Death of the Sociable Traveller

Where have all the nice guys/ girls gone?

My guess is technology has destroyed the need/ will to communicate with fellow travellers. Landing in amazing places only to stress about reception bars on your Blackberry phone or twine about lack of broadband. Many young people have just turned into self-consumed whining twats, with little interest in the people and the countries they visit (never mind other people). They are just there to add it to a whole list of previous countries which can be bragged about on their return home!
STONE FACES I call them. You say hello (internationally recognised greeting) and they work overtime to blank you out. YES, I totally understand that English may not be their own language, but a second one and may fear awkward speaking English conversation? Saying that if I get bonjour, I would return bonjour!
Got knows how their mum in Connecticut USA (or anywhere) is going to save them from drowning off the beach in Thailand via their Blackberry phone when I am watching it all unfold for the miserable sod just after blanking me moments before on the beach???
Going off travel quite bit because of this reason. It cost $0.00 to be nice to another person, either from the country itself of another foreigner.
Peace.

....another problem, Billy, is that you get labelled as an old complaining fart, out of touch with reality and a luddite.
My answer is to understand that this sub species has emerged temporarily and let them be.....the loss is theirs, we should know better than to fret about it and be compassionate instead...or at least ignore them back!

I echo some of the above sentiments having been amazed at the ignorance of many such travellers" as they spend a 20-hour bus journey through countryside alive with excitement, with their nose firmly stuck in a pulp novel, only looking up as the bus draws into its destination. They then immediately pull out their infernal mobile to check for a signal as they push their way through the smiling hordes that surround the newly-arrived transport. I have given up attempting conversation with such children (they mainly seem to consist of 18 to 22 year old, vegetarian passport-stamp collectors with an urgency to achieve something in their private little world) as their disdainful look when dismissing the silly old fart before them riles.

Worldwide I see them, yet am consoled by the certainty that, within 10 years, they will have metamorphosised into married, frustrated, job-stuck nobodies in the mindless metropolises, holding down a high mortgage and struggling to understand unruly kids of their own.

Keep on truckin' you wrinklies !!!

Dave

I live in one of China's busiest tourist sites....heaven (Yangshuo)....but some tourists....wow...I really wonder why they bother coming. I now have a business in a busy tourist street in the small town of Xingping nearby so naturally I get to meet some fantastic, wonderful, interesting people both young & old. But I never ever bother saying hello to anyone passing me on the street unless they speak to me. Let me tell you, older single travelling males R about the worst. I am completely invisable even if there is no-one else around. Now it's not easy to miss me :) Having been here in this area for some years I am immune to it all. I have watched in amazment as they march down the street looking at nothing. The elderly locals are very visiable & they would be delighted if someone took more notice of them other than point a camera at them. It often seems to me that taking photos of everything is more important than anything else.

...while we are having a whinge - please tell me the answer to two irritants that push polite human interreaction aside in travelling ;
Pushing in front of you because they have a camera...
Ignoring your waiting long times in queues because someone has just rung up...

Great for patience practice, of course, but the fellowship of the road seems to be dying.......

As you seem to feel the need to post this again (having put it up in answer to another thread) I'll reiterate:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where have all the nice guys gone? - gone to flowers, every one
(Sorry, I just couldn't resist that!)

But I don't really understand what you're complaining about, Billy. I meet really nice people everywhere I go. And I travel a lot. Perhaps you've upgraded to hotels? They're not the places to meet friendly people. To me, hotels are like prison cells.
At my last hostel, in Kashgar, I took about eight people off to a restaurant one evening. Only had to ask two and the rest all asked if they could come too. It was a real United Nations of an evening and we had a whole heap of fun.
Meet plenty of nice locals, too. Rickshaw drivers even took me home to meet their families in both India and Pakistan. I have a Chinese friend coming to visit in January.
I've just said goodbye to a guy from Singapore (met iin Turkey two years ago) plus an Austrian I met and travelled for a week with in Sudan. Standing invitations to visit them any time.

