Munich to Murren in June. Car or Train? Family of four on first trip.

Hello!
My family of four (girls, age 15 and 8) are spending a month in Europe in June. Part of this trip is from Munich to Neuschwanstein for a day, Murren for three days and on to Paris. I seem to be having a difficult time navigating the train systems to determine how much it will cost us compared to renting a car and driving it. The car option will be about $500 if we pick up in Munich on the 15th. Drive it to Hohenschwangau for the evening and then to Interlaken the next day.

June 15th: We need to get from Salzburg to Hohenschwangau this day.
Option 1: (Leave at 10AM) 2 hour train from Salzburg to Munich. 2 hour train to Fussen. Bus to hotel in Hohenschwangau (10 min). Arrive approx. 4PM.
Option 2: 2 hour train to Munich. Rent car. Drive 2 hours to Hohenschwangau.
See the grounds of Neuschwanstein. See lake.
June 16th: See Neuschwanstein early this morning. 9AM opens. 4 hours approx. Done around 2PM. To Interlaken this day.
Option 1: 7 or 8 hour train to Interlaken. Spend the night there. Explore a bit. Eat dinner.
Option 2: Still driving rental car. Drive 4.5 hours to Interlaken. Go through Liechtenstien and stop in Lucerne for lunch by the lake. Drop car in Interlaken. $550. Europcar. Getting to see these places is the main draw to renting a car instead of taking the train.
June 17th: Enjoy Interlaken before we go on to Murren. Drop luggage at hotel.

June 18th: Bike ride to Lauterbrunnen. Traummelbach falls.
June 19th: Breakfast at the top of the Schiltorn. Maybe Jungfrau.
June 20th: Back to Interlaken (1 hours). Take TGV from Interlaken to Paris - 5 hours.

From what I read, that train stops in Bern. We would love to stop and see Bern for a few hours. Maybe eat while we are there. A few questions: 1. Does it stop in Bern? 2. Are there lockers for us to put our packs in at the train station? 3. Can we just get on the next TGV to Paris – is that possible?
Thanks in advance for all the help. It is greatly appreciated!

Check http://www.deutschebahn.com/en/start-en.html for possible stops / connections.

international one-way car rentals usually demand steep charges (easily several hundred Euro), domestic ones however often no or just a small fee. if cost is an issue, this is what I'd consider:

a)pick up car in Salzburg, drive to Füssen, stay, drive to Bregenz (Austria), drop-off car, carry on towards Interlaken by train, eventually doing a stopover in Luzern. be aware of reduced fares for kids. use www.viamichelin.com for roads, pick a scenic route and stop along the way
b)train all the way. for Salzburg-Munich-Füssen, a 'Bavaria-Ticket' (http://www.bahn.de/p_en/view/offers/national/regional/laender-tickets/bavaria-ticket.shtml) will really pay off. own kids below 14y travel free, so it would be a 3-person ticket = 33 Euro for all of you. fully flexible, yet not valid on long-distance trains (IC/EC/ICE/RJ). if you like, do a stopover in Munich (luggage lockers at the station), the ticket includes local transport (bus, tram, underground), too. Füssen to Interlaken is a bother due to the multiple connections required. if you book early, offers start from 39 Euro, www.bahn.com will show details and tell about child fares, too.

consensus on this board is that both Liechtenstein and Interlaken itself are poor choices compared to what else the area has to offer.

I leave the Interlaken-Paris queries to the Swiss experts, yet usually you can just break domestic trips inside Switzerland for a short stopover, and there are almost certainly lockers. imo Basel itself makes a nice break, too, though you won't be able to do both. lowest offers for TGV trains to Paris need to be booked in advance and are not flexible.

Yes- the Bern train station has luggage lockers available. If you wanted to see Bern on a stopover from Interlaaken (about 50 minutes by train) you can buy
a ticket for that portion, then a separate TGV ticket to travel from Bern to Paris ( a
4 hour trip.). The website Loco2.com will give you an idea of the frequency and cost of trains as the timetables do not change much in the summer.
I would drop Liectenstein with the little time you have.
I would also consider Train passes available as trains and buses will get you to all your destinations, thus eliminating the need for a car rental.

