Words I wouldn't have thought were of American Indian origin

You know you spend too much time on SiT when you read this, think "I knew that about lagniappe," and then you realize that while you know the etymology of the word, you can't for the life of you remember what a lagniappe is .

(For my fellow ESL'ers: a lagniappe is "a small gift given a customer by a merchant at the time of a purchase; broadly: something given or obtained gratuitously or by way of good measure" (M-W.com).)

lagniappe is specifically a New Orleans word, although I just saw Anonimo using it on Get Stuffed (I think he's from Arkansas, so within the New Orleans catchment area perhaps).

Funny, shilgia.

Tuxedo was the one I just learned about and I didn't think it made a post by itself. So I threw in the other two, and the link to the Bach Chaconne, as lagniappe. You really wouldn't think listening to that that the term arose in Nahuatl.

shilgia, you don't have to be an ESLer not to know what a lagniappe is. I'm a native English speaker and the only word I knew of the three was tuxedo.

I don't know VinnyD - I think tuxedo could be a thread unto itself. How in the world does tuxedo come from American indians?

Griswold Lorillard of the tobacco family first wore what came to be called a tuxedo (before that it was all tails) in 1886 at a club in Tuxedo Park, New York.

There are disputes about the meaning of the place name Tuxedo but everyone agrees it's American Indian.

The Wolf tribe in New York was called in scorn by other Algonquians tuksit: round foot, implying that they easily fell down in surrender. In their region thus came the names Tuxedo and Tuxedo Lake, which were acquired by the Griswold family in payment of a debt. There the family established the exclusive Tuxedo Club, and there in the late 1880s Griswold Lorillard first appeared in a dinner jacket without tails, a tuxedo.

But in another version of the story, p'tuksit was the Algonquian word for "wolf," the animal, perhaps from the shape of its paws. The more authoritative Bright, however, says the tribe's name probably is originally a place name, perhaps Munsee Delaware (Algonquian) p'tuck-sepo "crooked river."

Source

The Wikipedia article on Griswold's father Pierre makes it clear that Griswold's outfit differed from what we would call a tuxedo today.

While it has been reported that Lorillard's son, Griswold Lorillard, introduced the then-unnamed tuxedo to the United States in 1886 at the Tuxedo Club's Autumn Ball, this is now known to be incorrect. While Griswold and his friends did create a stir by wearing unorthodox clothing, their jackets were closer to tailcoats without tails, or what would now be called a mess jacket.

I should say "what some would call a tuxedo today." I was taught that to call a dinner jacket a tuxedo was a vulgarism.

Edited by: Waldorf Astor

I was taught that to call a dinner jacket a tuxedo was a vulgarism.

I'm not sure I understand: were you taught that the word tuxedo was a vulgarism in general, or is there some other kind of jacket for which the word tuxedo is proper?

And a further threadjack, if OP would allow me: Open question to all: on what occasions does one wear a tuxedo and when does one wear white tie in your part of the world?

That's interesting. The things we learn on TT.

Yes, I was taught that the word tuxedo was a vulgarism and that it should be called a dinner jacket.

The Copley Plaza hotel in Boston used to have waltz evenings once a month or so that were white tie (1970s). They were the only non-invitation events that I can think of in my lifetime that were mandatory white tie. I imagine you can see gentlemen wearing white tie at the opening performance of the season of the Metropolitan Opera -- but not at the other performances, in my experience.

I remember reading about some conservative yuppy types during the Reagan administration who, having seen some Spencer Tracy movies probably, thought it would be cute to have a black tie dinner party. They didn't realize that that only makes sense if you have help. Running in and out of the kitchen in black tie and evening gowns doesn't make sense.

I've heard tell of black tie weddings recently (for the guests, I mean) but I don't move in those circles. Weddings in my tradition tend to be in the morning anyway.

I had never heard of tuxedo being a vulgarism, but then I never had any interest in the white tie society.

That's hysterical - running in and out of the kitchen in black ties and evening gowns. I wonder if the women took off their heels when they ran to get the foie gras.