Perhaps you're going to the wrong countries? Thailand wouldn't cut it for me.

I tend to agree with go_2 (which I often do).
But, there are certain things that annoy me with younger travellers, and that happens quite often.
There are too many who are selfish and inconsiderate. Particularly, when travelling on busses I see them, with their iPods on, taking up two seats, and putting their feet up on the headrest of the seat in front of them. They ignore other passengers and free the other seat only when asked, even though they should see the buss is getting full.

But, generally, most of them are nice and polite. Many times I did tours and trekked in groups of young people, where I was the only person in the age of their parents. We always seem to get along very well, find interesting subject to talk about and do stuff together.
Probably, having children myself in that age helps.

Wow, thanks guys....good to see you all have responded to my thread! Where were you in Cambodia and Malaysia recently, we all could have had lots of beer together and then checked out the country on Google Maps on my new Blackberry (ha ha)???
Many truths. One being I HAVE upgraded to flashpacker due to my wife and boy travelling with me. Who are afraid of illness and deprivation and quite frankly a pool is a nice addition to cool down your blood after a hot day!
Spent some time on really nice road trips over the years, meeting wonderful people, some of the most "human" and humble people.
Like I said before, seems like techno-heads or aging pedophiles make up the bulk of travellers these days.
Many Asian young people even though keen on gadgets seem more respectful of others (if they can cut down on the photos a bit).
Ahh....! Before I finish my rant. Did I mension "big country", "small country" mentality? Has anybody noticed high population countries seem to "turn out" VERY pushing people, whilst low population countries tend to turn out more pleasant human beings?? (its probably just another crazy delusion? :-))

Take care fellow travellers and thanks for input.

Truthfully, life is too short and too full of fun for me to get worked up over why other people aren't living the way I see as ideal. Times change and although I don't like or agree with much of it, I see no reason to give it so much energy.
Let it be.

technoheads and aging pedophiles+ - yep! Thailand to a +t.
Add that to hotels instead of hostels - you're in the wrong place, mate., twice over.

It is comforting to know that others are bothered by this behaviour by so many. I actually meet far more interesting and congenial people when I travel than at home. In Toronto, it is nearly a crime to say hello or even smile at others. I see people look the other way and finger their electronic masturbation tools to avoid contact with a fellow human. The o/p is right about some trvlrs. So many flock to a site and actually jump in front of some iconic site to be photographed and turn as fast as possible away and leave once that is complete. I cannot imagine what content they must be looking at that is so important. I suspect it is brainless as so many of them are shallow enough that they could not deal with more than bumper sticker level material. This is the stupidification of the population.

Did you ever listen to "Idiot Wind" by Bob Dylan?

It is about exactly this "stupidification" - and written in the 60's!

Finishes with - "It's a wonder we can even feed ourselves!"

So, Billythefish, I guess your comment that "techno-heads or aging pedophiles make up the bulk of travellers these days" would also include most of the people on this site!! Sheesh!!

With insane generalities like that, I can understand people not wanting to get too close to you!

If you attempt to drag "most people on this site" to support your argument somehow, and use emotive cliched terms like "insane generalities" all you do is add unpleasantness unnecessarily to this discussion.

Why not work out your anger harmlessly elsewhere? Maybe read the first line of this topic again and be a nice guy...?

Sorry to offend you, Tomkat. Just telling it like it is.

I made no reference myself to anybody on this site being a techno-head of a pedophile for that matter.
My reference with through my travels and the people I have witnessed there! If to make friends abroad I need to chat about where to get hold of an eight year old child for sex. Then I would rather have a lonely holiday there!
I chat about travel, routes to destinations, costs, the nature of local people there.
I DON'T discuss computer "apps", facebook or other items in the modern world I would rather avoid until my return home.
Nationalities that I "generalise" as be pleasant people to chat to? Kiwis, Canadians, Dutch, some Scandinavian people, some Eastern Europeans. But don't hold me to this assumption as you get good and bad from everywhere!

