Big disappointment

It is so hard to learn a second language... is that so?

Some languages have very complicated rules with definite article gender and cases. The actual language spoken in an area doesn't always follow the prescribed rules, so I wonder which came first, the spoken language/dialect, or the prescribed language. Learning the prescribed language rules doesn't enable one to be fluent in the language, but learning by being immersed in the language may make one understood without teaching the complicated language rules.

What you said is interesting Kano, you seem to know a lot about language. Are you studying languages? I know a japanese who is a translator , he couldn't speak good English but he is good at translating from Japanese to English. He does Mechanical Engineering translation . For a short while he employed me as a proof reader, that's why I got to know about this.
Yes, you could learn to speak a language without knowing any of the grammar or rules. The latest book by Norman Doidge called "The Tyranny of The Mother Tongue" is interesting but I haven't read the book yet only part of it which was discussed on the language blog. He said our mother tongue occupied the part of the brain for language and the second language compete for space in that area. I think that must be true.
English is my second language. When I first started learning French I found that English was in some ways interfering in my learning process. I tend to pronounce some french words in english because my brain recognise the words in English. It took me sometime to get over to the French side when reading french books.
"If what is said is not what it means then what is supposed to be done remains undone" - some ancient chinese intellectual said that when discussing about meaning in certain words that lead to confusion.
I couldn't find the book "The Tyranny of The Mother Tongue" (Norman Doidge) on Amazon, I wonder where can I buy this book. Any idea folks?

What you said is interesting Kano, you seem to know a lot about language. Are you studying languages?

Thanks, Lapin. No, languages are just a hobby of mine. English is my native language, but I speak fluent German and enough French to get by. I have picked up words & phrases of a few other languages during travel, such as Spanish, Dutch, Polish, Filipino and Japanese. You haven't stated your country in your profile. Are you Japanese? You write very well in English. German has more complicated grammar than English. I studied German at University, so I know the basic rules of grammar, but traveling to German-speaking countries has been the best way to learn to speak it. The last time I entered Germany, customs assumed I was German and asked how long I had spent in the USA. This amused me.

Is language artificial, otherwise why is it so hard to learn a second language, it's man made that's why.

If you start before you are 8, it isn't so hard. My 7-yr old daughter speaks much better Czech than me, despite the grammar books I can consult which she can't even understand.

The problem seems to be more to do with adults losing their skills to learn.

No, Kano I am not japanese. I am malaysian chinese. I had studied japanese language in Tokyo. So you know quite a few languages you been reading about learning languages I think.
I made lots of mistakes when I was studying japanese and french language. Only lately I found out those mistakes when I read about methods of learning languages. Now I have this feeling that all those language schools are not doing a good job because they make lots of mistakes in their teaching methods. I try not to mentally translate when I am reading french but of course it is not always possible. But at least I am aware of the problem now and I think it helps. The other thing is to keep the mind free from tension ,like the mind of a child, a child doesn't feel bad or tense when he makes a mistake , he even laughs and think it's fun. I believe that helps tremendously in language learning. It frees the mind to take in more of what you wish to learn, whereas the adult mind is more on the negative feeling that you should not be making that mistake. it is moving towards the negative side so that doesn't help much. We can discuss more when you reply.
"When the pupil is ready the master appears" (some Zen saying)

I don't see any french master around so I guess I am not ready yet.

I know a japanese who is a translator , he couldn't speak good English but he is good at translating from Japanese to English. He does Mechanical Engineering translation .

When I was working, we occasionally got visiting scientists from other countries. I noticed that Japanese and Koreans often were fluent in written English, including very technical English, but were unable to speak it. They had learned to read & write English, because that's the language of most scientific publications these days, but they had not learned to speak it or to understand native speakers. They could write a paper on molecular biology, but they couldn't order a meal at a restaurant or ask for directions to a bank.

So, even though they knew English, we would need a translator for meetings.

I've had the same experience as Nutrax. When in Japan, we always use translators during interviews and meetings with Japanese colleagues, even though they are highly educated and totally fluent in English when reading or writing, they just won't venture to speak it. I always thought it was a cultural thing (to avoid the shame of making pronunciation mistakes?) but I might be wrong. Japan is the only country where I've seen this thing happening.

This is in a business setting and in an American corporation by the way, not in a scientific one.