History buffs looking for offbeat suggestions (Italy, Germany)

My husband and I will be going on a 4-6 week trip to Europe starting in early October 2014. We haven't done much set-in-stone planning yet; just lots of research and tossing ideas around. Most of what we're finding seems very mainstream and we were hoping to get a few suggestions for places "off the beaten track" that come with other travelers' stamp of approval.

We're both interested in castles, history, legends, and mythology. Anything with an interesting story. Being history majors, we have a pretty good grasp on a lot of mainstream stuff. We'd love to find towns with quirky stories or the homes of little-known heroes, that sort of thing. We want to learn something new every place that we go!

We want to know is if you're a history buff, did you go somewhere that you learned something surprising?
If you've seen a lot of castles, which ones filled you with wonder?

Two countries we are intent on visiting are Italy and Germany. Rome, Florence, Venice and Neuschwanstein are high on our list, but like I said, we also want to break free from the stuff everyone does and find something different as well.

Feel free to include suggestions from surrounding countries, too. For instance, I've been liking the look of Seville and Cordoba but Spain is on the back-burner for now because it seems too far away from our top interests. If we get tons of Spain suggestions, we might make getting over there a priority. We were also toying with the idea of Norway but again, discounted it as being too far away. We've done enough research about both to know we're interested and to fill up some time with main attractions.

Our budget is middling, so feel free to give us all suggestions. If the place you're suggesting is pricey but sounds awesome enough, we don't mind forking over the money to see it. We're quite close to our savings goal now and have a full year to save more if we need to.

Let me know if you need any more information. I can't wait to hear about some new places and start filling in the empty places in our itinerary!

What do you think about this on Germany http://livingingermany.geekymoms.com/places-to-see/haunted-places-in-germany/

Hallo inkhearted,
Some of the possible destinations are out of the way or best to be approached/undertaken by hiking/cycling.
So: how do you intend to travel?
And is this your first visit to Europe?

Some random examples, the Märchenstrasse and Edelstein route might be interesting. I was surprised by this second phenomenon, as you are specifically asking about 'being surprised'.

For further research als http://www.atlasobscura.com will provide for sure some 'quirky' ingredients for your menu. And look at this thread for specific and other valuable info: http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1843301

Happy Travels,

I wonder if you aren't putting the cart before the horse.

If it were me, look for "off the beaten track" places near the places I knew I wanted to visit--or perhaps within them (many "secondary" sights within major cities get few tourists but are at least as rewarding as the "top 10"--especially in the Italian cities you already mention).

Thanks, Regards! That's quite a list to go through, and it does look interesting. I'll have to research them and put a few on my list. :)

Arizona -- My husband has never been, but I studied abroad in the UK for a semester and made it to Budapest and Venice, just for a few days each. We're toying with the idea of buying a pass and mostly taking the train to get from point A to point B where possible, and we aren't opposed to hiking or cycling (weather permitting)! Thanks for your suggestions, and I'll check those links out. I hadn't come across Atlas Obscura before. It looks like a valuable resource.

Clementis_fur_cap-- Thanks. I've done quite a bit of research around and within our top cities. I suppose I'm looking for places that aren't well-documented or easily found that people might have stumbled upon in their own travels.

There are thousands of castles all over Europe and everyone has it's history!
The same is true for the hundreds of small medieval towns like Glurns/Glorenza, Rottweil, Perouges, Muehlhausen in Thueringen, Montagnana, Murten, Parenzo .......

I fully agree with meckerdv. There are indeed thousands of castles all over Europe. Neuschwanstein is not a real castle in my opinion, because it is from the 19th century and therefore not really old.
You mentioned also Norway, but you should realize that in October the days are shortening and the weather may already be cold. If you would like to go there, then do it so in the summer, June, July and the first half of August.
You also mentioned Spain. In that country there are a lot of castles from the middle ages. A lot were built to defend the reconquered part of the country against the Moors. You find a lot of castles and fortified towns all over the country. Most of these towns are small and could easiest be reached by car. A couple of towns stand out in my opinion: Lugo in Galicia, where the Roman walls are still in place and one can walk around the center of that town along these walls and Avila, near Madrid, where the walls of the middle age are still in place. Also Toledo is interesting, but I haven't been there myself.
Different, but also very interesting is the moorish inheritance, such as the Alhambra in Granada and the mosque in Cordoba. Also Sevilla has many moorish remains. Besides these three cities there are many smaller places with interesting moorish parts.
In Germany there are a lot of catles along the middle part of the Rhine, roughly between Bingen and Koblenz, some very well known like the Lorelei. But there are many more and also many in other parts of the country

