Funeral in Germany

We live in Western Canada and have to attend a funeral in Germany - family member. Even so we visit Germany approximately every 2.5 years, we have not attended a funeral. Husband insists it is still formal and I say no - that he does not have to purchase a suit for the occasion - that really anything is presentable now.

Anyone unfortunate enough to have attended a funeral in Germany recently and can offer me some advice ??

Formal - not really. Anything - not really either. Clothing should be "nice", not too casual. Most important: wear black, at least dark colours. If it is a very close relative (parent, grandparent, sibling), black is a must. Men may combine dark jacket and pants resp. suit with a white shirt and dark or grey tie. A black V-neck sweater with black or white shirt and dark tie would also do if that is all he has. The tie makes a great big difference in "formalness".
If he already owns a dark suit, I'd say wear it. As for buying one - if there are no other occasions in his usual life where he might need a dark suit I would not spend the money. However, if you don't have anything black or dark, you'll have to go shopping. Anything brighter than dark grey, dark brown, maybe navy or dark violet would be a no-no.

Well, I believe that every man should own (at least) one black suit and a white shirt and a tie, no matter how much of a slacker he is. Perhaps this is the occasion. This in fact is the only dress that is 100 % appropriate during such an event if it includes a black tie.

If you settle for less than 100 %, all other options were described by #1 perfectly. People wear all kinds of stuff to funerals these days, who really cares except for some older folks, dressing up is not worth it just for an afternoon (attention: irony).

Thank you for these posts. Husband is now comfortable with wearing a brown tweed jacket and slacks - it is a classic and toned down in colour, therefore should do. #2, we live in B.C. western Canada. I have no idea of where he would ever wear a black suit. We used to attend the symphony balls but then it was a black tux and those would change in favoured design almost every year. Overall - where I live, those who must have a black suit in their wardrobe, would have it to immitate a mafia member for Halloween or are an undertaker. But either way - I appreciate your thoughts - thank you. We shall sleep in peace tonight :)

Brown tweed does not sound very dark to me.

It seems almost anything can be worn now a days, where suits were a must in the past, and I'm old enough that it was standard throughout all my life. Get that dark suit, not only are you showing respect to the deceased, but as you are a family member you are also representing the family at the funeral. The cost of a new suit (or used), it not be expensive, is probably only a fraction of your plane ticket costs. At the two funerals I attended of close family members in both the US and Germany in the last two years, almost all men wore suits.

you do not need to wear a suit at a german funeral but: (...)

a black (needs to be black, dark blue or dark grey or anthracite) long sleeve pullover
that does not shown your skin on the arms (a t-shirt would), black trousers (or dark
blue or dark grey) and black shoes (can be black trainers as well) will be fine. you
will not necessarly need a tie if you do not have one (or if you wear the mentioned
pullover). out of reverence - the only essential is not to show too much of your skin
at a funeral. you can wear a black baseball cap as well (maybe without any branding
or logo) instead of a hat.

like this it should be fine. i know, the image is not too big, anyway...

'super

I've attended 3 or 4 funerals in Germany in the past years and one thing I noticed was that at least the male relatives all wore suits. Many of them looked like they would never normally wear a suit in their life, some had extremely cheap-looking suits probably bought for the occasion and many of the suits were probably hanging in the wardrobe for 20 years or so, yet they made the effort. And then there were the people who just wore anything. I can't help it, but somehow I had the impression they were too cheap to dress up.

Especially when going to a foreign country, I'd try to make the best impression possible. I wouldn't feel comfortable if my relatives would be saying - "look, he came all the way from X, but he was too cheap to buy himself proper attire." - and believe me, people do talk about such things on such events, sometimes even for years.

OP, don't you have the kind of shops in Canada that sell some suits for $ 99 or so which you might donate to charity afterwards? If not, you might buy one it Germany for € 59. Link

I'm not in Germany but would agree with the above posters -- something dark and preferably a suit. But I would leave off the black baseball cap. Nobody wears hats nowadays and a baseball cap would be in really poor taste -- especially with a suit.

LOL - yes. I hope the baseball cap was a joke. A baseball cap at a funeral on anyone older than, say, 18 would scream "American" and "very poor taste".
By the way, men are expected to take off any headwear in church and at the grave as sign of respect. Women keep their hats on (if they wear any, most don't), but men never.

I don't know about the specifics of funerals in Germany, but if you don't have anything appropriate to wear, can't you hire a suit, or borrow one from a friend?

I am having trouble grasping the message in your responses.

As the person is now dead, I am at a loss as to what good it does to the dead person or anyone else - to spend money on more clothing.

I think it a much better idea to have spent that money with/on that person, while they were alive.

