LAOS or VIETNAM???

We are currently in Yunnan, after travelling 7 weeks thru the Stans, and 6 weeks in China, mostly Sichuan.
Now we have to decide if we go via Vitnam or Laos to Cambodja and Thailand.
We visited both countries before on lacal transport, so we have been already to Luang Prabang, Vang Vieng, South Laos, and the "southern half " of Vietnam.
Lp guide from 2000 recommends the N1 in Vietnam from Hue down to HCM. But that was 12 years age. Anybody cycled there recently?
The north from Cai La to Saigon is said to be beautiful, also the mekong Delta, and around DaLat.
Laos by cycle is going to be very different from local transport. And we like the people...

We dont want to criss cross from 1 coutry to another.

Any help is appreciated!!
Thanks

Thailand beats both of them hands down

But Laos beats Vietnam, unless you like being ripped off and harassed.

I need to put in a good word for Vietnam.

Last year was the 3rd time there and by far the best. The 1st time by public transport was hard going, as was coming from Laos and the NW of Vietnam.
But after 8 months on the road and coming in from China could not have had a better ending than Vietnam. We cycled Highway 1 and Dalat to HCMC.
We changed our attitude when dealing with them and found it good. Rooms were the best value as was food and colourful people. Go in with a positive attitude smile (or better make the children smile) and pay with small change.
We spent 4 months in SE asia a few years ago and found Thailand and LAos too tame. Laos food was boring at best.

for details
[www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/stan1]

Edited by: onrrbike

You wouldn't go wrong choosing either Laos or Vietnam! Laos is far more laid back, and traffic is easier to negotiate, but much of southern Laos is dull riding unless you detour off the main highway. The people and pace of life in Vietnam are far more energetic. Some visitors have difficulty with Vietnamese people, though I found them nearly always friendly and welcoming. It helps to accept the Vietnamese way of doing things!

I thought HCM to Hue (via Dalat) a great ride, if with a lot of traffic noise, with much culture, sights, and historic places to experience. The northwest and far north have the most spectacular riding. The Mekong Delta even has a hill or two and is interesting culturally.

I've ridden the length of both countries, though south to north. The one in Vietnam from Cambodia to China is at www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/AsiaAgain</a>. A ride in the far north of Vietnam and on to China is at www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/AsianJourney</a>.

An older travelogue of Laos, 2002-03, is at http://arizonahandbook.com/ThaiLao2.htm</a>.

I haven't cycled in Vietnam myself but haven't heard many great first hand reviews by cyclists on the road.
We were in Lao and I must say it was great. In the south turn off the main highway and explore the Konglor cave area, it's beatiful and so relaxed. No traffic, which I think that after china you will appreciate a honking free country.

Check out our route here

http://www.cyclingarchitects.com/route

ride on

i cycled saigon to hanoi.....never again to vietnam.

(almost went back once, but i got better.)
.
laos & thailand are much better for cycling.
less traffic, no freakin' air-horns, nicer natives.
.
you can do northern laos, then across central thighland
to cambodia. there is one border crossing from china
into laos, and perhaps half a dozen from laos into
thailand, so you can avoid the routes you've already taken.
.
nice, hassle-free border crossing into cambodia at o'smach.
i believe the road from there is now paved.

I was in the Mekong Delta over the Christmas break and loved it, mind you I found back roads where I could which made the difference. Being in towns that the tourist had trouble getting to like Go Cong and Tra Vinh was another highlight. I'm going back to the Delta to spend more time there rather than be pressured by itinerary.

http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=1482632

Hey, thanks a lot for the many answers!!
I think we do Laos this time, and Vietnam next time.
Cause there's definatly gonna be a next time for beautiful ,charming China!!

I must chime in here. Go to Laos for the sweet Lao people.
Don't go to Vietnam for the pushy and aggressive Vietnamese.

Me? Well I am presently in Burma. Wonderful people. Hope we can soon cycle easier here.

CAMBODIA!!!
Vietnam was one of the most unfriendly countries I have ever been. I end up sleeping in cemeteries some times, where there was not a rice field.
But if you decide not to go to Cambodia, go to Laos
From Las Vegas, 114,175 kms the biciclown
www.biciclown.com

Lao is changing fast and some of you guys are living in cloud cuckoo land.It is not the same as it was 10 years ago, not even the same as 4 years ago. Prices shooting up, country being taken over by tourism and Thai, Vietnamese and Chinese business (farms, casinos, factories, plantations, etc). Very disappointed on my last, albeit brief visit en route from Boten China border to Huay Xai Thai border. That was my 7th visit so I have seen a bit and still love the place - it just ain't the same.