Not quite sure what you get up to on holiday pmaclell177 ???

...a wee bit hurt you don't include aussies in the pleasant people category, Billy .

Billy...you said "techno-heads or aging pedophiles make up the bulk of travellers these days". I am pretty certain that is not correct. Not sure why you said that.

II certainly don't include myself in that crowd and I always thought most travellers were like me. At least that is what I found when travelling. Maybe you see something I don't, but I find it easy to meet people while travelling -- guess I just don't judge them.

Did I say I love Ozzies? lol. No offence mate.
Yes I really should not judge anybody, as much as they never judge me!

Billythefish Re post 7, what an absolutely stupid statement to make. As you mention Cambodia and Malaysia I presume you are directing your comments at visitors to South East Asian countries. As a senior traveller I have visited these countries many times and along with the vast majority of tourists I keep going back to experience the unique cultures, scenery, beaches, magnificent food and above all the lovely people. I am sure I have been there many many times more than you and I can honestly say I have never come across anything resembling pedophilic behaviour. Of course if you looked hard enough you would find it but to state "techno heads or ageing pedophiles make up the bulk of travellers these days" is nothing short of stupid.
And go-2 for a supposedly intelligent and mature poster your support of this fool in this statement is very disappointing.

'support'? Whatever do you mean? After all I'd said above the last posting, too? I'd hate anyone to think I supported this point of view.

"Techno heads and aging pedophiles -yep! thailand to a T" Well I read this as support for his statement. If I have misinterpreted it you may care to explain what you meant.

I feel sorry for the young stone-faced technophiles, they labour under the terrible burden of trying to maintain their image as the most amazing child who ever walked the planet. Yet the subconcious doubts are creeping in - would the most amazing child only be getting mediocre grades in Film Studies and be working part-time as a store clerk? To assuage doubts they go travelling, but then they find out the world is jam-packed with people who don't recognize how amazing they are, but just treat them as some kind of - shudder - ordinary person. It is only by constantly updating their Facebook page for the benefit of their Facebook friends that they can feel reassured of their amazing status.

Hmmmm....interesting insight here. Autobiographical?

I'd be honoured! :>))

technoheads and aging pedophiles - yep! Thailand to a t.

Thanks so much for making my life easier with your generalization. Maybe we can come up with an award for you.

I just discovered this thread -- very interesting subject. When I stay in hostels, I always find lots of friendly people to talk to or go places with, and I haven't seen very many glued to their electronic gizmos. I had a problem when I stayed at hotels or guesthouses, though. The friendliest in my experience are the Ozzies and from some of the northern European countries.

Thailand can be frustrating especially the middle aged guys who think because they can buy a young Thai girl that makes them attractive to very young women. Worse, are the out right pedophiles.
Its disgusting.
But I think most people do not fall into that mode, its just they're the ones that stand out.
As far as young people hooked on the machines and electronics, have you seen the movie Zeitgiest?
At the end he points out how people are so distracted it keep them from thinking.

This thread has really infuriated me, especially as I continue to receive new messages. I am particularly referring to the comment by Billythefish saying “techno-heads or aging pedophiles make up the bulk of travellers these days”

First let me say that I am the father of three girls and the grandfather of one girl, so I am incensed at the thought of anyone harming a child. In fact, I think that anyone who would deliberately harm a child is less than human (i.e. does not meet the definition of a higher form of animal life). However, as my wife is not much of a traveller, I do travel alone on many occasions. And I guess, with all the stigma this web site has to offer!!

First of all, I don't know how so many people can read this thread and not be offended by Billythefish's comment! He is referring to YOU AND ME. Despite the support of that position by Tomkat (13) and his admonishment of me, only one other person (napper #19) called out Billythefish. The last positing by ono stating “ most people do not fall into that mode, its just they're the ones that stand out” really got me. Prey tel, how can you look at someone and know they are a pedophile? If you can, I do hope you report them to the police.