Hi,

A castle I really can recommend is Wartburg Castle in Eisenach, hiding place for Maarten Luther for almost a year. More nice stories are connected with this historic place. Eisenach is also of interest being the birthplace of JS Bach.
Lutherstadt-Eisleben as birthplace of Maarten Luther and Lutherstadt-Wittenberg the traditional starting place of the Reformation.
Weimar, generally regarded as the cultural centre of Germany and the centrepoint of many historical events.
Potsdam, even Sans Souci is a touristic hotspot, it still is of historic interest if it’s just because of Frederik the Great, so worth a visit. Schloss Cecilienhof as place of the Potsdam Conference, it houses also a hotel, so if budget is not a problem.....
The mentioned places are located south-west of Berlin, the next south of Stuttgart.
Hohenzollern Castle near Hechingen, the ancestral seat of the Prussian Royal House and nearby Lichtenstein Castle (not the same as country Liechtenstein!).
Last but not least Elzburg Castle south-west of Koblenz, still in the hands of the founding family for over 850 years!
I don’t regard myself as a Germany specialist, but this are the places I know and I think are of interest.

Good luck with planning,

wilco3

I agree with Clementis.

Take Italy. An area i've written about a lot here is Northern Lazio. In a 100km radius, about 1 1/2 hr north of Rome, there is more history than in you could cover in a month's time.

If you study up on the Etruscans you will find painted tombs in Tarquinia, an Etruscan bridge in Vulci, and tombs about everywhere you turn.

You can find Roman hot springs that are still in use in Viterbo and Saturnia. Some of these are free, just out in the countryside among Roman ruins.

You can learn about the Farnese family, who for a while were one of the most powerful families in the Papacy, supplying popes and cardinals, and see their palaces and castles in places like Capranica, Tuscania, and of course Rome itself.

JustA website like http://www.elegantetruria.com/travel-and-itineraries/ offers scores of stories about this region.

As said above, there is an infinite number of interesting locations in Europe even if you narrow the field at castles.

In Italy you get easily spoiled about castles and walled towns: the castle in Brescia is little known but surprisingly intact, so is the walled upper town of Bergamo; Glorenza/Glurns and the beautiful Churburg in Schluderns; the castles of Miramar and Duino near Trieste; on the other side of Italy, all the castles in Valle d'Aosta plus the rather extraordinary fortress at Bard, ovelooking a Roman road, and so on and so on and so on.

In the rest of Europe the castles I found most imposing and interesting are the Cathar castles in Southern France (Peyrepertuse above all).

Hi,

History is a matter where you can talk about endlessly, is it not about a certain subject then it can be about the level of knowledge that is involved. So you have to start somewhere and actually it comes down where your specific personal interest is. So the suggestion of OP to ask about personal experiences is for me a good idea. But if I talk for instance about Maarten Luther, it means for me a lot but what does it mean for you inkhearted? To be more specific, visiting in Eisleben the Petrikirche where he was baptised, the most striking was the lack of attention there payed to this famous person. Not that they want to remember, but as a sign of modesty, expressing very well the mentality of the envirement where he grew up. That mentality was the base of the succes of the Reformation. This kind of experiences attracts me and you have to go to the historic spot to get as close it can to get more or less in contact with it and understand what actualy makes such a place so interesting. So please respond and give us an idea if this kind of experiences is in line what you expect to discover.

wilco3

Neuschwanstein Palace has little of historic interest unless you are interested in the history of tourism. It was built as a palace in the late 1800s by a largely insignificant king (except for tourism) but is an architectural masterpiece with a lovely setting on the edge of the Alps. The problem with most "real" castles in Germany is that they were allowed to fall into ruin and were quarried for stone before the time of historismus in the 1800s when many were rebuild, sometimes with fanciful plans that didn't resemble the original ones. Haut Koenigsbourg in Alsace, France was rebuilt in the 1900s, making it even newer. Others, over time, were converted to palaces that may bear little resemblance to the former castle.

There are probably 100s of routes throughout Germany based on one factor or another. For instance, if you are interested in the Staufer emperors who ruled to as far away as Sicily, there is a route in Baden-Wuerttemberg based on them. There are others such as the Swabian Poets Route, Half-Timbered House Route, Fairytale Route, Tree-Lined Roads Route, etc. so if you search hard enough, you might be able to find something of particular interest to you.

