Why is it so difficult to learn the proper accent in multiple languages?

ooh look - when I italicised it, it did a cyrillic cursive version of T!

n_rb: I'm not really thinking of the whanganui/wanganui debate. But rather situations where you get an entire group who don't pronounce it correctly. Eg Otahuhu being pronounced 'oat a hoo'. or Taupo with the same sound as the 'ou' in cloud rather than 'toe'.

Or actually this example - My father is from Whangarei - his mother is quite involved with one of the local marae. And some of them pronounce it 'wonga ray' others aspirate it slightly and others pronounce it with the strong 'f'. The final two are at least a fair concern. But 'wonga' is almost certainly incorrect. How can you tell? Cos when those same people have a reason to pronounce it on a marae or official situation it becomes a 'wh' sound (either of the two ways).

But Maori is pretty easy to spell and pronounce once you know how. Not too many tricks or situations like in English whereby fish is spelled 'ghoti'.

Obviously there's a bloody good reason for it...oral rather than written language etc.

The good reason for it is basically that it hasn't had time to change much since the spelling was fixed. In 1450 or so, English spelling was much more phonetic. The fundamental problem is that the spelling has stayed the same while the pronunciation underwent some major changes. If Maori changed between 1450 and 1850 as English did, none of that would have affected how phonetic the spelling was.

And the ghoti thing is silly. No English words have initial gh pronounced as f. None has final th pronounced as sh.

Billy, if you keep up with Bulgarian I'm afraid that you'll learn that spelling words properly is generally a minor problem in learning a language.

I thought the convention with Polynesian family language spelling was that each vowel was a separate syllable - no dipthongs (except by default when speaking quickly)

So, if they have been transcribed correctly, Maori would be more like Ma-o-ri and Taupo like Ta-u-po when spoken slowly.

Which, to me, would come out a bit like "Mowri" and "Topo" when uttered quickly.

In much the same way that each consonant has its weight in classic well-spoken Scots though they might disappear when spoken quickly.

I've mentioned before that "wh" and "f" or "ph" sounds are interchangable in North East Scots Doric, which was more widespread in the 19th C which leads me to guess that NZ placenames were written down by Scots, or at least people with an ear for aspirates.

Also the long "a" as in "wash" is still typical of Northern Scots. My friend Jan is known as "Jon" (to my ears) by her Invernessian friends.

Hence the spelling of Whangerei, or Wagga Wagga for that matter. How do they pronounce Walla Walla, Washington in the US?

Edited by: n_rb

There's debate about Maori having dipthongs. Some say there is, others say no. bit here which I admit I googled because I couldn't remember either if it was a straight yes/no answer. Maori is certainly one which could (should?) be said maaori which as you say are two distinct vowel sounds. Maori Language Commission notes that failure to recognise the vowel length in some instance was one downfall.

I'm almost certain that the Scots were key in the translation of spoken Maori into text, yes.

And I wasn't talking about whether there's potential debate about the correct pronunciation and therefore the spelling from that. Other than potentially not recognising if a word should have a macron over a letter. I was saying that the hard part about writing a Maori word (other than potentially not recognising the vowel) is when someone is told an incorrect pronuncation. As in 'Oat a hoo' rather than Or tah hoo hoo.

The language wasn't in written form before European settlers. They translated/transcribed (invented...) as they heard them so I still think yes, Maori is easy to spell. Ignoring the annoying fact that a lot of the words are rather long.

How do they pronounce Walla Walla

I always hear it with the a's of father in the first syllables and a schwa in the second.

They should twin with Wagga Wagga.

I've heard Americans rhyme "father" with bother, gather, and rather as I would say them, so I'm none the wiser

Not with the vowel of Wagga Wagga, if the Monty Python people pronounce that correctly (like wag).

In my American father rhymes with bother. Some Americans round the vowel in bother (so that it wouldn't rhyme with father) but most (including me) don't. I would have thought that all Americans give gather the vowel of wag, and that none give father that vowel. Either vowel is possible in rather.

Wagga Wagga is pronounced Wogga Wogga in Australia, and seldom called anything but a single "Wagga" in colloquial speech.

Monty Python is/was a comedy troupe. Thanks to them, when I first went to parties in the UK, my painstakingly located and thoughtfully selected bottles of Brown Brothers varietals were put aside with general loud guffaws about Chateau Chunder while the sophisticated locals got stuck into proper wine like sweet lambrusco and Liebfraumilch. And everyone hilariously called me "Bruce", which was odd in Scotland, where the name was much more popular than in Australia

Бъmu Билu .... That's right.
"T" is "T" when written in capitals. "T" is "m" when written in lower case. And "i" is "u", as opposed to "и".
Every lesson helps.... Thanks.