Best to Climb Mount Toubkal - Summer vs. Winter?

hey guys just wanted to see which is more enjoyable trek up mount toubkal in the summer or winter season? i was planning on trekking up mt. toubkal in september and spend between 8-10 days but, would there be snow all the way up the summit and is it scree from bottom to the top of the mountain during summer months? also had a couple of other questions:

1. what is the most reputable and reasonable priced trekking company with guides that are very knowledgable about the trail, weather conditions, can arrange the refugio stays/provide meals, and most of all familar with the mountain and altitude sickness? also, i'll most likely be traveling alone and don't mind joining up with a group trek. and think it would be fun to summit with others but, don't have time to look for trekking partners when i get there so if anybody knows any specific trekking companies/guides in marrekesh or in imil...how much do they charge on average?

2. gear--during winter accents is winter mountaineering experience required and what other equipment is recommended beside helmet/crampons/ice axe? also, during summer accents what gear is recommended besides trekking poles? is a water filter or iodine tabs needed and are there available water sources to purify along the trail up the mountain??

3. accomadations: reasonable priced/clean hotels in marrekesh and imil but, not hostels that you would recommend? also what is the quickest mode of transportation from marrekesh to imil and back...how much should i expect to pay?

any help or information would be greatly appreciated...

thank you.

Here's what I have on Imlil (not too much) though I go often, and love it - and anytime of the year is splendid. Summer's advantage is that it isn't miserable cold at night and since there wasn't that much snow even in winter, in September it should be completely manageable without heavy gear.

You can see the snow in these pictures ... this is late summer - but the snow was really just gracing the refuge rather than covering it.
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/85cb9/#TL<BR><BR>here is the whole page
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/c5757/203c8d/<BR><BR>and there are some packing ideas here if you scroll down
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/c5757/edc/<BR><BR>You really don't need a tour guide but if you'd rather - I think TT poster Edith has a good handle on those matters...

Toubkal should be free of snow in September. It isn't a technical climb just a long slog up the scree. But it's not scree all the way. Alot of people go up in winter. It all depends how much snow they've had. Most important thing is to have a sleeping bag and crampons.

It's easy to do without a guide or party. There are always people leaving Imlil. Hotel Soleil is a good place to get to know other hikers.

I've only been as far as Sidi Chamarouch but in September the refuge, which most people stay at before going to the summit, could be busy.

I don't know this person, but she's a blogger who has climbed Toubkal twice and written about it: Musings from Morocco

She's Peace Corps - they might be good people to climb with if you can find one.

Interesting pictures on the Musings site.

But is it normal for women to hike in Morocco in shorts?

Or is everything allowed if you have "a personal relationship with Jesus Christ"?

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>"a personal relationship with Jesus Christ"? <hr></blockquote>
Perhaps she's a nun - bride of Christ and all that

I have never understood what the Peace corps does.

Do they actually bring peace?

Or do these longlegged blond American girls just go half naked to Morocco to promote the American way of life?

And what does JC have to do with it?

jamal: thanks for posting up your pics and virtualtourist site for info...do you have any recommendations for accomadations/hotels for marrakesh or imil and how much do they usually charge per night? did you carry your own gear or use the horses/donkeys to transport up the mountain?? also, you mentioned to expect cold nights during a summer climb up mount toubkal so did you bring your own sleeping bag and your own water supply? also, did you pre-arrange the refugio or huts stay in imil before the start of the trek up the mountain?

nusnus: so during september there isn't any snow on the mountain...when does the snowfall begin for a snowy accent/descent of mount toubkal? what month did you do the climb and whats the typical time it takes to complete from start to finish? should i expect the scree to be mostly near the summit? i plan on bringing a pair of gaitors and trekking poles...do you think i need a water purifier or iodine tablets to treat for drinking water along the trail? also, how did you book your stay at the Sidi Chamarouch refuge and is there any food for sale up there?

alifbaa: great...thanks for the link to that blog...very helpful info. and lots of pics of the climb up mt. toubkal.

if anyone else has climbed mount toubkal or know of a reputable trekking company/guide either during the summer or winter months please post up here of your experiences and thoughts. any information would be greatly appreciated...

thank you.

