Budget help!

I just got into a scary conversation with an experienced traveler friend who predicted my trip (not including airfare) would cost 10,000 USD more than I'd planned. My itinerary is intentionally very open. Can I get a second opinion from folks on how much I'd need in the bank account before leaving? I'd like to work as I travel but I'm uncomfortable with the prospect of taking away job opportunities in countries where they're needed. Not to mention how difficult it is to get jobs while traveling!

My rough (very rough) itinerary:
Sept 2008 to Oct 2008-- Spanish school in Guatemala, school, room and housing are all provided at 170 USD a week. I'll be at the school for 4 weeks.
November to mid December --Backpacking in Guatemala, Nicaragua and Mexico.
mid December - mid March -- Western Europe. the most costly part of the trip. I'll be driving with friends from Paris to Berlin in a rental car for a month of this time. The rest of the time will probably be spent in Spain and perhaps Italy. I have lots of couches to sleep on here so rooming shouldn't be as costly.
mid March to the end of April-- Bosnia, Greece and Turkey, traveling by train
May- mid August-- fly to India, I'll be volunteering with a friends organization for a month. The rest of that time will be spent exploring Asia. I have no plans as of where I'll be.
mid August- fly back home!

Sorry for how very vague that was! It's so tricky to wrap my brain around budget.
thanks for any help!
-Saff

And to clarify-
my budget projection is 17,000. Hers was 27,000!!

This is my ESTIMATE for your costs ON THE ROAD. That means it does not include flights, injections, insurance, etc, etc.

09/08-10/08 - $1000
11/08-12/08 - $2000
12/08-03/09 - $7500
03/09-04/09 - $2000
05/09-08/09 - $4500
09/08-08/09 - $17000 (EST.)

Add another $2000 or so for flights, insurance, etc.
Then add another $1000 for emergencies (Always nice).
And the total comes to about $20,000.

Ofcourse this is with budget-midrange accommodation, etc. And doesn't take couchsurfing into account very much, so you could easily do it for $17,000 if you really wanted. But there's no harm in saving another grand or two, right?

I think your experienced traveler friend just assumed you'd be a wuss and want to stay in 3 star hotels the entire time...

Almost 12 months total. A budget of $17,000. That's around $50 per day average. On the face of it, not enough. However you have some cheap countries you plan to visit, some friends to stay with etc. I think you really need to separate out some of this in order to get a realistic feel for it. I certainly can't tell from what you have written, whether I would think you could do it or not on that amount. There are too many unclear factors in the equation.

What does seem to be clear is that you will be counting your pennies all the time. Is that how you want to travel?
I'd rather travel for 6 months and enjoy myself, than travel for 12 months and just survive. The old saying has a basis in reality. 'Pack half as much as you think you'll need and take twice the money you think you'll need.'

What's your suggestion, Wayworn? 30,000?

Edited by: Saffron_Ro

Well if you had $30k you wouldn't be worrying about this would you. LOL

Unless you can put a realistic number on how many free nights of accommodation you will have and how many nights you will spend in each country and answer for yourself, how 'low will you go' so to speak in terms of what you will willingly do without, I don't think anyone can give you a realistic answer.

Some people will tell you they have travelled around the world on $25 a day. Good for them. The question is would you want to travel the way they did? A realistic average number for RTW travel with a balanced mix of countries re cheap/expensive to travel in, is I think 50 euros ($78 US) a day. That's for basic hostel and grocery store type budget travel.

Now if a third of your time you think you will live for free, then theoretically your $50 average might make it. But if you are in Greece, tired and feeling a bit down (happens to everyone at some point), you may want to splurge on a decent hotel room on a nice beach for 2 weeks of just chilling. Evenings at the local taverna having a few drinks after a great Greek meal. Driving around the island during the day on a rented scooter. Who knows, maybe having a holiday fling with one of those Greek Adonis's everyone talks about. Do you really want to have to tell yourself, 'no, I can't afford to do that.' ?

Saffron_Ro ,

I think it's possible to do this AND enjoy yourself. 50 US$ a day seems like a reasonable average daily budget to me for such a mix of first, second and third-world countries, especially if you have friends to stay with, or are willing to consider couchsurfing in first-world countries.

The rental car for a full month could end up costing you quite a bit. If you really start to run over your planned budget by the time you get to Paris, you could consider hitchhiking to save you the 500-1000$ or so for the rental car and balance things out again.

Train travel in Eastern and S-Eastern Europe should be quite cheap, I would calculate (this is a guess) something like 2-5 US$ per hour of travel.

Wayworn1 - no offence but you are suggesting on just so many threads that people don't have enough budget to enjoy their trip, only to survive it, and therefore they should either stay at home and save or travel for less time. The truth is: You have YOUR expectations for budget and comfort and assume everybody else must have the same. May I ask what your backpacking experience is, what countries you have been travelling in and for what amount of time?

I think it is good that there are different opinions here - people are asking for opinions on budgets and it is useful that there are different points of view. It wouldn't be a useful forum if everyone just said to do it.