Finally, let me illustrate a story that happened to me. I was walking along some street in Bangkok (being a pedophile according to this web site) when I noticed two middle age men walking along holding hands with two young girls. I just could not ignore that as I thought the worst. I decided to follow them so I could find out where they were going and notify the police. Much to my shock, a few blocks along the two men met up with their respective wives and mothers of the little girls they were walking with!! HOW WRONG I WAS!! HOW I COULD HAVE WRECKED SOMEON'S LIFE!!

I never forgot that incident, so when I see posts from people like Billytheblowfish and others I realize there are a lot of stupid, sacrosanct people out there. Hopefully Billy will apologize and hopefully a few others will respond to this thread with some sanity. Finally, if you do know a pedophile, REPORT HIM TO THE POLICE. Don't tarnish the vast majority of us travellers who would never dream of hurting a child.

Well,well....this topic was about anti social behaviour among travellers, mate, not specifically about paedophiles - try to remember that..
Secondly,"I am the father of three girls and the grandfather of one girl, so I am incensed at the thought of anyone harming a child." implies that harm to children only applies to girls .And that one needs to be a parent to be angered at the harm to children - also untrue. Why can't non parents be outraged at child harm too?
Suggest a bigger world view ,mac, a reason why many people travel in the first place and usually a benefit that comes with experiencing other cultures....

......oh and if receiving new messages infuriates you so....there's the "Stop watching Topic" button right below ok?

Tomkat...enough of your nonsense. Stop trying to say I said something I did not.

Hey! This is a site for travelers, and I want to think I can post something without proofreading it ten times to make sure I haven't said anything that'll make the word monkeys howl. I want to know other people's opinions and experiences. I don't want to read arguments full of rage and indignation because somebody posted something you don't like. Why don't you send your angry comments to Fox News? They seem to like that sort of thing.

#26 - I had the same experience during my recent stay in Zambia at a backpacker's hostel. There were many friendly people to talk to. My bf and I met people from all over who shared their travel experiences and offered advice on other places to travel. The hostel was set up to faciliate that kind of comaraderie. I also found the some thing when staying at a backpacker lodge in Durban, South Africa. This was my first experience doing so, and I really enjoyed it. I met people in the communal kitchen and also in the dining area. Generally speaking, travellers love to share their experiences and talk to fellow travellers.

I also saw plenty of people with their head burried in their blackberries and computers, but that is to be expected in this age of technology. To each his own.

Hey Muselin.....you are really out to lunch. Sounds like you are taling about yourself. Why not respond to what I wrote instead of just criticising me (like a typical ......forget it, I don't want to get to that level).

pmaclell177 - name-calling isn't encouraged on TT. In fact, it's positively discouraged and you could find yourself banned for such behaviour.
I'm sure, as a new member, you wouldn't want to lose the benefits that being a site member can bring (which is why i haven't reported you for it - yet!)
Most of us here are happy to agree or disagree with a post above. That's our right. And on the OT branch we like to feel we're mature enough not to behave like spoiled kids.

Wow, what a can of worms that opened people... In my humble opinion, there is a definate 'dumbing down' of people travelling these days. Cultural ignorance, arrogance and a lot of unfriendly people, but these qualities are across the board, having nothing to do with age and it saddens me....
I have met ignorant young people (particularly culturally ignorant) but that has always been the case; give them some leeway for having a lot to learn about life still, set a good example yourself and, where applicable, I feel it's good to kindly speak up sometimes. (Young girls wearing very sexually revealing clothing in culturally sensitive areas or where it's not safe to dress like that, is very uncomfortable for local people and makes problems for all of us girls, regardless of our age!)
However, my greatest sadness comes from ignorant/unfriendly older travellers.
I have lost track of the amount of older people I have passed while walking in the Himalayas, who have almost knocked me out of their way, as they've passed me with eye's glued on their trekking poles, not even seeming to be aware of the view...
I think maybe it's because relative affluence has brought a greater diversity of people out into the world of travel, who wouldn't perhaps in the past have travelled and, with all of the technology that there is now, mobiles, internet EVERYWHERE, the 'fear factor' of travelling has diminished somewhat and it's not as 'big a deal' as it used to be..
But, hey, lets lighten up a bit....there are a LOT of lovely people out there, just getting the most out of their short lives and making the world a better place with their smiles, so let's be a part of them and cut the grumpy buggers some slack, beacuse it takes all types to make the world turn...right?!...haaa

