A linguistic slur?

The italian expression for a gatecrasher - particularly where avoiding making a payment is involved, such as at a concert, or even on a bus or train - is "fare il portoghese". This sounds like the Portuguese have earned a bad reputation among Italians - can anyone advise a derivation for this apparent slur on their european neighbours?

Interesting. Does sound like a slur, but if Italian Wikipedia is to be believed refers to a historical event in Rome when an 18th century Portuguese ambassador invited all the Portuguese living in the city to a free concert, but the event was overrun by Italians who got in by claiming they were "Portuguese." Therefore, no disrespect of the Portuguese is actually intended.

Perhaps that is so, but the change in focus might now be a slur to the Portuguese.

In the US, an Indian giver is one who gives something only to take it back. Most people believe this is some negative behavior of the Indians. Actually, it is the US national governments deplorable history of interacting with the Native Americans and breaking almost or all of the treaties ever made with them.

OP
Since we're on the subject and you claim to be from the UK, how did the Welsh get the bad rep when it comes to "Welshing" on a bet?

Perhaps that is so, but the change in focus might now be a slur to the Portuguese.

I don't understand this comment. In what way has "the focus changed"? The story is about gate-crashers, and the phrase continues to be used to describe gate-crashers.

As I said, it sounds like a slur, if you don't know the story behind the phrase. But the choice of nationality was purely accidental, so it's difficult to imagine any Italian-speaking Portuguese taking much offense once they realize.this.

#1 - thanks - it never occurred to me to try Wikipedia. As to welshing, my dictionary states it is 19th century but derivation unknown. However, I believe the original spelling was welch, with the c being substituted by an s in later use by us lazy english who can't spell properly and took the opportunity to poke fun at our neighbours.

Z,

+no disrespect of the Portuguese is actually intended.

I don't understand this comment+

I meant that in the case of the Native Americans, Indian giving wasn't originally a slight on them, but since the origin of the saying got muttled, it now can be seen as a slight. In the same way, it might be seen as a slur against the Portuguese these days if the average Italian doesn't know it's origin.

Mike,

I decided to do a search of my own and according to the following site, your guess seems good.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=welch
1857, racing slang, "to refuse or avoid payment of money laid as a bet," probably a disparaging use of the national name Welsh.

it now can be seen as a slight. In the same way, it might be seen as a slur against the Portuguese these days if the average Italian doesn't know it's origin.

Well, clearly only an Italian would be qualified to weigh in on that. At the moment, however, we have no evidence this is the case.

I meant that in the case of the Native Americans, Indian giving wasn't originally a slight on them,

I don't know where you're getting this. Most credible explanations of the origin of the phrase (such as this one, this one, this one, and this one) maintain precisely the opposite--that it was intended as a slight from the very beginning.

Very few websites in Portugal make any comment on the Italian phrase. None took umbrage. The consensus is that "it's not surprising - the Italians think every nationality is inferior"! The historical origin was discussed.

The impression I got was that most Portuguese have never heard that saying.

However, I believe the original spelling was welch, with the c being substituted by an s in later use by us lazy english who can't spell properly and took the opportunity to poke fun at our neighbours.

But Welch is an old spelling for Welsh, still retained in a few titles such as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Welch_Fusiliers

Rather like the traditional racist stereotype the English have for the Scots is mean and miserly, the traditional racist stereotype for the Welsh is dishonesty. This is surely the origin of it. See for example the traditional rhyme "Taffy was a Welshman" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taffy_was_a_Welshman. The English surely expected nothing different from them, given how appallingly badly they treated the Welsh for many centuries.

and the iberian spanish 'to do the swede' (hacer el sueco), i.e. feigning incomprehension, wriggling out of one's committments or simply pretending to be dumb or stupid in face of officialdom. I wonder if any swedes are familiar with this expression... :-)

A Portuguese web talking about the Italian expression Fare il Portoghese:

[semiramis.weblog.com.pt/arquivo/040095.html]

Callidus said on #7: The consensus is that "it's not surprising - the Italians think every nationality is inferior"!

This web doesn't seem to agree with that consensus.

macmaghnusa said on #9: and the iberian spanish 'to do the swede' (hacer el sueco)

The expression is "hacerse el sueco". This is and [article|archivobiblioteca.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/hacerse-el-sueco.pdf] about that expression. As you can see, there are several theories about its origin and not all of them are related with Sweden/the Swedish.

#10 - sorry, I forgot that it was reflexive. correcto. hacerse el sueco. se hizo el sueco. etc. good link too. muchas gracias, de verdad.

1. fare il portoghese does not actually mean to be a gatecrasher (although the expression may have had that meaning in the past); it (currently) means to be a faredodger, which is slightly different.
2. historically, Italians have never thought that 'foreigners are inferior'; actually, Italians have always had (and still have, to a large extent) a HUGE inferiority complex, especially when compared with their richer neighbors (French, Germans). If the Portuguese (which by the way can hardly be defined as 'neighbors', in view of the distance, and also of the fact that the two languages are quite apart from one another, in spite of belonging to the same neolatin group) really think along those lines, well that's bizarre!

Apart, but not that far apart. Closer than Spanish, perhaps. E.g. A minha casa e o meu can. vs Mi casa y mi perro. I'm sure the portuguese/gallegos on here can point out some more similarities.

Some of the cracked.com articles on etymology aren't terribly well researched so take this with a pinch of salt.

http://www.cracked.com/article_16967_8-racist-words-you-use-every-day.html

Rather like the traditional racist stereotype the English have for the Scots is mean and miserly

Have you ever met a Scot? Wow, they don't like to throw money around...

#14--

I wouldn't bet on there being a connection between the Hep Hep Riots and "Hip Hip Hooray". As far as I know, the others, except for picnic, are legit.

Sneaking out is called "filer à l'anglaise" in France (sneaking out the British way). I believe this is called taking French leave in Britain. The British and French share lots of dubious reversed names, such as the famous French letters or capotes anglaises.

Anglaise means 'English' technically, so many millions of Scots and Welsh wouldn't feel alluded to in any way. British is term which sits a little uneasy on some shouldeers. :-)

The French in general are not good at distiguishing between the nationalities of the UK. Anglais covers the waterfront.

Par exemple:

Les ministres anglais désavouent Gordon Brown sur la question de l'avortement
Peu après l’annonce par Gordon Brown, premier ministre anglais, de son désaccord concernant la réduction du délai d’avorter en Grand Bretagne, sept de ses ministres ont pris la position inverse, rejoignant ainsi 200 députés anglais (estimation du Times).

Depuis quand James Gordon Brown est le premier ministre d'Angleterre ?
Gordon Brown, de son vrai nom James Gordon Brown, fut premier ministre d'Angleterre du 27 juin 2007 au 11 mai 2010.

David Cameron, premier ministre d'Angleterre, se trouve au Japon pour une visite officielle.

"un accord a été arraché in extremis au sommet européen qui devait sauver l'Euro, la zone Euro, l'Europe et probablement le monde, et ça n'a pas été sans mal car le méchant Premier ministre anglais David Cameron s'y est opposé sans vergogne, menaçant de poser son veto au point que le Président français a cru bon de faire sortir tout le monde de la pièce où se tenaient les négociations pour une franche explication d'homme à homme, explication où le langage ne fut pas que diplomatique, mais viril, et suite à cette démonstration française, le méchant et perfide Anglais fut vaincu et l'Euro, la zone Euro sauvés."

C'était la naissance de la semaine : le très propulaire premier ministre anglais, David Cameron est de nouveau papa.