Also, you cannot drive a car to Murren. Access is via gondolas and lifts. You can drive to Lauterbrunnen where you would have to leave the car for the ascent via gondola and lift. With a car, Lauterbrunnen or Grindelwald make better bases- far better than Interlaaken.

Eurail's website shows Eurail Selectpass covering train travel in Germany, Switzerland and France for 2 adults and 2 children costs $834 for 6 days during a two- month period when all of you travel together. The pass costs $758 for five days; $974 for eight days. Eurail.com
A supplement is payable for TGV trains, and reservations are required on some trains. Eurail.com

given the whole family could do the complete section Salzburg-Füssen-Interlaken (2days) for just 150 Euro, that would leave approx. 550 Euro for the remaining 3days of a pass. given SNCFs cheap special deals and the surcharge for passholders, chrissiepen will need to do a lot of travelling to make those passes pay off. besides, some connections will be via Bregenz, thus adding Austria to the number of countries travelled. mind you, passes will be 1st, however 2nd is fully sufficient imo.

hopefully some of the Switzerland experts drop by and share their knowledge on SBB Swiss fares.

Yes- it's likely that the best deal will be a combination of discounted SBB Passes, along with what's on offer by Deutsche Bahn and SNCF (France's national train.)
Adding Austria adds $60 to the 5,6 and 8-day Select Pass. When you add up the cost of the Interlaaken to Lucerne roundtrip ride and Interlaaken to Paris- it's clear that Train Passes will really save money. Adding to the complexity of train fares in the itinerary is that the trains between Interlaaken and Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald are privately run. Although Eurail pass holders get a 25 percent discount off the fares, going back and forth between Murren and Lauterbrunnen and Murren and Interlaaken will add up fast for a family of four. That- in addition to the time saved -is why I think basing in Lauterbrunnen is probably the best way to go on this itinerary. Fares on the Bernese Oberland gondolas adds up quickly as well. Some of the SBB (Swiss National) train passes will discount fares to the Schilthorn and the Jungfraujoch.

The true cost of a car rental adds up to more than that $500 rental cost. There's also the cost of gasoline, highway tolls, parking fees and insurance. Trains, are the way to go. You can relax and focus on the beautiful scenery rather than the highway.

All depends on your mountain railway rides in Switzerland.
If you stay at Interlaken and Muerren all the time, the DB supersaver ticket Fuessen - Buchloe - Bern - Interlaken for 117 EUR for the whole family is the cheapest solution.
If you plan to go to places like Schilthorn, Jungfraujoch, First or so, check either the Swiss Half Fare Card or the Swiss Transfer ticket plus Half Fare Card Combi, both with the Family Card.

For the St. Margrethen - Luzern - Interlaken Ost (OW) leg, the Half Fare Card solution would cost CHF 317 (240 plus 77) for the whole family, whereas the Transfer ticket solution would cost 402 CHF (282 plus 120). No stopover allowed at Lucerne with the Transfer ticket, but the transfer ticket is valid via Berne too. If you go straight to Muerren, the transfer ticket is valid up to there.

Interlaken - Basel would cost 60 CHF with the Half Fare Card solution and nothing with the Transfer ticket.
Interlaken - Fribourg - Geneva would cost 71 CHF with the Half Fare Card solution and nothing with the Transfer ticket
For all other trips within Switzerland you would pay half fare for 2 pax.

Open http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html as well as http://www.myswitzerland.com/en-ch/transport-reisen/billette.html and make your maths.
The Bayern ticket may be the cheapest solution for Fuessen resp Ulrichsbrucke - Lindau im Bodensee. In this case, avoid IC trains and add the fare for the Austrian Lindau - St. Margrethen leg. If you have a Swiss Half Fare Card and take the Lindau - Rorschach boat, you get half fare there too.

Seriously, you guys are awesome! I need to sit down tonight and sort through all this and come up with a game plan. Thanks so much! I do have one question. Looking at the Rail Europe passes - do they cover all trains?
There are so many separate train websites and I am not sure what is covered if we get a Rail Europe pass.

Thanks again!!

many thanks for the feedback, glad our remarks proved helpful so far.

I do have one question. Looking at the Rail Europe passes - do they cover all trains?
There are so many separate train websites and I am not sure what is covered if we get a Rail Europe pass.