Nice summation ethicalnomad. I agree with every word. Cut the kids some slack and don't be too quick to judge people---that is where we should all be.

...."Hey Muselin.....you are really out to lunch."

- this is maclell being " not too quick to judge people" ??

Aw - we all have our off-days, Tomkat. Let's give the fella a chance (for now) to show he's a real grown-up.

(Mind you, pmaclell, an apology to the poster would be very nice.)

OK Go_to, let me summarize how I saw things here. You may need to read over a post or two.

First, Billythefish laments that people are not friendly anymore. He is entitled to that opinion. I and mosst of the responders do not, and that is fine.

Then, he suggests that most of the people travelling (which I interpreted as meaning me and most other readers of this board) are technoheads and pedophiles ( "techno-heads or aging pedophiles make up the bulk of travellers these days") So I and one other person called him out on this (the pedophile part--I don't care if everyone and their dog carries a laptop).

Since that time, besides one person ( #19) not ONE word about his statement and several people admonishing me for objecting to that. Did you notice the last line in his post #15?? I did too, but let it go thinking someone will call him out on that as well. nothing!!

Now, "I" am being asked to apologize!!!.

I appreciate using this and other sites as I travel throughout the word. But I simply will not tolerate being lumped in with pedophiles. How do others tolerate this?

Your reply at #34 - to muslion. If you don't think that deserves an apology then you've no place here. Especially as you seem to be the only poster who assumed you were being called a paedophile.

Isn't it funny that none of the rest of us did?

No,,I don't think it is funny at all. It gives me the creeps!!! I'll leave it at that for now.

Ok, I'm going to look at these words.

"seems like techno-heads or aging pedophiles make up the bulk of travellers these days."

"Seems like" means appears to be -- not necessarily fact, just appearance -- and "the bulk" just means in very simple terms "most of." He didn't say "everybody."

So, he didn't call us pedophiles, he just said that a whole bunch of people he saw appeared to be pedophiles. I don't think of myself as a member of "the bulk" of travelers. In fact, I think this site is basically populated by "nonbulk" travelers.

I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't using a bit of exaggeration when he said "the bulk of". I know I exaggerate -- if I walk into my classroom and several students are wearing red I might say "How come everybody's wearing red today?" even if most of the class isn't.

..as a "nonbulk" traveller , I think we have exposed some fascinating traits here.....and the contributor most fascinating, the one who "doth protest too much" thereby revealing the probable "skeletons in his closet", the one who has been irresistible to taunt - but only in the hope he may see the errors of his ways (well ok for a little entertainment too..) isn't seeing it - probably never will sadly........ so I'll just check out of this topic methinks, and thanks to all for the fun.

Musilion, I realize he did not mean everyone—just the bulk (most of) travellers. I realize you and others have comforted yourselves in feeling you are not among the “bulk of travellers”, but of course you are—we all are.

Regarding your analogy, if he had made the insinuation about something like red shirts, who cares. Let me extend your analogy....if after observing one or two of your students, you suggested that you had a classroom “the bulk of whom are thieves”, then that statement would be of concern. Consider that you have an adult class and under similar circumstances, you suggested that “the bulk of them were pedophiles”. I believe you would agree that that is a grave indictment and if challenged on it, you would either 1) qualify the statement, 2) deny you made it 3) apologize for saying it, or 4) substantiate it.

