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The italian expression for a gatecrasher - particularly where avoiding making a payment is involved, such as at a concert, or even on a bus or train - is "fare il portoghese". This sounds like the Portuguese have earned a bad reputation among Italians - can anyone advise a derivation for this apparent slur on their european neighbours?

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Interesting. Does sound like a slur, but if Italian Wikipedia is to be believed refers to a historical event in Rome when an 18th century Portuguese ambassador invited all the Portuguese living in the city to a free concert, but the event was overrun by Italians who got in by claiming they were "Portuguese." Therefore, no disrespect of the Portuguese is actually intended.

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Perhaps that is so, but the change in focus might now be a slur to the Portuguese.

In the US, an Indian giver is one who gives something only to take it back. Most people believe this is some negative behavior of the Indians. Actually, it is the US national governments deplorable history of interacting with the Native Americans and breaking almost or all of the treaties ever made with them.

OP
Since we're on the subject and you claim to be from the UK, how did the Welsh get the bad rep when it comes to "Welshing" on a bet?

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Perhaps that is so, but the change in focus might now be a slur to the Portuguese.

I don't understand this comment. In what way has "the focus changed"? The story is about gate-crashers, and the phrase continues to be used to describe gate-crashers.

As I said, it sounds like a slur, if you don't know the story behind the phrase. But the choice of nationality was purely accidental, so it's difficult to imagine any Italian-speaking Portuguese taking much offense once they realize.this.

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#1 - thanks - it never occurred to me to try Wikipedia. As to welshing, my dictionary states it is 19th century but derivation unknown. However, I believe the original spelling was welch, with the c being substituted by an s in later use by us lazy english who can't spell properly and took the opportunity to poke fun at our neighbours.

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Z,

+no disrespect of the Portuguese is actually intended.

I don't understand this comment+

I meant that in the case of the Native Americans, Indian giving wasn't originally a slight on them, but since the origin of the saying got muttled, it now can be seen as a slight. In the same way, it might be seen as a slur against the Portuguese these days if the average Italian doesn't know it's origin.

Mike,

I decided to do a search of my own and according to the following site, your guess seems good.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=welch
1857, racing slang, "to refuse or avoid payment of money laid as a bet," probably a disparaging use of the national name Welsh.

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it now can be seen as a slight. In the same way, it might be seen as a slur against the Portuguese these days if the average Italian doesn't know it's origin.

Well, clearly only an Italian would be qualified to weigh in on that. At the moment, however, we have no evidence this is the case.

I meant that in the case of the Native Americans, Indian giving wasn't originally a slight on them,

I don't know where you're getting this. Most credible explanations of the origin of the phrase (such as this one, this one, this one, and this one) maintain precisely the opposite--that it was intended as a slight from the very beginning.

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Very few websites in Portugal make any comment on the Italian phrase. None took umbrage. The consensus is that "it's not surprising - the Italians think every nationality is inferior"! The historical origin was discussed.

The impression I got was that most Portuguese have never heard that saying.

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However, I believe the original spelling was welch, with the c being substituted by an s in later use by us lazy english who can't spell properly and took the opportunity to poke fun at our neighbours.

But Welch is an old spelling for Welsh, still retained in a few titles such as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Welch_Fusiliers

Rather like the traditional racist stereotype the English have for the Scots is mean and miserly, the traditional racist stereotype for the Welsh is dishonesty. This is surely the origin of it. See for example the traditional rhyme "Taffy was a Welshman" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taffy_was_a_Welshman. The English surely expected nothing different from them, given how appallingly badly they treated the Welsh for many centuries.

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and the iberian spanish 'to do the swede' (hacer el sueco), i.e. feigning incomprehension, wriggling out of one's committments or simply pretending to be dumb or stupid in face of officialdom. I wonder if any swedes are familiar with this expression... :-)

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