I'd say it covers 99% of the trains there are. of the remaining, some will give a discount to passholders (as meckerdv indicated), some none. however of the trains 'included', a couple demand a steep surcharge (e.g. Thalys, Eurostar), which will turn these specific trips into bad deals. Eurail used to have a comprehensive chapter on what trains require what fees, yet I either I cannot find it any longer or they pulled it because it left a bad impression. the info is still there, but now you need to sift through the individual train catgories (which you're expected to tell apart...): www.eurail.com/europe-by-train/high-speed-trains

consider sharing with us a rough draft of your overall itinerary, this would make it easier for us to comment. btw, another good source: www.seat61.com/Railpass-and-Eurail-pass-guide.htm

Hi Chrissie,
Because your itinerary includes getting from Interlaaken to Murren (a private train line) and to Lauterbrunnen
and possibly the Schilthorn gondola- the Eurail pass gives a 25 percent discount on
these transport costs. (The ride just from Lauterbrunnen to Murren can cost about10CHF) If you travel to roundtrip to Lucerne from Interlaaken while in Switzerland, and back to Paris by train ( and certainly Liechtenstein, if that is still a consideration) be sure to add up the cost of these fares- they are really costly without some sort of pass be it a Eurail Pass, a Swiss Family Card, or Half-Fare card etc.
The eurail Pass has a supplement of about 25 euros for the Lyria train (TGV )
ride from Switzerland to Paris, whether the ride originates from Interlaaken,
Bern or Basel.

As Nautiker says- until you finalize your itinerary, it's not possible to say what will save you the most money.

Be sure to shop Eurail prices at Eurail.com as sometimes they are less expensive through Eurail.com rather than RailEurope.com.

I don't know if you were aware of the impressive castle called Schloss Thun. It was built in the 1200's and is on Lake Thun between Interlaaken and Bern, about a half-mile walk from the train station at Thun. If you're not absolutely
set on the Bavarian castles- the castles around Salzburg- Hohensalzburg Fortress
(In Salzburg)and Hohenwerfen Castle , where portions of the Sound of Music were filmed( 45 minutes outside Salzburg) could really simplify your itinerary subbing in for the 8-hour roundtrip to Fussen.

Kenko is right: there are tons of very impressive castles (fortresses and palaces) along the Salzburg - Switzerland - Paris itinerary, like (in and around Switzerland only)
Hohenems, Werdenberg, Rapperswil, Sargans, Wartensee, Wartenberg, Meersburg, Arenenberg, Hohenklingen, Munot, Kyburg, Habsburg, Lenzburg, Hallwil, Wildegg, Aarburg, Neu Bechburg, Burgdorf, Jegenstorf, Thun, Oberhofen, Spiez, Laupen, Muenchenwiler, Bulle, Estavayer, Gruyeres, Neuchatel, Grandson, Yverdon, Joux (Pontarlier), Belfort, Besancon, Andelot, Dijon, Saint Bernard, Arcelot, and dozens of others which are private properties and cannot be visited.
But that will not change the fact that Americans usually want to see only Versailles, Neuschwanstein and Chillon, and nothing else!

Thanks for this info! I am pretty sure we will take a train from Interlaken to Bern and hang there for a while then take the TGV on to Paris. Do you think Thun is worth a stop before Bern?

The drive to Interlaken: I wasn't planning on stopping through Liechtenstein, but thought it might be fun to drive through on our way. I really want to see Lucerne. That is the main reason I wanted to take a car instead of train. From what I read, the drive is only 4.5 hours and the train ride is 7 or 8. I wanted to take that time to visit Lucerne.

I am adding a full itinerary to this post. We will be on vacation for a full month and will be getting train passes - maybe select passes for Germany, Austria, Switzerland and France. Now I just have to determine exactly what those passes will cover.

I am so thankful for this forum. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to add your knowledge!

I would first like to say that I am extremely grateful for everyone's input. Thank you so much for adding your knowledge to our trip!

Full disclosure - this is our full itinerary.

It's busy, and we have two kids (15,8) so we need to make sure we get enough sleep. That's why we will spend a night in Interlaken on our way to Murren. We plan to travel with backpacks and be as mobile as possible.

There are four days of major train riding if we don't rent a car. June 13, 15, 16, 20th. I don't think I can handle watching the clock for point to point tickets. If we get a 5 day Eurail Select Pass for Germany, Austria, Switzerland and France it will cost the family $1230. Rail Europe is $1104. Besides cost, is there a big difference in provider?