The point I am trying hard to make, and taking quite a beating for it, is that you CANNOT make such a damning statement because it simply is not true and taints, in the worst possible way, the bulk of us travellers. As you well know, statements left unchallenged soon “become fact”, though the statement by Billythefish is so outlandish, I doubt that would happen. And is probably why most people simply ignored it. Nevertheless, as a traveller, and one who abhors the thought of hurting a child, I am greatly offended by Billy's statement.

Tomkat......your very thinly veiled accusations, continued harassment, and parting shot may be your last. I have reported you for harassment.

Just following this bizarre discussion.
Harassment? Geez, gimmie a break.
Can't you people be more sensible?

'Tomkat......your very thinly veiled accusations, continued harassment, and parting shot may be your last. I have reported you for harassment'

Well, it seems the mods don't agree with your assessment - and I don't think most of us here do either.
But, as Tomkat says (in other words) further up. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. We on this branch have enough grandchildren of our own to deal with.

Go_to, or TomKat, whoever you are, you have not added one single thing to of value to this thread. Your constant badgering and insults are very tiring. I believe I now have an idea of what you are.

Wow! Only 38 postings to date and you already know us better than we know ourselves.

You must be some kind of super-shrink.

Where did you get your qualifications? Do they do correspondence courses? I'm sure many of us would be interested in studying with them. Do tell ...

Anyway, back to the subject.

It certainly feels like I used to meet more eccentric, interesting and some probably quite mad people when I was traveling than I do nowadays, but that could be down to me as well. I haven't traveled much by myself for a while. Funny, I stopped travelling for quite a while and after quite a number of years, went off feeling very much the same person that I was when I was a younger traveler...I found to my horror, that in the hostels I had suddenly become this odd middle aged bloke...not really feeling like I was fitting in with all the people 15+ years younger than me.

Regarding gadgets, i do get annoyed traveling with friends that as soon as they get to the hostel, all get their note books out and start posting on facebook or whatever...it's the same with New Years...nowadays, the clock strikes 12, and now everyone spends the next 40 minutes sending texts to everyone around the world.

I look back on the travel I did pre-Internet, and 24/7 news quite fondly....when I went traveling then, you were emmersed in the country you were in, because you had no choice....you couldn't opt out and spend the evening chatting with friends on facebook..most chose to engage with the other people around them....I remember one 5 month trip I did by myself, and think I only spent 2 to 3 days by myself the whole time.

I've met all of the above, but fortunately they are in the minority (as far as my travelling encounters go). I feel a mixture of anger with the camera thugs who push people out of the way to get a picture; disgust with tourists treating locals in developing countries as if they are imbeciles; incredulity with those who apparently don't care where they are and take no interest in what's going on around them; and absolute loathing at the whinging of pedophiles (thankfully I've only met two of those).

But the are in the minority of those I meet when travelling.

Well yes, I know I can be the "oldie" in a group,hostel etc. but it's remarkable how well you can fit in to most groups ( generally Europeans are more closed off) if you make a little effort and just be with them. Don't sell short your experience but don't push it on people either - I find people slowly come to respect your experience , even ask for it after a time.
And of course there are irritating aspects of travel,and of course they can get more irritating as your patience lessens ("grumpy " syndrome) but then you get more assertive with age too and can generally put irritators in their place more, often with just a sharp glance.
In short, another lesson learned from travel can be - I'm more adaptable, know the game a bit better now, can cut others a bit more slack now, value friendship more, lose less possessions, travel with less, know the value of rest and so on, mumble ,mumble ,mumble.....

Yeah, you guys seem to have it sussed! I know its so ironic we use the internet to convey such upset of the techno junkies we travel with..LOL
When I used to travel years ago I had days sometimes of not having someone who spoke english to speak to. Also the "chance" of making a phone call from places was totally impossible!!!
Maybe I should carry one of these "mobile blockers" in my pocket and quite happily handout with people as they frantically fumble for a signal with their iphones?? LOL
Cheers