In Vn now and I love it. OK the people aren't all smiles and servitude but they are real people trying to make a real living. Away from tourist areas they are just like anywhere else, in fact much more friendly than many countries - does everybody in your country smile all the time and let you sleep in their gardens?.

Biciclown just gets pissed off when people won't let him sleep for free in their fields. They know he has money, how else could he travel and they don't see why he shouldn't pay (or take a hotel like the rest of us),

Rode Ho Chi Minh Highway Hanoi > Saigon in Feb March this year and loved it, Recommend this as your route. Enter Vn at Lao Cai, then ride NW loop to join up with HCM Highway going south.

I rode H1 12 years ago and it was very interesting, but busy in parts. Now it is much busier and I would avoid it if poss, but happy to ride bits of it if no alternative (as I have done for last 4 days).

Choose where you go in Vn and enjoy! This is my 5th visit (7+ months so far) and and intend to explore the Delta area after a bit of beach hopping. I am, after all, a tourist!

Vietnam is developed...Laos is developing...

Since you've been there before...you might tell us whats best....

How hard was it to get all the visas lined up for the "Stans"...and is it worth it...?

Come on Simon, Biciclown is a harmless vagabond, entertaining the world. The least we can do is let such people set up their tent in the corner of the yard. Why are such a negative so and so?

I admire biciclown and what he does. What I don't like is that when he goes to a country and they don't buy into his way of life he then continually curses it. His views carry weight because of what he does and I feel the need to counterbalance that, isn't that fair? He does the same about India. Some of his comments are verging on racism.

Just his back wheel (including Rolhof) costs about 3 years income for the average Vietnamese rural person. Who can blame them for trying to get a few Dong from him for his accommodation. Incidentally it is illegal to stay anywhere in Vn that isn't licensed - perhaps they were just doing him a favour.

Keep on cycling bici, keep on entertaining, keep on posting, we love it, but loosen up on people and their countries that don't buy into your way of life.

So Simon, where is this "almost racist" writing you speak of? I've read his site, and all I see are the exactly the same complaints that I've heard from everyone I know who has cycled in India. That the people are annoying, there are no standards of hygiene and the drivers all try to kill you. Reporting the facts is not racism.

I have only read his posts here and I found some of his comments about India a bit strong (if you prefer that), although I accept that this may be partly due to the language difference.

I would rather not discuss a third party, although happy to discuss the point with him as I have in the past.

Edited by: SimonHill

If you don't want to discuss him, why did you start using him as an example to defend your opinion of Vietnam?

Probably because he was the last person to post above me and I remembered 'duelling' with him a number of times over our different views of India. Then you posted and I retorted, etc, etc.

Big mistake, I should just keep my mouth shut. I apologise to bici for any offence and tomorrow I will do what I came here for that is to ride some more of the roads of Vietnam.

From what I have already seen, tomorrow's ride looks especially nice. The road is new, smooth as silk, wide shoulder, hugs the coast, blue sparkling South China Sea to the left, towering sand dunes to the right and very light traffic. Beats the rain of England.

Oh please, biciclown and Simon, stop discussing this way. The initial question was another one.
And, Vasenca, yes, I've been to both, but that was 7 years ago, and, as been said, things are changing rapidly. So I would prefer to go to Laos, before its too late.
The Visas for the Stans were quite a hassle, and do cost some money. Was it worth? Well, thats another story, we'll soon post. In short: it was in many parts disappointing, especially Kirgistan. Many ugly people, shouting out of cars nasty words, "Ad Kuda" a hundred times a day (where you from?), kids throwing with stones etc etc.
The kind of "well, we've done it once, but we would not go again" . Except Tadjikistan, very hospitable and nice people....But thats another post....

I know it wont make a difference since you've already decided to skip Vietnam, but thought I'd chime in anyway...
Vietnam in my opinion is two countries and not one. Stay in the backpacker zone,NaTrang, HoiAn etc, and you'll most likely-but not necessarily-be harrased, ripped-off or treated like shit. Everywhere else you'll have a blast. People are friendly,hospitable-even though its illegal and they know it, quite the party animals and with their own particular sense of humour.
As for the rides, like the country's geography they vary greatly, from the flat mekong area to the mountainous west and north.

