LAOS or VIETNAM???

Lao is changing fast and some of you guys are living in cloud cuckoo land.It is not the same as it was 10 years ago, not even the same as 4 years ago. Prices shooting up, country being taken over by tourism and Thai, Vietnamese and Chinese business (farms, casinos, factories, plantations, etc). Very disappointed on my last, albeit brief visit en route from Boten China border to Huay Xai Thai border. That was my 7th visit so I have seen a bit and still love the place - it just ain't the same.

In Vn now and I love it. OK the people aren't all smiles and servitude but they are real people trying to make a real living. Away from tourist areas they are just like anywhere else, in fact much more friendly than many countries - does everybody in your country smile all the time and let you sleep in their gardens?.

Biciclown just gets pissed off when people won't let him sleep for free in their fields. They know he has money, how else could he travel and they don't see why he shouldn't pay (or take a hotel like the rest of us),

Rode Ho Chi Minh Highway Hanoi > Saigon in Feb March this year and loved it, Recommend this as your route. Enter Vn at Lao Cai, then ride NW loop to join up with HCM Highway going south.

I rode H1 12 years ago and it was very interesting, but busy in parts. Now it is much busier and I would avoid it if poss, but happy to ride bits of it if no alternative (as I have done for last 4 days).

Choose where you go in Vn and enjoy! This is my 5th visit (7+ months so far) and and intend to explore the Delta area after a bit of beach hopping. I am, after all, a tourist!

Vietnam is developed...Laos is developing...

Since you've been there before...you might tell us whats best....

How hard was it to get all the visas lined up for the "Stans"...and is it worth it...?

Come on Simon, Biciclown is a harmless vagabond, entertaining the world. The least we can do is let such people set up their tent in the corner of the yard. Why are such a negative so and so?

I admire biciclown and what he does. What I don't like is that when he goes to a country and they don't buy into his way of life he then continually curses it. His views carry weight because of what he does and I feel the need to counterbalance that, isn't that fair? He does the same about India. Some of his comments are verging on racism.

Just his back wheel (including Rolhof) costs about 3 years income for the average Vietnamese rural person. Who can blame them for trying to get a few Dong from him for his accommodation. Incidentally it is illegal to stay anywhere in Vn that isn't licensed - perhaps they were just doing him a favour.

Keep on cycling bici, keep on entertaining, keep on posting, we love it, but loosen up on people and their countries that don't buy into your way of life.

So Simon, where is this "almost racist" writing you speak of? I've read his site, and all I see are the exactly the same complaints that I've heard from everyone I know who has cycled in India. That the people are annoying, there are no standards of hygiene and the drivers all try to kill you. Reporting the facts is not racism.

I have only read his posts here and I found some of his comments about India a bit strong (if you prefer that), although I accept that this may be partly due to the language difference.

I would rather not discuss a third party, although happy to discuss the point with him as I have in the past.

Edited by: SimonHill

If you don't want to discuss him, why did you start using him as an example to defend your opinion of Vietnam?

Probably because he was the last person to post above me and I remembered 'duelling' with him a number of times over our different views of India. Then you posted and I retorted, etc, etc.

Big mistake, I should just keep my mouth shut. I apologise to bici for any offence and tomorrow I will do what I came here for that is to ride some more of the roads of Vietnam.

From what I have already seen, tomorrow's ride looks especially nice. The road is new, smooth as silk, wide shoulder, hugs the coast, blue sparkling South China Sea to the left, towering sand dunes to the right and very light traffic. Beats the rain of England.

Oh please, biciclown and Simon, stop discussing this way. The initial question was another one.
And, Vasenca, yes, I've been to both, but that was 7 years ago, and, as been said, things are changing rapidly. So I would prefer to go to Laos, before its too late.
The Visas for the Stans were quite a hassle, and do cost some money. Was it worth? Well, thats another story, we'll soon post. In short: it was in many parts disappointing, especially Kirgistan. Many ugly people, shouting out of cars nasty words, "Ad Kuda" a hundred times a day (where you from?), kids throwing with stones etc etc.
The kind of "well, we've done it once, but we would not go again" . Except Tadjikistan, very hospitable and nice people....But thats another post....

I know it wont make a difference since you've already decided to skip Vietnam, but thought I'd chime in anyway...
Vietnam in my opinion is two countries and not one. Stay in the backpacker zone,NaTrang, HoiAn etc, and you'll most likely-but not necessarily-be harrased, ripped-off or treated like shit. Everywhere else you'll have a blast. People are friendly,hospitable-even though its illegal and they know it, quite the party animals and with their own particular sense of humour.
As for the rides, like the country's geography they vary greatly, from the flat mekong area to the mountainous west and north.

Full report here: www.cyclinginflipflopland.blogspot.com

I'm a bit lazy and still owe entries for Laos, China and Nepal,currently having a blast in India which I find fascinating both cycling and culture wise btw.