's no other means of transportation but porters carrying having loads on their backs
3. Water that you can get at the lodges for free will be equally safe as black tea that you'll be drinking (presumably) with your every meal. In case of doubt ask the guides for their opinion.

Which water to drink is the one single point where I don't agree with the regulars here, who otherwise provide exellent advice, that I also thankfully used before my trip to Nepal.
By this post I'm not trying to say that you or anyone should change their mind. This forum is a place for exchange of opinions and experiences between fellow travellers, that in the end allow us to make our own choices.
Enjoy your trek and stay healthy :)

WRT water, just take along a filter setup and filter the local water, or use iodine tablets or a steripen.

Hi

Continuing the tangent and flogging my own dead horse:

last year I ysed a Travel Tap (Aquamira have a similar product in the US) that is a 'fill and drink immediately' micro-purifier and filter. Advantages over the mystifyingly popular Steripen include no wait, no batteries, no bulbs to break, filters non-biological contaminants without the need for an additional pre-filter (extra cost and faff).

At £28 with a 1600L filter capacity it costs 1.75 pence per litre which, I ssume, is much cheaper then a Steripen. It was useful when a landslide blocked the road during a bus ride and the Nepalis would not drink from the nearby stream because it was very muddy (such water does reduce the filter capacity though).

scoodly

scoodly,
I agree, it's good to have a back up, a safety solution.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, we had puryfing tablets with us on EBC trek, just in case, but never used them.
I had a similar situation with landslide in Colombia, when we got stuck for 8 hrs plus the remaining part of the journey. But then the locals turned up with all kinds of temporary remedies, doubling the price of water and drinks.

Hi Fieldgate

I too had a back up, iodine, but if I was using untreated groundwater my back up would be some cyprofloxacin and tinadazole ;-).

If we were near a village, I'm sure the Nepalis would have demonstrated the same entrepreneurship!

scoodly

Alas it seams that Fieldgate wasn’t satisfied with the opinions of us Biased Regulars on the Nepal board regarding the potential pitfalls of drinking untreated water when trekking in Nepal, so continued “Flogging his Dead Horse” by starting a new thread seeking an Unbiased (see post #8) opinion Here
.
Alas this also seams to have Backfired on him as even the “Unbiased” opinion is the same as ours.

Apologies for temporally hijacking the post, and at the risk of being called Rude (Again) I just thought that the Nepal regulars might well be interested ;-)

Best Regards
Rob

scoodly,
I realise I should have been more precise in my post about drinking untreated water.
The water we filled our bottles with every day, came from the kitchens and was recommended by our guide as safe for drinking.
We also used water from streams and untreated, maybe four or five times. Twice where there was a sign "drinking water" and anothere couple of times on high elevation, coming down from Renjo pass and some other place. Generally, in places not close to villages. The water was excellent and I even joked with our guide saying that it would be 4 € a bottle in a European supermarket.
I'm aware that most trekkers wouldn't do it. I used my own judgement, as I did in similar places in the Andes in South America.
I'm not recommending doing it to anyone, but I thought there would be nothing wrong to mention it.
As I said, we never had a stomach problem and we didn't buy a single bottle during the trek.
We also had water purfying tablets with us but never used them.
I was even thinking to myself "why do people buy water when they can have it for free?". That was in Labuche where I saw three porters who had just arrived with big and heavy loads of bottled water.
I was probably too naive in that thinking, as I can see now.

Fieldgate – I really don’t think anyone reading this thread will have any doubt in what it is that you are saying – However, do you understand what it is that the rest of us are saying??
If you can come up with some kind of medical evidence that drinking untreated water is safe, or you can point us to a reputed travel website, or find other regular trekkers that agree then fine – All we, the regular posters are saying is that in our own experiences (Which between us probably amount to 100’s of treks) is that the safest option is Only to drink one of the many options available of treated water.

BTW – From your earlier post #19 re comparing drinking unthreaded water to drinking black tea – The water used to make the tea has been boiled, so this is as safe as buying boiled drinking water.

Best Regards
Rob

Hello

Briefly, Fieldgate you could have been lucky, on another occasion it could be different. Others might strike it unlucky first time and have a trek spoiling infection.

CIWEC state "All water in Nepal must be considered to be contaminated". More information on the link.

While acknowledging "some mountain water might be almost pure", LP's Trekking in Nepal continues "but it is better to disinfect all water".

Kev Reynolds in in his Langtang guide writes "all water in Nepal must be considered suspect".

"The vast majority of diseases that plague the trekker in Nepal are transmitted by water and food contaminated by infected human and animal feces. You should assume all water and uncooked foods in Nepal are contaminated". This by Stephen Bezruchka in Trekking Nepal (2011), he is a long time trekker and climber who is a practising doctor and lecturer in Public health.

I can't claim a comprehensive review of the literature but did not find any reference to groundwater, however high, being safe.

scoodly

Hi there,

here is a trekking organisation, I´ve had great experience with:

Alpine Adventure Team Pvt. Ltd. More information: www.alpinenepaltrekking.com / info@alpinenepaltrekking.com, Phone: 977-1-4258723

My good friend and favourite Guide is called Nir Bahadur Lama. He is a very spiritual character. At the same time he loves singing and dancing and he has got a good sense of humor. Whereever we went, people loved him and he was a door-opener to many special Nepal-insider experiences. His direct contact: niralama@yahoo.com

He will do a good price for you and he will organise permits ... + you will spend an unforgetable time! If you have special wishes, he will be in, and if you tell him: you decide, he will as well!

Say hello to Nepal and all its people!!

basiclife