Boomers Downsize for Retirement Abroad

Are you under the impression that Panama is a true democracy? LOL
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Do you have a definition of "true democracy", and where do you find it?

Alas, BIll Gates is a notorious cheapskate! I heard some stories about him in Vegas that did not reflect well on him.

Fieldgate, Panama has historically and continues to have, a government in which corruption figures prominently. It has also and continues to have, a good deal of interference from outside sources, primarily the CIA. That didn't change and Panama did not suddenly become a democratic country in 2004, just because they held an election. I wouldn't invest a penny in the country that I wasn't willing to lose.

If the OP is holding on to their home base in the US and plans to rent in Panama, that's fine. You can get out as easily as you got in. If the OP plans to invest some serious money in buying a home however, that, I think, will be a big mistake.

I don't know why people have to be so negative. Panama seems like a fantastic retirement haven, and I think they're going to have a blast. I have no idea if there is political corruption in Panama or not, but it can hardly be worse than the open, outrageous political corruption at all levels we see in the United States. And yet, despite the depressing headlines that assault us here day after day, most peoiple do manage to hold onto their homes and soldier on. I don't know why Panama would be any different.

She already said that she's thinking of keeping their house and renting it out. The only part I don't like about the idea is the thought of storing portable items worth $1K-10K in a garage in a house that is also being used by tenants. If times are getting too difficult, you present the tenants with an irresistible temptation to make some of the items disappear. But maybe I think so because I live in an area with an extremely high crime rate.

Around here a $1K item will be fenced on the black market for 1/10th of its value or less, so your "disappeared" item will end up going in a gas tank or a crack pipe for a fraction of what it's worth to you. An awful example from New Orleans East came after Katrina, when a displaced artist's $100,000 worth of bronze sculptures was disappeared, to be melted down for pennies on the dollar by one of these metal "recycling" centers. Maybe I'm being negative too, but I would not store precious portable items in a rental house unless I knew the tenants very, very well. And, even then, probably I wouldn't, because if something did get lost, there would be the doubt and bad feeling. Just a thought.

But, overall, these quibbles are just that, small quibbles. I don't see why this couldn't be the start of a great experience. Any time you move house, there are little hassles to be ironed out, I don't care if you are just moving across town.

... procrastination has a heavy price...saying you dont' want to part with it cheaply because of its sentimental value is confusing at best

...dump it all & free your spirit

...panama has a lot of pluses for retirement...much more than costa rica

Panama,
The problem is that through mass media we only get the bad news, or anything sensational. Panama got a bad reputation years ago, and it was Noriega. Since then nothing (good) has been reported.
Blame tv.

"I have no idea if there is political corruption in Panama or not, but it can hardly be worse than the open, outrageous political corruption at all levels we see in the United States."

Are you trying to suggest that bribery and corruption at the lower levels is encountered every day by the average American peachfront? That is what I am talking about, not does a major company get a contract to build a bridge or how a Senator wheels and deals to get jobs in his constituency, etc.

I'm talking about corruption at the level where the average person, leading an average life, finds it necessary to deal with corrupt bureaucracy. I doubt there is a country in Central or South America where that does not exist to a greater or lesser degree and Panama is no exception.

Nor are all examples just confined to small bribes or individuals. Take Spain for example. An apparently first world, democratic country. Nevertheless, a law was passed which gave real estate developers the right to claim land from existing owners as part of their development plans. If you do a little Googling you will find all kinds of examples of ex-pats who had bought land and/or a house 10 years ago, who are now being told a street is going to go through where their swimming pool is. That a development of 20 houses is going to be built on the 10 acres they thought they owned but are being told they must sell for peanuts or in some cases for no compensation whatsoever.

When you move to a foreign country, you take with you expectations based on your home country. Those expectations have got a lot of people in a lot of trouble. Panama is just one of the latest in a long line of 'retirement friendly' countries that people flock to. Ask some Americans who retired to Mexico years ago what kinds of things have happened there. You rent out a house you own but can't get the money out of Mexico. Your parent dies leaving you the house they owned and you discover the nightmare involved in trying to sell it and get the money out. The list goes on and on. Some things do get easier or better sometimes but some things do not get better, they get worse.