Europe 2016
June 8-July 7

June 8: JFK to Munich: 8:45PM – 1:30PM on June 9th.
June 9th: Munich
June 10th: Munich

June 11th: Munich
June 12th: Munich
June 13th: Train to Salzburg (2 hours).

June 14th: Bob’s Special Tours – Sound of Music/Hallstatt Tour.

June 15th: Salzburg to Fussen
June 16th: See Neuschwansten. To Interlaken (will be late. Can’t make it to Murren)
June 17th: Murren. Drop luggage at hotel in Murren
June 18th: Murren
June 19th: Murren

June 20th: Back to Interlaken. Interlaken to Bern. Bern to Paris 5 hours.

June 21st: Paris.

June 22nd: Paris.

June 23rd: Paris.
June 24th: Paris.
June 25th: Rent car and drive to Amboise. Visit Chambord and Chiverny this day on the way.
June 26th: Visit the other two chateaus this day. Chanonceau
June 27th: Visit DaVinci’s home. Drive back to Paris -2 hours (or drop car and take train).
Train to London 2.5 hours.
June 28th: London.
June 29th: London.
June 30th: London.
July 1st: To Reykjavik 1:10-3:30.
July 2nd: Iceland.
July 3rd: Iceland.
July 4th: Iceland.
July 5th: Flying KEV to JFK. Leaving at 10:30AM.

My husband found a hotel in Murren that he fell in love with and we have already booked it. No turning back now. I agree that Lauterbrunnen would have been more cost effective, but we can't get our money back for the hotel. I was reading that a Swiss Pass might give 25-50% off as well.

You are right about the hidden fees of the car rental. We will have to really weigh that against being able to have time to see Lucerne. The time saved by driving a car from Fussen to Interlaken (looks like 4 hours difference) will free us up to see Lucerne. There isn't another way to fit it into our schedule. I am planning to look into travel insurance and hopefully that will help with the car insurance.

Thanks so much!

Kenko and you have had very helpful information! You are right. We are definitely seeing Versailles and Neuschwanstein. You will be happy to know that even though Chillon is beautiful, it is not on our itinerary. :) I was just looking at Thun, and am considering taking a train from Interlaken to Thun and then to Bern and on to Paris. Thun looks beautiful! That is the problem - we want to see it all.

Hi Chrissie- Well, Murren is awesome, the views over the Lauterbrunnen Valley to the Eiger, Munch and Jungfrau are spectacular. ( watch the old Clint Eastwood movie "The Eiger Sanction" for a preview of the mountains.)
I think you should look into one of the Swiss Train passes- the gondola rides will and train rides from Interlaaken into the mountain towns will get expensive without a Family Card or something. If you go the Schilthorn- a Swiss Train Pass will save you even more.
For car rentals- check the reputable site "CarRentals.com". ( it used to be CarHire3000). It is a broker for the major car rental firms and discounts rentals and wraps insurance coverage into the price.
Have a great trip!

Just checked Eurail.com for the 5-Day SelectPass (France, Switzerland, Austria, Germany ) and it shows $820 for a pass covering 2adults and 2 kids traveling together at all times. (you get a fifteen percent discount when you travel together on the same itinerary- whether it's bought from RailEurope or Eurail)

Travel insurance companies are on the site InsureMyTrip.com. I use CSA based in San Diego.

For the Loire Valley- you can rent cars in Amboise or Blois, and avoid dealing with metro Paris traffic. I rented a car in Amboise and saw Chenonceaux, Cheverny and Chambord all in one day. TGV trains go from Paris to St.
Pierre des Corps (1 hr) then transfer for short ride to Amboise.
About a 30-minute drive south of Amboise is the medieval walled-town of LOCHES. It looks like a movie set, but it's real- complete with its own Castle. Kids love this place.

I see the difference. I kept wondering how you were getting a lower price on train passes! The difference is that our oldest will be 15 and is considered an adult on Eurail. Kids are 4-11 according to the website. :(

I will add that movie to our list of movies to see before we go. Thanks! We will end up getting a Swiss Pass. Looks like it might be worth it. I'm going to go check out that CarRentals.com site now.