I know I would be honouring that person if I spent the money instead of on a suit for their funeral - but on helping unfortunates in other countries, in memory of that dead person.

IMHO

Funerals are not just for the dead, they are also for the living.
Wearing the attire considered proper for such an event expresses your respect for the bereaved and that you share their grief.

How closely related is your husband to the deceased? Things may be different in urban / less conservative areas, but in the rural region where I grew up, close family such as children, grandchildren, or nephews, cousins etc. would definitely be expected to wear a black suit, or a combination of black trousers and black jacket or coat with a white shirt and black tie.
Why doesn't your husband get back in touch with the rest of the family in Germany and ask them what they think he should wear and if they can lend him a jacket/coat if necessary?

#12 - I had thought that anyone's simply attending - especially when coming from west coast Canada - is clearly expressing their respect and clearly showing that they share the family's grief. I know the deceased would be more than horrified if we spent money to please others for show ..... when we could have honoured her highly by spending that money in her name, on unfortunates about the world. Thank you everyone for your input.

OK liamh - you asked them all for advice, they gave it, you are going to ignore it. Why did you bother asking in the first place?

PIETÄT we call the instance in german.
my online-translator gives me different
words for this term in english.

respect+, +deference+ or +reverence

it is not - comming from somewhere special-,
this "place-X" someone mentioned above.
we just wear dark things without showing our
skin. the "baseball cap" was not a joke but just
an alternative since this discussion is on a very
low level already.

you should be wearing a hat instead of a cap,
correct.

if you use google, type in the german word for
funeral which is "beerdigung" and click on
fotos+ or +images. this is how people look
at a funeral in this country.

'super

How utterly bizarre. Liamh asks a question but she had clearly already come to a decision and was going to ignore any advice to the contrary.

Liamh, why did you ask for advice when you'd already made up your mind? People posted some thoughtful responses with the best of intentions and you've just wasted their time. Maybe the solution lies in this from your original post: Husband insists it is still formal and I say no. Perhaps you weren't looking for 'advice' at all and were instead just looking for ammunition to bolster your argument with your husband. How childish of you.

It's people like you who drive TT regulars away.

Yes, certainly seeking validation for her point of view. I only hope that they also wear a maple leaf pin so that they will be recognized as Canadians and not mistaken for Americans, whom I hope all have better taste as to appropriate wear, as does her husband.

Just an unrelated example for OP: A friend of mine from Poland was getting married to a Brit and the wedding took place in Poland. The groom's British guests were clearly told that Poles regardless of age dress up for such events, guys wear suits + tie, women wear gowns, nice shoes etc.

Yet most of the Brits, men and women, who attended wore jeans, T-shirts, boots, sneakers, maybe upgraded by a formal jacket here and there. This was three years ago and my friends - who are around 30 - still keep on talking about those British philistines and their lack of culture - I wouldn't want such a thing happen to me, so I'd make sure to dress as correctly as possible, especially after having been given such advice.

quote: british philistines and their lack of culture (...) hahaha! the
polish can be strict..! they have probabely thought: "the british
protestant philistines an their lack of culture" hehehe!

sad but true: in germany mattoni's described attidtude to wear sneakers,
colourfull t-shirts, bermuda shorts to any occasion (easter,
christmas day, boxing day, ascension day) instead of dark pants,
fine leather shoes and just a white shirt (mayyybe a tie, mayyybe a
light summer/winter hat) is widely seen as a result of an ignorant
personal background.

if your parents did not follow those rules anymore, what can you do
better during your life..?

today and not only in england, also here in germany, people tend not
to care about those issues anymore - i would simply call it a disinterest

in your countries own aesthetic heritage.

same as some folks on the street rather glare at someone instead
of greeting him with a loud ...guten tag mein herr!

not?

'super

Why ask a question if you won't accept the answers? Would you also travel to a muslim country wearing a mini skirt? Or go to a wedding in torn jeans?

If you like it or not, there are some etiquettes still around, and wearing black (and not brown!) at a wedding is one in Germany. It is not only about showing disrespect to the deceased, but also the whole culture. It is not about if this makes sense in your eyes or not, it's about respect for a tradition in the country you visit.

But hey, go ahead, wear any colour you like, you will look like a fool, loose the respect from everybody else there and will be forever branded as the insensitive american. If that's what you want...

You are jumping to rude conclusions.

I have not made up my mind
I am not ignoring anyone
I have not refused the responses in this post

I simply am having trouble wrapping my mind around all the responses.
Such things take time.

Edited by: liamh

For all those posters full of assumptions and who know everything –

#1 & #2 – thank you for being polite and thorough.