I like Le Meridien N'Fis on Ave France - but check out http://www.moroccosavvy.com/ for an extensive list of places in Marrakesh at various prices.

carrying my own gear: it depends. if i stay for a week up in the mountains, i bring my own food (live), changes of clothes, etc. and i've used the donkeys for that. if it's just a day or three - i can make it on what is offered up there. sidi shamharush has the usual small store stuff (coke, laughing cow cheese, processed meat, eggs, bread, coffee) so you don't have to bring anything up. you can arrange for sleeping there, donkey transport, through your hotel in Imlil. If you forget to take care of the sleeping, you can ask the shop owners while in Sidi Shamharush. No bathrooms in any room, you will use a public bathroom. (buy toilet paper) The rooms are absolutely spare, blankets will be found for you if necessary - I always bring my own bedding.

there will be bottled water in sidi shamharush and a makeshift checkpoint between Imlil and Si Shamharush. But I do bring my own.

I've not been up Toubkal but I've talked to enough people who have. Generally, Toubkal is under snow November to May. I was there January. There had been no snow for two weeks but the path above Sidi Chamarouch was icy and I turned back - only a day hike. You needed crampons I think. It all depends on the conditions - they change. South facing slopes can be free of snow, north facing not.

Sidi Chamarouch is just a shrine where pilgrims can stay. Most people go up from Imlil to the main refuge in a day then climb Toubkal from the refuge the next morning and do the descent after that to Imlil. It isn't a difficult climb but the scree, which is after the refuge, is just hard work. Depends what you are used to. I met people who climbed to the refuge from Imlil and back in a day but they were fit. They did it to the refuge in about 5 hours. It would take others longer. Anyway, it's a day hike.

If you stayed at Hotel Soleil you could just keep your room, leave most of your gear there and only take what you need. Alternatively, they will store stuff. But it's very inexpensive.

You can get a very good map for the climb in Imlil.

So far as water goes, carry bottled water (3/4 litres?)You can't be certain with water purifiers if there are goats upstream, for instance. You can buy Coke and tea at Sidi Chamarouch and the guy who looks after the accommodation will cook something. The thing is you just have a good breakfast (I recommend the Soleil for that alone) and take something for lunch. You need to carry food for the refuge as far as I know. There's a bakery and plenty of small shops in Imlil.

No one had problems getting in this January but some people take tents...

Like I said, you meet people at the Soleil in the evening over dinner and get talking. Everybody's doing the same stuff and are really friendly. You can always go up with people if they are interested. Lots of people on the trail anyway. I walked up part the way with the little old man who runs a cafe at Sidi Chamarouch. You get in with people all the time. Hiking in Morocco is like that.

Do a day hike, get the feel of things and go up the next. Everybody's always in too much of a hurry. Otherside hire a guide at the bureau opposite the Soleil. But, really, it's no big deal on your own.

jamal: great site for hotels in morocco!--just what i was looking for so thank you very much for posting this up. did you make arrangements from marrekesh beforehand for your stay in imil or did you just show up and see what was available? i was considering doing this trek in september so do you guys think a heavy fleece or down jacket/thermal underwear at nights are necessary during the summer months or would this be too much?

nusnus: thanks for your input and info. as well...very helpful. i was thinking of the same thing of staying at the base in imil before the start of the climb so did you arrange your stay in imil at marrakesh? thanks for the tip on the water thing as i think its very important to know and bring up the right gear so sounds like water shouldn't be an issue on this climb. i think that's great that you could do this climb solo so i'm glad i have that option too. ideally i would like to experience mt. toubkal during the winter and make a winter accent but, are there any dangers while going up during this season? i understand its not a technical climb but, don't have any winter mountaineering experience w/ crampons/ice axe,etc. does anyone know if there are experienced winter guides that teach mountaineering techniques,etc...as it would be a great opportunity to learn and at a lot lower price than if i were to take a class back at home.

if anyone else has any thoughts or input on which is they're favorite season to climb mount toubkal please feel free and post up here...

thank you.

Imlil has alot of places to stay so no need to book. If you go in winter and it snows, you can't climb. But it isn't Antartica. The snow just hangs around because it's cold. It's pretty obvious that people hike who have never used crampons before because you see photos online with people holding their foot up as if to say "Look at me".

nusnus: during the winter months on mt. toubkal october through december...does the snow pretty much cover the mountain where you have to use crampons from the base to the summit? also, do people use plastic mountaineering boots or just gore-tex lined boots with crampons?? also, is rope travel and/or ice axe necessary on any parts of the climb up/down the mountain???

thank you.

Any old boots plus crampons plus a stick you should be OK. The summit I don't know but tso far as I know there is always snow in winter. Obviously there is snow everywhere after a snowfall but it soon clears up. You weigh it up when you get there.