When you are not a citizen of a country, have not grown up in a country, do not have that same knowledge that you do just by living your life in your home country, you are forced to take many more risks (albeit unknowingly) and are far more at the mercy of others than you are at home. People fail to realize just how prevalent this is in poorer countries and those are always the countries they look at retiring to.

An American who decides (if they could) to retire in Canada or the UK or Australia is not likely to encounter many real surprises that could inpact them financially in a serious way. That statement cannot be made of ANY second or third world country.

I'm not trying to be negative, I'm trying to be realistic. I've lived in other countries and I've seen first hand what kind of trouble people find themselves in simply because it never occurred to them that things could be different in their adopted country. If it can happen to people in an EU country, it can happen anywhere.

Will something bad happen to everyone? No of course not. But if it happens to you and wipes out your retirement nest-egg, what do you do then? Start over? So what I am suggesting is extreme caution, a great deal of research and perhaps most important, spending the money to employ professionals to do what you don't know how to do yourself. You'd be amazed at how many people have bought a house in a foreign country without consulting a lawyer. They leave home and seem to leave their brains behind. I don't think the OP is doing that but the OP is not the only person who may be reading this thread.

Good point, Wayworn. We've seen many nieve gringos suckered into buying property in a foreign country. And, we've seen the results of those poor decisions. Take Boquete, Panama for example. The greedy gringos have displaced the locals by buying up their land for pennies, creating a mini-gringolandia for the rich. I detest that mind-set.

As far as corruption, there is corruption everywhere. There are gringo prices for everything in Central America. Panama is not utopia, but when compared to Nicaragua, it meets our individual needs perfectly.

I am not looking to buy any property. I have a home base in the states that I can return to, if necessary, and I own it, debt free. When we lived in Nicaragua, our monthly expenses combined were $500 or less. We rented a beach front home for $100 a month, electricity was $6 a month, and water was around $2 a month. We raised all of our own food in a tropical garden and took the chicken buses everywhere. We lived simply and comfortably.

That's the type of lifestyle I am looking forward to in Panama. I want total cultural immersion and I want to continue to work with the local schools, like I did in Nicaragua. We taught ESL classes to anyone who could bike to our beach house and I started a college scholarship program for the local youth. Because we were involved in our local community, we formed cherished relationships and became a part of our local community. We were invited to local graduations, birthday parties, weddings, etc. I want to belong, not to stand out or separate myself from my community.

I know the expat ropes and I am no dummy! Like Wayworn says, "Don't invest in foreign property without consulting a lawyer." Better yet, rent for at least a year. You never know, you may change your mind and find out that the expat lifestyle is not for you.

My advice for those considering retiring in a foreign country is to take a gap year and try it out. I called it our 'pretirement' experiment. As a result of our year in Nicaragua, living on a tropical island, we learned so much. Now, we are definitely prepared to make a permanent move with our eyes wide open.

You never know, you may change your mind and find out that the expat lifestyle is not for you.
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Retirement abroad has come up many times on this board. We usually see and talk about only two stages - (1) where to retire?, and (2) we've found a place for retirement and it's a paradise.
I've never seen a topic "we hate this place, the locals and that they don't understand English", or "the expats and expat life sucks".

Good point, Fieldgate. Unfortunately, I've encountered many disgruntled expats who have returned to their home countries after learning that life abroad is challenging.

I've also witnessed a mass migration of expats from Costa Rica into Nicaragua and Panama after they lost their life savings with "The Brothers" , or the pensionado visa requirements changed.

Panama lowered the number of days from 90 days to 30 days, that one can visit. As a result, expats living in Panama as permanent tourists, could no longer just hop the border to have their visas renewed. I think Panama has changed the visa back to 90 days, now. For a while there was a panic among expats that would visit their vacation homes for 90 days, then return to their home countries.

There are numerous things to research before making a permanent move abroad. If one researches thoroughly, expat life can be wonderful. If not, well then, that's when people post on the TT, "Expat life sucks".