#12 – I totally understand and agree with your response. This was an odd case – as my friend who will die shortly, is in Bad Tölz and wishes to be buried in Icking, which most certainly is rural. And husband has been hugely tied up with work.

I worked in the field for the UN for years and adapting to cultures has been my life. Oddly – luckily ? of all the countries and relatives we have in our family, a death in Germany of which we attended the funeral, has not come about for many years, and I wondered if there might be changes.

This morning I just received advice from a friend in Germany, re my dear friend’s imminent death:

“A black suit, you need to get, due to the declaration of ** - surely not!”

Then explain the content of posts #11 and 13. If that's not ignoring advice, I don't know what is.

tony_b : I was exceptionally clear to all when I said –

“I simply am having trouble wrapping my mind around all the responses.
Such things take time.”

I also made a point of thanking those that offered their thoughts without being rude.

Clearly – our English dictionaries vary greatly.

For anyone thinking that the phrase:
"I am having trouble"
….. means the same as (before action was taken) …..
"ignoring advice"

• • • is going to meet with a great deal of brick wall in their life.

"This morning I just received advice from a friend in Germany, re my dear friend’s imminent death:"

Surely visit your friend now when he/she is alive, when it means something to the both of you, than after his/her death. The funeral should be immaterial given the option of visiting a dying friend.

I appreciate your advice marcopolko . - thank you.
I too firmly believe in respecting and honouring as one lives. I do not wait for birthdays and such. Unfortunately, my friend has met with a sudden tragedy – is now on life support – something she did not ever want – and she now knows no one. We have just given our support to let her go. I could never make it there in time. You’ll have to pardon me as I will leave this thread, for this has been far too stressful for me. Even so, thank you for your advice and I am sure others can take value from it.

my friend who will die shortly, is in Bad Tölz and wishes to be buried in Icking, which most certainly is rural.

Without getting prescriptive about this, my own experience of rural Bavaria is that people there are very traditional and conservative in outlook so you're probably right to do a little homework on this...

LOL - yes. I hope the baseball cap was a joke. A baseball cap at a funeral on anyone older than, say, 18 would scream "American" and "very poor taste".

Well, don't forget BF that Colonel Parker (Elvis Presley's manager) wore a baseball cap and shorts at Elvis's funeral...but there again he was a Dutchman...

This question was posted on older travellers too
There most of the people tried to help and told that it was an event that needed formal clothes.
if you feel uncomfortable with that, skip the funeral itsself and visit the grave at another occasion and pay your respects to the person

showing up not properly dressed to a funeral and then tell your relatives that you prefered to donate the money to someone else might be considered as quite a slap in the face by your German relatives - a decent looking dark jacket and slacks cost you less than USD 200.00 - you spend considerably more on the flight, why not donate also this money -

if the funeral is in a smaller community people still put quite an emphasis on how you are dressed - showing up unproperly dressed might embarass your family and damage your relationship with them - and Germans can hold a grudge for a very long time (especially the older generation) - not sure if saving USD 200.00 is worth this outcome..

accidentally skipped the later discussions - Icking is a smaller Bavarian town - I grew up just about an hour driving from there - not dressing up properly and boasting that you prefered to donate money instead will not make you any friends - it will be seen as disrespectful, ignorant and arrogant -

On my noting that few are actually reading my posts - with most responses wildly assumptive, disrespecful, ignorant and arrogant ….. I very much doubt I should bother to follow up – but here goes.

I again copy in the E-mail I received from family in Icking and posted in this thread..

“A black suit, you need to get, due to the declaration of - surely not!”

And below is the final advice received from family in Icking:
• No viewing.
• The body will be cremated.
• No funeral service.

• No cemetery.

• No one will know where the urn will be placed - anonymous grave.
• There will be a simple gathering at a relative’s house in Icking.

• Have been advised on telephone, that the idea of wearing anything other than regular clothing is ridiculous.

= = = = = =

It would have been relatively easy to decide what to wear with a funeral in most other places in the world – but there were extenuating circumstances – and our family live and work about the world – and all had to be decided right now - i.e. flight to Bavaria within 24 hours.

Thank you to those that were polite and supportive - the short notice was a shock to say the least.

First, my condolences.

This is an absolutely non-typical procedure without any formal ceremony. If it's just a gathering in someone's house, of course the usual dressing rules might not apply. How could any poster here know about that? This is no allegation because I think you didn't know what was exactly planned either.

Mattoni: Yes of course you are right – I had no idea. However, the need to attend this event definitely did trigger memories of articles which I had previously read in the media and also brought to mind of when I was about others chatting on the subject. Some wouldn’t go to a funeral without wearing black – so many many things were required - - and others were exactly the opposite – and all were multi generation Germans.