Is it insanity to want to climb Toubkal in December?

No - plenty of people do it. Is it insanity for you to climb Toubkal in December is a different question the answer to which depends on your experience of climbing in snow & ice

I am from Alberta, Canada, and so do have experience mountaineering. It's good to hear that it's still climbable in dec, I had wondered if weather was an issue. I'll be in Morocco for two weeks, then Egypt to go diving, so don't want to haul my mountain gear all over with me- I guess my next question is which would be a reputable firm to rent gear from (reasonably good gear, that is).
I had also wanted to do it in a single day push, rather than staying on the mountain- maybe after a short trip in the area to acclimatise.
Also, has anyone been mountain biking, I wanted to rent a good bike and see some of the mountains that way, I saw there are some companies doing that but wasn't sure where the best area was. I like techinical, single-track type riding (not road biking so much).

i was also wondering the same thing as getouttheretoo...are there any shops or trekking companies that rent crampons and ice axes in marrakesh, morocco or at imil near the base of toubkal??? it seems like i will be trying to make a summit attempt on the first week of november...will there be snow? so not sure if there's going to be snow up on the mountain during this time period so wanted to make sure if the conditions on the mountain require this type of equipment that there will be a place where i can rent before i go up toubkal. inaddition, i'm trying to avoid having to rent these back home and having to lug these items while traveling on an international flight to morocco. are there guides or local trekking companies that specialize in mountaineering courses in the atlas mountains? if so, how much do they usually charge and costs for rental equipment??

any help or

rhonda: when in december are you planning on attempting a trek up mt. toubkal? i'm leaning towards a winter ascent as well now...early december and trying to find out who and where rents mountaineering equipment such as helmets/crampons/ice axes. if anybody knows of a good and reptuable shop in marrakesh, imil, or some place along the way before getting to the mountain that rents this type of equipment please post up here or feel free and send me a private message.

any help or information would be greatly appreciated...

thank you.

I trekked up Toubkal in Sept, 2001. As someone else said, it's just scree top to bottom. You can rip the descent if you're so inclined.

I have no idea how much snow/ice there is in winter, but there were shops in Imlil that rented telemark gear and advertised alpine guides. It is an easy ascent without any technical challenges so with either crampons and an ice axe (and knowledge of how to self-arrest), or either AT or telemark gear if you're a skier (sharpen those edges), it's a reasonably safe ascent.

The view from the top isn't spectacular, but you are at the top of North Africa in a cool country, so it's worth going.

GLTA.

Update: Summited Mt. Toubkal Dec. 2007!

i went with an organized trekking company called, The Adventure Company based in the UK ( The Adventure Company UK ). they were very helpful in setting up everything and though expensive i thought it was worth every dirham since all accomadations to the huts including Neltner was included, food, and transport to/from Marrakesh to Imil the start of the trek but, most importantly they provided us with two very experienced guides moroccan/berber guides plus met some really great people/climbers on this trip. i didn' have any previous winter mountaineering experience and definitely learned a lot on this trip and gained some valuable experience but, most of all i always felt safe throughout the trek. we started out in imil and trekked to aremd which took about hour or two and there was already snow and ice on the trails all the way up to our first hut stay. it was rather tough walking as you would slip and slide on the icy patches even with my descent backpacking boots. so my big recommendation for gear on this trip would be trekking poles...believe me they come in handy for the descent as well as going uphill above neltner refuge in the surrounding atlas mountains. also, in Imil this where the mules would pickup your extra clothes/gear but, if your doing it solo w/out support then i guess your going to have to really go lightweight or be a strong climber. also, when the snow is too heavy above aremd that porters are used when the mules can't cut through the snow going uphill which happended with our group. i quickly looked around imil and i didn't see any gear shops selling or renting equipment but, there were definitely a lot of guys hanging around asking if you needed guides for mt. toubkal so i'm assuming if you hire locally that they could hook you up w/ the proper equipment but, i'd bet that they be pretty worn and you'd be taking your chances on the mountain with suspect gear and even heard that there are crampons/axe to rent at the refuge but, i wouldn't count on it. i confirmed this with our guides from our group and don't bother trying to rent equipment in marrakesh as there isn't any gear shops or outfitters that i heard about or seen either. i brought my own gear which included: black diamond contact strap crampons w/ my vasque backpacking boots and 65mm black diamond ice axe w/ strap, and black diamond cf trekking poles as well...i was just happy all my gear arrived in one piece as i wore all my important warm clothes on board my 16hr. flight from the U.S.!

