This must have been convered before, but:

Re 13. Just wanted to say that I first came across "WASP" in a description of Sex and the City's Charlotte, and she is the only person that sprung to mind as I read this thread. I wouldn't use it to describe myself, even though it would be fairly accurate. "English" or "British" just seems more appropriate, especially as, like many Britons, I'm not just Anglo-Saxon. I've never heard it in UK speech, in fact I only place I see it now is in those trendy women's magazines which are obsessed with celebrities and fashion. (There's nothing else to read in the staffroom, okay).

Yep...sure you only read them in the staffroom
like I only read them in the gym......
Actually, i do only read them in the gym. But I go to the gym 5 times a week...

I never would have picked waspishly as relating to the insect. learn something every day.

i object to any label that attempts to lump an entire group of people together based on their race/religion/background. WASP is one of these labels. thus, to me it is by definition derogatory.

i also object to WASP because so many people so often ignorantly and incorrectly label non-anglo saxon europeans as anglo-saxon. my feeling is that if you insist on pigeon-holing someone, at least get them in the right pigeon-hole.

the 'princess' part of JAP renders that acronym instantly snide. i don't see how it could ever be used in a neutral way. thus, i don't see how it could NOT be considered derogatory, if only mildly.

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<hr>i object to any label that attempts to lump an entire group of people together based on their race/religion/background. WASP is one of these labels. thus, to me it is by definition derogatory.<hr></blockquote> Do you object to labels such as "Frenchmen"? "Hindus"? "Well-educated city dwellers"?

Sometimes it's quite practical to have labels for groups. The fact that a label lumps a group together doesn't make it derogatory.

i probably didn't express myself very well shilgia. i agree, not all labels are derogatory - it depends on the label itself and the context in which it is used. 'french' just means 'from france'. 'hindu' means 'an adherent of the hindu religion'.

by contrast, i've only ever seen the label WASP used as code for things like 'privileged' or 'old money' or 'wealthy' or 'all-powerful'. i think you'd have a hard time arguing that it has any sort of neutrality. unlike the other examples of labels you give, it isn't a mere descriptor of characteristics. it certainly isn't used or understood in that way, at least.

No one is arguing that WASP is a neutral term but it is one that definitely conveys wealth, power and privilege. As such it is prejudiced. Is it racist -- prejudice has to be backed up by the power to do something about it before it becomes racism in my book.

JAP is certainly a snide term. I forgot to add in my post about Leo Rosten that he usually flags terms considered to be anti-Semitic when he writes about them. There was no such mention for JAP.

Leo Rosten for the uninitiated.

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<hr>prejudice has to be backed up by the power to do something about it before it becomes racism in my book.<hr></blockquote>
I am not rich or powerful, so if I express racial slurs you would give me a pass at being called a racist because I do not have the power to oppress anybody? Gee, thanks, MB. I wonder how many people agree with this idea.

#37 -- I think if you follow the principle I put forward at #10 and call people what they want to be called, or rather don't call them what they don't want to be called, you won't go far wrong.

#36 Well its a fairly common idea in social science. My point is that if you as a powerless individual made a racial slur, you would still be a nasty bigot but sticks and stones....

If you as someone with power to convert your prejudice to policy and action made a racial slur and then followed it up by say ensuring black people couldn't vote or had less access to jobs then you would be a racist.

As nobody is in a position to deny WASPs or JAPs their rights, those slurs may be expressions of prejudice but they are inconsequential.

IMO the discussion about the term JAP expressing Jewish self-hatred is an interpretation too far. If it expresses anything deeper than the Jewsih equivalent of a dumb blond joke it is the stereotypical Jewish father's excessive devotion to his daughter.

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<hr>Well its a fairly common idea in social science.<hr></blockquote>
I do not doubt that it's a common idea in social science!