There is no lack of historic places to visit in Germany having over 30,000 castles and palaces alone, and anywhere in Germany should have at least a week or two of excellent things to visit there and nearby, if not months' worth of them. The German state with the most listed historic buildings is Baden-Wuerttemberg ( http://www.tourismus-bw.de ) followed closely by Bavaria, and for tourism they are numbers 1 and 2 but in the reverse order. Together, they probably have about half of such buildings in Germany. Both of these states are located along the southern edge of Germany, and because Baden-Württemberg is much smaller than Bavaria, its concentration of historic places is much greater.

http://www.schloesser-und-gaerten.de has information on the excellent castles, palaces, monasteries and gardens that the state of Baden-Württemberg operates. All websites I have given can be changed to English, and if you look at the individual sites in this website, it has anecdotes about each place along with other information. I can highly recommend the 3 medieval monasteries UNESCO Maulbronn, Bebenhausen and (Gross)comburg), all are well-preserved and delightful to visit. The Residenz in Ludwigsburg is Germany's largest perfectly-preserved (all original, not a post-War rebuild like too many places)) palace which has the original furnishings throughout its history and several different architrectural styles as they changed with time. It has the longest (1.5-2.5 hours) and best palace tours that I've had in all of Europe and I've seen quite a few palaces, just make sure that you take the once a day early afternoon English one as it is better than a tour in German. The impressive fortress ruins Hohenneuffen has excellent views as it is built perched on a tall steep cliff edge. The largest castle (fortress) ruin in area is Hohentwiel with excellent views over the Swiss Alps.

Our favorite town in Germany to repeatedly revisit is Tuebingen ( http://www.tuebngen.de ), just quintessential Germany with its hilly cobblestone streets, half-timbered houses, castle, interesting nontourist shops, one of Germany's oldest universities, and the nextdoor delightful medieval well-preserved Bebenhausen Monastery which also has some more modern history being the last residence of the King of Württemberg after he was forced to abdicate following WW-1 and also the seat of post-WW-II government for combined Württemberg and the Hohenzollern Prussian lands. Just south of there is Burg Hohenzollern ( http://www.burg-hohenzollern.com ) which is the rebuilt historic seat of the Hohenzollern family of Romanian and Prussian kings and German emperors.

Just a few ideas of excellent places I always enjoy revisiting in this part of Germany. For some other ideas in the area, have a look at what I wrote in #1 of http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187275-i116-k6068438-Stuttgart_as_a_base-Germany.html#49932873 .

Ah, Martin Luther, which led up to one of the most destructive times for what is now Germany, the Thirty Years War, where Protestant and Catholic forces battled across Germany, burning each others churches and thereby destroying most of the all-important church records. Although occuring centuries ago, this has largely shaped Germany into its Protestant and Catholic areas to the present day. My wife is from Biberach an der Riss which has the oldest church used simultaneously for centuries by both congregations but for separate services. It is my favorite church in Germany, perhaps because I was married in it, an excellent blend of Catholic ornateness with Protestant simplicity!!!! As a tourist it's a good thing to know what area you are in because the ornate Catholic churches are usually kept open at all times whereas the usually much more bland Protestant ones are usually kept locked except for services.

But as stated above, there is plenty of history, ranging from mankind's first musical instruments and art from 35,000 years ago to modern times, and perhaps one should be more concerned about particular times in history rather than the too broad history in general. This can steer you to particular parts of Germany that best meet your interests.

Do you have an interest in a special region or area in Germany? That would narrow it down a lot. F.i. the time when the franks ruled central Europe, or when the Saxons became the first kings and emperors of Germany, the Hanseatic league, the religious wars in 1546 and 1618-1648 (although real reason was of power and money) or the time when Napoleon conquered Germany?

It would be easiest to pick a nice area and concentrate on that. You'll find something interesting in most regions. F.i. in my recent home region in central Germany you could pick areas like the Harz Mountains or the Unstrut and Saale Valley and could fill several days each. But that would apply for many other areas as well. Just as some starters:

Harz Mountains - northern edge/slope:

Brocken (mountain/legends with witches)
Thale (gorge/legends with giants)
Goslar (former power house of German (Saxon) emperors with beautiful old town and silver mines)
Wernigerode (beautiful old town with old but 19th ct. neo-style fairy tale castle and steam trains to Brocke summit)
Quedlinburg (same as Goslar except silver mines, but with castle and grave of the first German king)
Other places around for history: Halberstadt, Magdeburg(only some churches survived 30year war and WW II), Braunschweig

Harz Mountains - southern slope:
Stolberg/Harz (small renaissance castle, half timbered houses, woods)
Kyffhäuser (small mountains with several castles dating back to the Saxon area . The legend says that emperors Barbarossa (who died in a river marching towards Jerusalem) sleeps in this mountains and will come back some day), castle ruin in Neustadt/Harz.