I just looked at CarRentals.com and couldn't find a drop off in Interlaken. Closest was Thun and we will probably be getting in a bit late - don't want to hassle with getting back to Interlaken from Thun that night. Ugh. So I went back to EuropCar and looks like the car rental for June 15-17 is $614. That inludes a border crossing fee from what I can see. I didn't check into the insurance. Hertz was $922!! Holy cow! Avis doesn't rent in Interlaken. Looks like EurpCar and Herts are my only two options. Best deal is $614. I know it's a lot of money. It is going to be so difficult not to do it for two reasons:
1. We save one hour on the trip from Salzburg to Fussen. Drive from door to door.

2. We save about 4 hours on the trip from Fussen to Interlaken. And I can spend that time seeing Lucerne.

As much as I don't want to spend a ton of money on a car, we just might not be able to say no. Any money saving tips from anyone?

" Any money saving tips from anyone?"
You got enough information and links (in this thread oand in your previous one) in order to optimize your trips.

Nevertheless; timetables and fares (for the whole family):

June 13th:
trains at least every hr
Fare: 33 EUR (Bayern Ticket)

June 15th:
Salzburg dp 8. 15 - Hohenschwangau castles ar 13.10, change at Munich, Buchloe and Fuessen
Fare: 33 EUR (Bayern Ticket)

June 16th:
Hohenschwangau castles dp 7.15 - Lindau ar 10.03, change at Fuessen and Kempten
Fare: 33 EUR (Bayern Ticket)
Lindau dp 10.31 - Lucerne ar 14.20, change at Bregenz, St. Margrethen and St. Gallen
Fare with Swiss half Fare Card/Family Card: 60 EUR
2xSwiss half Fare Card: 220 EUR
Lucerne dp 18.05 - Muerren ar 20.55, change at Interlaken Ost, Lauterbrunen and Gruetschalp
Fare with Swiss half Fare Card/Family Card: 45 EUR

June 20th:
Muerren - Basel: Fare with Swiss half Fare Card/Family Card: 70 EUR

Basel - Paris: web fares start at 68 EUR

there's one flaw, merckerdv, namely that the Bavaria ticket is valid only from 9am on weekdays - so one would have to tweak the travel times a little bit. (and be aware, chrissiepen, that for Munich-Salzburg on a Bavaria-Ticket you'll have to stick to regional trains, labelled 'M' or 'RE' at the www.bahn.com schedules, i.e. no 'EC' or 'RJ')

personally, I'd still rent a car from Salzburg to Bregenz, from where I'd follow up meckerdv's suggestion above. if you cannot make it to Murren anyway, why not spend the night in Luzern instead ifyou're so eager to see it? a drawback with Austrian rental cars is that very likely they won't come with a Swiss motorway vignette, so that'd be another ~ 40 Euro.

a trick to reduce rail travel costs into/out of Switzerland could be to use German DB saving fares (and only to use the necessary bits), however this would inolve some tiresome research and I'm not convinced it would add up to that much significant.

Thanks Nautiker, I should have thought about it. So we get:
Salzburg dp 9.15 - Fuessen ar 13.58, visit the castle, Fuessen dp 19.05 - Lindau ar 22.01;
Lindau dp 8.31 - St. Gallen - Voralpen Express - Lucerne ar 12-20

"a trick to reduce rail travel costs into/out of Switzerland could be to use German DB saving fares (and only to use the necessary bits), however this would inolve some tiresome research and I'm not convinced it would add up to that much significant"
That would be the most economic solution indeed, but only as long as they stay all the time at Muerren, without any day trip to Lakes or mountains. That's rather hard to believe.

Thanks for all that info!
Still trying to hash this out.

I can't seem to find a sixt or europcar in bregenz. Any help?

I might want to rent the car in Salzburg and drop in Bregenz then take the train on to Lucerne.

hmm, seems sixt and europcar are in Dornbirn (15mins by train from Bregenz), however hertz has an office right in the station in Bregenz.

nautiker, thank you!

I checked with Hertz and I think it will be a perfect fit! We are saving so much money doing it this way. It will tack on a little bit of time, but I think it will be worth it.

" We are saving so much money doing it this way"
Sure?
If it's worth to rent a car for the cheap Bayern ticket area, you might save even more money by renting it at Freilassing or so, using it in Switzerland and giving it back at Loerrach, Weil, Freiburg, Offenburg or so.

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