Nice gesture

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<hr>It definitely doesn't mean 'up yours' in Britain! It means 'good', 'OK'.<hr></blockquote> oh, ok. it means that in australia, too, but it can ALSO have the 'up yours' meaning. i wonder where we picked that up from, if not from you guys.

Standing with your hands on your hips can also be considered rude in Indonesia - an Indonesian friend said it is like saying "I'm better than you". Also giving and taking with your left hand is considered unclean.

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<hr>it is like saying "I'm better than you". <hr></blockquote> yeah. i've found that some indonesians are quick to jump to this conclusion, especially IMO where australians are concerned.

sometimes, as a foreigner in someone else's country, you will cause offence no matter what you do, because some people are eager to be offended. equally - and luckily - there are just as many people who will be forgiving of your faux pas because they can see that you are making an effort to be respectful and you are not being deliberately rude.

Hi Nette

I know what you are saying. I worked as a govt policy adviser in Indonesia and had to be really careful how to word my policy "advice" so it didn't look like I was presuming to tell them what to do just because I was a foreigner! I used to get an Indonesian colleague (who became a good friend) who had lived in Australia to check over my advice just to make sure it didn't sound unintentionally "sombong". I remember I also got excluded from meetings on my area of expertise on a few occasions because, she told me, people would have felt too "malu" to have a frank discussion and esp to show ignorance in front of me so they would have the discussion without me and then decide what questions to ask me based on the discussion. there was always so much second guessing going on that it got quite tiring. I was really lucky to have this colleague to act as a kind of "cultural interpreter" for me!

that does sound exhausting, ibudewi. i worked in indo too, on a documentary for three months, and got daily abuse in the streets from strangers for being australian - all the people i actually MET were lovely, but there was still a massive undercurrent of anti-australianism there. i got pretty tired of trying to tiptoe around the chips on everyone's shoulders.

What year was that, nette? I was there in 1996 so relations were still pretty good, ie, Howard govt had just been elected but hadn't yet had much of a chance to cause much damage to Australia-Asian relations. I think it was more to do with me being Western and just normal INdonesian embarrassment rather than any INdonesia-Australia antipathy.

What do you think the main reasons for the anti-Australianism you experienced were? Was it to do with East Timor, Iraq, something else or a combination, do you think?

Never point with your index finger in Malaysia - it's considered very rude. If you want to point to someone or some place, you use your thumb.

ibudewi: it was 2004 - people were, as always, bitter and humiliated about east timor (and also ill-informed, which is always a bad combo), plus there was all the rage about the 'war on terror'. additionally was a lot of the misogyny that you find around the world - 'all white women are heathen whores' etc. on top of that was the fact that we were based in a poor area of jakarta where white faces were pretty much never seen. i'd get on the angkot and small children would whimper: seriously. just ingrained fear and suspicion of the unknown coupled with anger towards westerners/whites/australians.

it took a lot of effort, and my indonesian wasn't very good, but i think i was able to get some of our immediate neighbours over their prejudices to a certain extent by getting to know them and listening to them. and the people i was actually working with - sweatshop factory workers - were never anything but warm and generous and welcoming.

i think the big city vibe you get all over the world also played a role. the hostility of jakarta was in stark contrast to the warmth i encountered from the people i met in a very remote part of eastern java - they were amazed to see a white person but were incredibly friendly about it. i had a crowd of children build up behind me at the little local market, and when i'd turn around and smile at them they'd all shriek with laughter and run away, until finally they got brave enough to come and say hello. then they all formed a long line to shake my hand! while the older ones rushed home to get their english homework so they could practice it on me. all the old ladies were pissing themselves laughing at me and saying, 'putih! putih! putih!' (which was a nice change from buleh ;-)

In Turkey putting the tips of all your fingers together means something is nice,or so I was told.

I hear ya #12... talk about feeling unwelcome..... I got the distinct impression that that simply walking down the street was an insult to people in Indo. Then again I was mostly wearing a string bikini and snorkeling gear... and Im a 6'2" bloke...(kidding, just do that at home on weekends)

The thumb and index SCUBA "Im OK"signal doesnt mean that in most parts of northern South America... I was asked by a waiter in Venezuela what exactly was wrong with the food when I repeatedly gave him (and most everyone I met) this signal...he lost the plot on the last one.... A guide told me I was suggesting that the people on the receiving end should go somewhere and fornicate with themselves.

You live and learn.