The Saale Unstrut area offers interesting places like Freyburg, Naumburg, Weißenfels, Merseburg, Memleben, the ruins Rudelsburg and Saaleck, a side step to Querfurt maybe.....
Some of these places had been built as frontier forticfications guarding the left Saale river side against the Slavaian tribes at the righten side (and supressing them).

Moreover Erfurt is my favorite town in Germany. (@marcopolko: I have never been to Tübingen:-)

But that's just what I can suggest because I know this area best. Franconia, Swabia or the Rhine and Mosel valley would totally be able to offer the same or even more. Furthermore have a look at German UNSECO sites. They are touristy, but mostly chosen for good reasons.

If you're not interested in a special era/topic but just in castle and quaint towns I could suggest the following video links to make a choice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvF-9KQjYKc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFxbgwoumKQ

Well, I'm getting confused now about your options. There really is just so much to see and you've picked 2 large areas in Germany and Italy. But the last few posts above would suggest you need to narrow your field a bit - perhaps by historic period (Etruscans, mediaeval, barock for example), theme (religion, art) or geography. You could easily spend a month between Rome and Florence, or between Berlin and Dresden, and Thuiringia is full of historic sightrs as Wilco has pointed out (though he left out Naumburg!!) for example. I think you need to re-examine your options and be more specific about what you want to look at. You can't do it all in just a few weeks so you need to define your choices a bit more.

Just wanted to say thanks for the Atlas Obscura website. It's been keeping me occupied for hours at work! :P
Cheers.

Miramare: could probably get very popular with foreign tourists if the more than 50 years old Sound and Light show would be reactivated and if the Triestini would push tourism, for example by creating good transport offers to the neighbouring gems like Grotte di San Cassiano, Lipizza, Postumia, Montona, Parenzo .......
I have somewhat the impression that Tourism officials there have not yet realized that the Iron Courtain doesn't exit any longer

You are absolutely right. We spent a beautiful holiday with base in Trieste and day trips all over the area, including Slovenia, years ago. Miramar with its rocky beach and crystal clear water, Duino castle (very interesting, with a coastal walk to reach it), the World War I monument in Redipuglia, the underground Timavo river emerging nearby, Grotta Grande, absolutely beautiful, the equally interesting caves of Postumia in Slovenia, Lipica which is appealing even though you don't know nothing about horses, the a trip to Ljubljiana, another to Aquileia...

#15: Thanks, I got it from the USA Board (poster Flagstuff).
And tremendous link european, where to begin?

A new short series on BBC Radio 4 is entitled "The Invention of Italy". You should find it at http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03dfp5r . It is good at relating Italy to the other influences of Europe which I suggest makes it appropriate for all history buffs

#18. Re: Found on Atlas Obscura website... I am intrigued by the idea of a Slaughterhouse Five tour in Dresden!

#16

According to rumours about the upcoming 2013/2014 timetable 2 trains/day from Ljubljana will terminate in Villa Opicina instead of Sezana.

http://www.drehscheibe-foren.de/foren/read.php?30,6581959

Let's see what happens! Unfortunately the infamous Trenitalia management might still torpedoe this plan. Italians were always very good at torpedoing!

http://youtu.be/Nt8rJPsDOAc

We'd love to find towns with quirky stories or the homes of little-known heroes

Not too far from Germany in the Ardennes Forest of Belgium the tiny town of Bouillon on the banks of the snaking Semois river is the hometown of not only one, but two little known heroes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouillon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godfrey_of_Bouillon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Degrelle

I was all over Germany and #10 is giving you the best advice with Tubingen/Bebenhausen. Make sure you go there on a day when the market is in town and go into the City Hall there and ask to the art on teh walls. It's magnificent.

Here are some places history buffs must see in Germany that aren't necessarily uber-popular.

The castle in Eisenach (MAGNIFICENT)
the church and Merchant's Bridge in Erfurt (walking in the church you can hear your own footsteps echo. chilling!)
the castle in Sababurg (this is supposedly where Sleeping Beauty takes place)
and the castle in Goslar. What an AMAZING thing to see. The whole town of Goslar was adorable.

Shoot me any questions you may have.

I also loved the town of Hannoversch-Munden.