Full report here: www.cyclinginflipflopland.blogspot.com

I'm a bit lazy and still owe entries for Laos, China and Nepal,currently having a blast in India which I find fascinating both cycling and culture wise btw.

Do you have a route planned in Lao yet?

From China you will enter at Boten. A short detour to Luang Nam Tha and Muang Sing is worth it, if you think youu will have time. Otherwise I imagine you will head for UdomXai. From there you have a few choices - if you want to go to Luang Prabang there is the standard H13, but I reckon ,most of that road is pretty tedious. An interesting and rarely used route is cycling to Pakbeng on the Mekong and then getting a tourist boat to LP.

A different experience is to cycle on the beautiful little road from UdomXai to Muang Khua on the Nam Ou river, then boat to Nong Khiaw. This trip isn't that cheap as it is mainly a tourist run nowadays, but great scenery. Just riding to Muang Khua with an overnight (leave most stuff in UdomXai) is worth a go. Alternatively you can cycle to Nong Khiaw from UdomXai. From Nong Khiaw tourist boat or cycle to LP or the start of route below.

For me the best route in the area is to get to Nong Khiaw by whatever means and then there is an excellent route along H1 via Vieng Kham and Vieng Thong. It is fairly tough and very remote, but all paved and well worth the effort. When you reackh H 6 you can go to Sam Neaua for the caves at Vieng Xai (Pathet Lao HQ in American War, well worth a visit). Might be best to bus back if you don't want to repeat ride. Then along H 6 to Phonsavan (Plain of Jars and more UXO than you want to see in a lifetime).

From Phonsovan, carry on the wonderful H6 to H13 and on to Vang Vien and Vientianne. Alternatively try the more recently opened road to Paksong. Not ridden that one yet, but someone here did recently. Try seraching for his post.

If you find your visas are running out when you get near Vientianne, you can extend, but I reckon it is better to go to Thailand, then cycle that side of the Mekong. More to see, better towns, better food, etc. You can cross back into Lao at Mukdahan/Savanakhet Bridge (must take a bus!) or carry on to land crossing near Pakse. If you go the Thai way you miss the Khong Lor cave, but that is about all. You get 15 days free entry into Thailand if you have no visa.

In Southern Lao, don't miss the Bolaven Plateau, go all the way out to Attapeu (can bus back if you don't want to repeat, then loop back via Tad Lo for some very refreshing waterfalls and cheap riverside bungalows.

Hope this helps, sorry about the previous time wasting. There may be a few minor errors as I am doing it from memory, but with a map you should be able to work it out. The GT Riders map is best, not easy to get it in Lao, Luang Nam Tha is probably your best bet.

Another thought just in case you change your plans, do you know that you need a visa for Vietnam -they are not available at the border. Also it is time critical - you have to state entry date and if you enter later you lose that time. Sorry if you already knew this.

Do come back and cycle Vietnam on another trip - you can get 3 month visa and there is so much to see and do.

Whatever, enjoy!

Hey Simon! Thanks a lot for the great info. Seems there are a lot more interesting (and in good condition) roads than just going straight from Oudonxay via LP , VV to Vientiane 9as we did by bus last time).
So we will fill up the 30 days of the visa-durance.--------
Yes, we know about the Vietnam Visa-rules, and thats another reason not to go there.-------
Question: when we use the 14-days free Thai-Visa, then enter again Laos, and then apply for a 30 or 60 days Thai-Visa, (eg in Savannahketh) that will work?

You can get as many of the 15 day ones as you like, as long as you leave the country. There is no limit now (there was for a while). These DO NOT affect you getting a normal tourist visa. The normal single entry tourist visa is 60 days.

Just had a thought - the Thais are always cghanging the rules so it is worth checking the Thai branch of TT. Any new changes will be flagged up there.

Edited by: SimonHill

Simon, many of us stuck at our desks are super envious of your wanderings in Vietnam etc. I did the Bolaven Plateau in southern Laos and came away very impressed. Perhaps you could include that and swing by into beautiful Cambodia too.

http://lovethefold.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/so-you-want-to-ride-bolaven-plateau.html
Scroll back several pages for stories.

Ride safe!

Al

Long time I do not come to this forum.
Simon, my friend (even if we never met) I will not be able to pay my Rohloff, neither many of my gear. Friends and sponsors gave it to me.
Some times is better do not talk about things you do not know

p.s. By the way I have 2 Rohloffs just in case 1 broken. That's how much my friends and sponsors love me