we stayed overnight in the very chilly armed house/hut...nice basic clean accomadations w/ cold water shower/squat toliets/good hearty meals, warm heater in the common area, and a friendly cat. here you can purchase bottled water or sodas for about 5-10 dirhams or get boiled water as well. we started out from armed and headed for the neltner refuge built by the french which took about 5 hours of tough walking going uphill through the atlas mtns. with some really beautiful snow capped mountain scenery, not crowded on the trails but, very icy and some sections just a lot of snow and rocks to navigate around.

the neltner refuge definitely was a bustling basecamp for many groups which consisted of british, french, german, and spanish climbers. from the neltner refuge you have 3 options to climb the surrounding highest peaks: mt. toubkal, Ouanakrim, and Ouanoumiss. there are actually two refuges now one supported by the french climbing association and another private refuge next door. here at this refuge there is a huge dinning area, common area w/ fireplace (definitely best place to warm up!), squat toliets w/ wash sinks downstairs, and dorm style rooms that accommodate about 12 people per room. the rooms seemed to be packed so its definitely good to have your guide or make reservations on your own as i hear in the summer people end up sleeping on the floors. the nights were definitely cold as it was below zero outside at nights but, my zero deg. sleeping bag keep me overly toasty. here you can purchase warm cooked meals mostly soup/veggies/couscous/flat bread/spaggetti/oranges/tea and bottled water/sodas/pringles chips/candy bars like snickers (my quick energy fix on the mountain! as i forgot all my goodies back home). everyone from the owner/cooks/staff were very warm and friendly people. although i couldn't communicate with most people at the refuge it was still nice sharing any info and experiences on climbs with whomever i came across hanging out by the fire.

the following morning we strapped on our crampons and all essential clothing/gear like ice axe, day pack w/ about 2-3 liters of water, poles, and barclava to keep out the gusting winds and morning chill. also, don't forget the sunglasses and strong sunscreen as the sunny rays become brutal in the afternoon and on the descent. it was definitely my toughest climb yet as it involved a lot of trekking up hills, traversing along tight ridgelines, and going up and over rocks,etc. basically the summit is not visible until your about 200 meters from it that you can actually see the iron triangle at the top! it took me about four hours to reach the summit and it was definitely rewarding as the views were spectacular and clear all the way around in which you could see algeria and the high atlast mountains in the area so i spent close to an hour up there w/ our group just taking it all in, resting and eating a delicious tuna sandwich which tasted like a steak at the time! going back down the mountain was twice as tough since an old knee injury...strained muscle was acting up again but, i managed to limp back down on andreline and just thinking about that snickers bar i had back at the refuge! it probably took me a little less time than than going up but, it was a lot of fun to glissade down parts of the mountain to save on the legs and time.

the next day we went onto climbing the two other mountains: Ouanakrim, and Ouanoumiss...where the first one was definitely the most challenging meaning very, very steep ascent in thick snow then involved scrambling over huge boulders and rocks that was a rentless uphill. this required taking on/off your crampons. however, my knee injury got the best of me and i wasn't able to summit these mountains so i headed back down the mountain and back to the refuge w/ the 2nd guide while the rest of my team marched onwards to the tops! which was all good as by that time i was already dreaming about chilling out and relaxing in the sahara which was my next destination on my trip!

anyways, i thought it was invaluable to travel w/ an experienced crew and guides as i learned a lot about mountaineering like self arrest techniques, walking w/ crampons & ice axes, proper hydration, and taking up the proper equipment/gear...like blowing back the water in your camelbak tube inorder to prevent it from freezing on you! also, i came across many groups and individuals that did this trek on their own but, its definitely not easy route finding as there are no trail markers on the routes as i saw those doing it on their own would mirror or follow the organized groups on their treks starting out and breaking trail every morning. also, if something were to happen on the mountains doing it on your own would be very difficult for those to get any sort of help. i think with proper acclimation, gear, and training that someone whose interested in doing a 4,000 meter peak to go for it and enjoy all aspects of the atlas mtns. its not antartica or everest but, you can do it safely, have a good time, and be prepared or you can take your chances and roll the dices depending on your mountaineering experience.

if anyone has any questions or needs any additional info. feel free and hit me up w/ a private message or post up here and i'll try to help you out as best i can...goodluck to those all going up...Shukran!