I so wish I had realized the operative word for me to have GOOGLED should have been ‘anonymous’. For once I received the confirmed advice of the funeral – which I printed out here - then a myriad of info was produced by GOOGLE using this specific term. Below are some URLS that I think should be of interest:

Rise in popularity of alternative burials (written in 2005)

Of the approximately 820,000 who die annually in Germany, about 15 percent opt to be buried anonymously, without ceremony. Likewise, more and more Germans are also opting for non-traditional options such as burial at sea, communal graves or burial in woodland cemeteries.
Click Here

In the following link, the writer declares ……. “I cannot deny that I find this personally abhorrent</i>” ….. thus the probable reason ??? - - for the many personal assumptions in this thread as to my character – also as to what I had ‘already’ decided, and etcetera …. ? I think so. I had not included a burial (in my mind) in the big 3 no nos – which are politics, sex and religion – however, in retrospect, I see that in many ways this subject does belong there.
Click Here

Lastly - the URL below basically covers our family member’s wishes – for it turns out she wished the vast amount of money requried to be spent on her funeral – to be spent on her niece and family whom she adored. A fabulous decision I thought.

"The way Germany handles the dead has long been different, but changes are in the works.
Germany's methods of handling the dead have been out of step with those in the rest of the Western world. For generations, cremation and embalming were handled by the state, rather than by funeral homes; people have had no choice as to what to do with cremated remains (they had to buried in a cemetery); the private cemetery hardly exists; and many people choose an anonymous grave with no headstone (something that's found in Germany's European neighbors but virtually unknown in North America).

Changes are in the works, however, partly because laws are being harmonized with those of the European Union neighbors, and partly because many people want to rein in the exorbitant cost of a funeral and burial. It's a standing joke that "you can't afford to die."

And the costs can be staggering; up to €8,000. Expatriates might find themselves paying even more if they wish to ship the remains home for burial."
Click Here

my condolences -

but may I ask you why asking an anonymous crowd for advice if you could have (as you obviously did) picked up a phone and asked the relatives directly?

very unusual ceremony for my region indeed -

don;t just google around and think your findings apply to each and everyone - you will hardly find anonuymous gravestones outside large cities and cremation is not something normal in vast regions of hte soth ( no Catholic tradition)

To answer your question – relatives didn’t know what advice to offer as she had a Will. The Will of course was not available until various formalities such as death was proven and state notification was finalized - it was only then that we knew what was expected for her funeral.

In my shock of the moment and having what we thought as approx 8 hours to pack and find a flight out – querying on the LP forum was a natural as even with the multi board changes I have been on the TT for near 10 years. Through this time I have made many friends with whom I have visited and stay in contact. Granted I have been far too busy travelling in the last year, but I’m still about as many are aware.

As I visit Germany with inclusion of Icking at least every 2.5 years, and backpack a minimum of 2 months each year in 3rd world countries – I am familiar with living in varying customs. I also realize that data produced by GOOGLE can rarely be applied to every one or instance. Mind you, even children in grade school who have never travelled are taught this. Howvever, facts are facts. Burials in Germany are definitely changing.

I had never thought this post would end up being so spiteful nor so lengthy. I had thought it would be a max of perhaps 4 posts. Thus with all the interesting demands, accusations and innuendos – I thought to follow up and include everyone on how funerals are definitely changing in Germany. I know many have found this interesting.

I had never thought this post would end up being so spiteful nor so lengthy

Amen to that...it never ceases to baffle me why some of the posts around here become so contentious...surely if something is of no consequence to another TTer the rational thing to do would be move on to the next post rather than plough into a thread with fire and sword...

Cross posting here ....

Yesterday, arrived home from Icking.

The anonymous burial was within the cemetery - but in a separate grassy area, where multi others are buried anonymously.

When partner brought out his suit, family immediately thought I had not conveyed their E-Mail advising him to not wear a suit. They advised him to please keep his suit stowed saying he would feel ridiculous wearing it.

People wore simple dresses (flowered and plain), cardigans, coloured shirts, slacks of all colours, some wore light fleece toppers as it was sort of cool weather.

Not one person wore black clothing.

The funeral at home in Icking, was more of a celebration of life and loving remembrance - was informal in the extreme – very pleasant.

“A black suit, you need to get, due to the declaration of ** - surely not!”

As I said before, it seems this was an unsusual funeral and that it may have been the wish of the deceased to have a informal and relaxed gathering. I'm happy that you enjoyed it and that the suit issue was solved.

Just to defend the posters - including me - who claimed that a suit would be needed I'd like to express that could not foresee or guess that. A usual German funeral with many people from different ages still requires formal attire unless other instructions are given.

If you had asked what to wear to a funeral of a member of the German Hell's Angels my answer would have been different, too.