Also IMHO the most important thing for me regarding budget is not to come back in debt. One of us has always got into debt with longer trips before and this time we really shouldn't. There is nothing worse than realising a year later (or even 5 years later if you get trapped into consolidating a credit card debt) that you are still paying a bank interest on a trip - it can really taint the memory.

I think a big difference with budget expectations is about activities. If you a person who wants/needs to be doing activities nearly every day than the costs shoot up (even exponentially if you are a real thrill junkie and have to keep pushing yourself to extremes). However, if you are the kind of traveller who aims to try and find that place or those places where you just be and relax, then conversely the costs tumble. We will probably go on about 4 days trekking out of a whole year and have about 200 days living cheaply in shacks on beaches (I hope:)). I am guessing that Wayworn goes the other way. It is horses for courses. And all opinions are valid.

Hitch and spend more time in E. Europe are your great suggestions LuxCharlie? So what you are suggesting is that if the OP can't do what s/he wants to do, that s/he do something cheaper? Why not suggest skipping W. Europe altogether, that would reduce overall costs a lot.

That is entirely my point of the various posts you refer to where I say something like, 'it is better to enjoy 6 months than survive for 12.' What is the point of travel if you can't see and do the things you want to see and do? Travelling cheaper is not equal to travelling with a bigger budget no matter how much budget travellers might want to think so. Sometimes it seems to me that some people are under the impression that just going to a place is all that matters. If an art lover goes to Paris but can't afford the price of a ticket to go into the Louvre, would you say they got the most out of their trip? Use common sense. The better your budget the more you can see and do, it's as simple as that.

I think too many posters think maximum time away from home is the ultimate goal. I think too many posters choose which countries and areas they will visit based on the average daily cost of the country or area. Instead, I suggest that what matters is what you DO each day you are away and that you go to the places that interest you regardless of how little time you can afford to be there. I have no objection to someone choosing to stay in hostels rather than hotels to stretch a budget. I have no objection to someone buying food in a grocery store rather than in restaurants. Those don't affect what you DO with your time. But when you avoid places to save money or spend a lot of your time searching for the cheapest everything to stay within a budget, you are interfering with what you DO. I hope that makes it clear to you LuxCharlie.

As for my backpacking experience LuxCharlie, I am 62 and have been travelling independently for more than 40 odd years. My first long term trip took place in 1971 and with a total of $600 in my pocket and a one way ticket to London. I had no itinerary beyond that first flight and no budget other than the total in my pocket in cash. That trip lasted one year less one week. After several months in W. Europe I crossed the Med and crossed Africa from north to south, ending up in Johannesburg, S. Africa where I got a job as a draughtsman to earn the money to fly home. On arrival back at Toronto airport I had a dime (10 cents) in my pocket. Enough to call my Dad and ask him to come and pick me up. Instead I chose to walk the 10 miles or so home in order to surprise my parents. I still have that dime. That was only my first long trip LuxCharlie. I've been travelling ever since. I've sailed in every ocean but the Antarctic including 3 Atlantic passages, as well as most seas. I've actually backpacked (in the original meaning of the word) in half the deserts of the world as well as most major mountain ranges. I've been shot at, arrested several times and kicked out of a few countries for various amusing (in retrospect) reasons. I don't think anyone would say I haven't been there and done that if that is what you were attempting to suggest by asking what experience of backpacking I had.

What I do know is that as I have had more funds available to travel I have found that it makes a difference. I don't stay only in 5 star hotels but I don't bother with hostels at all anymore. I don't NEED to. There is a seemingly common trend of thought here on the TT that 'backpacking' is an elitist thing. It isn't, it's about necessity.

MC_Deli, while some activities do indeed cost money, I don't think you can simplify to that extent. I am more likely to spend 200 of those days hiking rather than sitting in a beach shack. Hiking generally costs nothing. Spending 200 days in a beach shack would be my idea of a boring nightmare. What takes up budget money other than a room and food will vary depending on the person's interests obviously. If you never want to visit a museum or art gallery, then sure you could get by with a bit less than someone who does. However, if you want to take a cellphone on your travels because you can't imagine life without one, you will spend a whole lot more than I do on phone calls. It is indeed horses for courses. One of these days I'd love to see a thread on just how much some people are spending on phone calls while travelling.

What you spend your money on is up to you but there is a minimum below which your experience will suffer. A hostel and grocery store food is fine as I said but some of the other choices people make because of lack of funds are most definitely detracting from their experiences.

Go where you want to go; stay as long as you need to to see and do what interests you; leave when you are ready to leave, not before; spend as much as you need to spend without throwing money away, to do and see what you want to do and see; go to the next place of interest and repeat the process; continue until either the maximum time available runs out or your money does; go home.

There is NEVER a list of places that you MUST go to on any given trip. Itineraries and budgets blind you to what is happening around you and cause you to miss opportunities that arise. I've heard someone in a bar in the south of France, pass up a space in a VW camper headed to the Running of the Bulls, with the comment, "Oh God, I'd love to go, but I've got a flight to Istanbul to catch from Rome next Wednesday". What a missed opportunity. Istanbul would still be there next year but that opportunity is gone forever.

The greatest attraction of travel is the feeling of freedom it brings. How exactly does having an itinerary and sticking to a budget equate with freedom? What it equates with is bringing your conditioned responses in your home world into your travels. Try travelling with no fixed plan or budget if you really want to experience freedom.

{quote:title=Quote:}One of these days I'd love to see a thread on just how much some people are spending on phone calls while travelling.{quote}

I agree! I only call home once every month using Skype, although after 6 months it was more like every 3 months. Sorry mom! However, I'd guess I averaged $1/day on internet overall.

I certainly appreciate Wayworm's estimate, but I think it might be a bit high for the average young traveler. I don't consider myself a budget traveler by any stretch - the closest I've come to a grocery store on a trip is to stop in for a drink! - but I've never spent $78 a day over a two-week stretch. At that budget, for your trip, I think you'll be able to rent a car every once in a while, get the occasional single room in a hostel, and take in a few activities.

To my mind, the three biggest things affecting cost once you've chosen your destinations is: how fast do you travel? How many activities do you want to do? How often will you be pounding back beer? Quick travel, activities and beer will add up. If not, then hostels will run you $2-$30 pretty much anywhere, you can eat for $10 almost anywhere, and it's a rare museum that will set you back more than 10 bucks.

That said, two final notes. First, wayward is totally right when he says that it's nuts for people to travel halfway around the world on a budget too tight for minor changes. If you're offered a spot in a 4WD to a desolate canyon for $70/day, do you want to turn it down because of money? You've already flown halfway around the world! Second, pre-trip costs are more than you think. It's very easy to spend 6-7k on airfare, insurance, visas, health care and equipment if you're taking in a number of continents, so don't forget that bit.

I think the $17,000 for on the ground costs, assuming a lot of couches in western Europe, is OK. But I think that for it to include flights/insurance/visa/vaccinations is not OK. I think #2's estimate is way, way too low. Flights and other transportation are through the roof now and will likely stay that way this year and next, compared to 2-3 years ago. Visa costs are going up in a lot of countries also--I'd put more of a $5000 cost for this stuff, and that's with careful shopping for flights. So, my total is $22,000. That should allow for decent participation in activities, museum fees, a beer or two here and there, a splurge meal periodically.

Sorry forgot to add: a strategy you might take, assuming this $17,000 is your budget limit, is to follow your plan and do your month in India (you should be OK through that point), then reassess what you've got left. If you're running short, then either go home after India, or limit your time in Asia to fit the remaining budget--you'll have options, not to worry.

"At that budget, for your trip, I think you'll be able to rent a car every once in a while, get the occasional single room in a hostel, and take in a few activities."

Which budget kevincure? The OP's original budget or my $78 per day average? I certainly hope you are not suggesting that a traveller should not expect to be able to rent a car, get a single hostel room or take in any activities. Your comment is just not quite clear as to what you were trying to say. Please clarify at which number you would expect to be able to do those 3 things you mention.

True, Wayworm - I meant on a $78/day budget. That's a bit higher than the budget I've used in the Mideast, Southern Africa, China, SE Asia and the US, and it's been more than sufficient. I only stay in the occasional hostel, never skip a good museum, and have had a rental car something like one day in four over this time. In many countries, traveling with a friend makes rentals and hotels very affordable, but half of these trips have been solo and the budget hasn't been a problem.

Out of interest, the dollar is very weak at the moment. Are people adjusting their estimates to reflect this?

I think that $50 a day, as an average budget, is perfectly suitable for most "young travelers" - who generally want to stay in a dorm with fellow "young travelers" and travel cheaply (with those lovely student discounts we get). But, at the same time, you should always leave a bit of lee-way in your budget to accommodate extra expenses. I mean, if you don't even come across any extra expenses or splurges that really take your fancy, you can splash out on something in the next country you're at, or your next trip, or even back home.

Also, i think that the standards of a 62 year old, compared to the standards of a 18 year old traveler will be entirely different.

Personally, I will be avoiding single rooms where ever possible and only staying in dorms if i can. Not for necessity, just because I want to meet people who are doing the same thing as me. Fellow "young travelers", even if they aren't that young. And I definitely won't be renting cars.

But that doesn't mean that another 62-year-old traveler wouldn't want a single room in a hotel with a rental car outside and half a dozen museum tickets in his hand. So both opinions are equally valid, just aimed at a different demographic. I mean when I'm 62, I won't want to be sharing a room with a bunch of 18-ish kids in a seedy hostel (then again, i personally would love that, but the average 62-year-old wouldn't) and when you're 62 you might as well enjoy the time you have left in comfort. If you can afford to have a more comfortable room and do all those activities a strict budget wouldn't allow, then why not?

What I'm trying to say to all those arguing is, even if you don't agree with someone else's opinion or travel standards, it doesn't make them wrong. Only different.