Feedback on Spain-Portugal Roadtrip

Hi team.

We're planning to fly into Madrid, and undertake the following roadtrip in a rental car (and this is where we spend each night):

19-Sep - Fly Rome > Madrid
20-Sep - Madrid
21-Sep - Madrid
22-Sep - Duero Valley 320 km drive
23-Sep - Porto 280
24-Sep - Porto 0
25-Sep - Lisbon 320
26-Sep - Lisbon 0
27-Sep - Faro 280
28-Sep - Faro 0
29-Sep - Seville 200
30-Sep - Seville 0
01-Oct - Granada 250
02-Oct - Granada 0
03-Oct - Murcia 280
04-Oct - Murcia 0
05-Oct - Albacete 150
06-Oct - Madrid 250
07-Oct - Fly Dubai / Melbourne

We don't need to include Cadiz, Gibraltar, Malaga, Alicante, or Barcelona, since they will be visited on a cruise. Can I have your views on the pace? I don't particularly like driving 300 km in a day, but we will do so if it makes the overall trip a well-balanced one. Any views on amendments would be welcome.

Thanks in advance.

It's really a lot of driving and a city oriented trip (with one full day everywhere?) where having a car can/will be a burden.
Personally i would stick to Spain with your timeframe so you can focus a bit more on smaller places as well, places where you'd need having a car to get there.

That being said in this itinerary i would skip Faro ( not a highlight to me and not interesting enough for driving that far for) and drive from Lisbon to Seville via Evora, a part of Alentejo and maybe Extremadura as well (various possibilities there).
A bit the same for Murcia… it's an interesting city if you have already visited much in Spain. In your case i would skip it and drive from Granada to Albacete via Baeza, Ubeda, Cazorla and its NP.
I think that both alternatives would result in a better balance between cities and (small) towns, nature and general scenery where having a car would be an advantage.

Thanks artemis ... will re-work it and get back. So Porto and Lisbon aren't essential?

For a start, if you haven't already seen it, here is a Guardian article about the Douro valley:
http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2016/may/21/douro-region-wine-port-tour-restaurants

Neither Porto or Lisbon are a good place to have a car, and I do think you are cutting your time in Lisbon a bit short. The drive from Porto will take a long time and it leaves you only one full day in Lisbon, which definitely deserves more. It's a great city.

It looks like a lot of driving, but if you want to do a road trip, I guess this is it. Have a look on the search function -- there is a long thread from a year or two ago about a special fee for driving in Portugal.

Would it be reasonable to retain Porto/Lisbon (3 nights not 2), and delete Murcia, since the cruise includes Malaga / Alicante? Just drive from Granada north back to Madrid in our time?

So Porto and Lisbon aren't essential?

They both are interesting, especially Lisbon (and for more than one full day) but what is essential? You will have to make choices here for working out a balanced trip where the driving time isn't too long so you can do the places you visit some justice. And that means you can't do it all.
You can always come back and visit Portugal another time. I have spent two weeks between (and excluding)Lisbon and Porto alone. There is so much to see there as well.
Bear in mind that this is a road trip and not something like an inland cruise where you get limited time for visiting a place. Take advantage of that and you can make a quality trip (over a quantity trip).

I've never been to Lisbon. Porto's interesting, but I wouldn't say it's one of Iberia's highlights, and I'd certainly put it in the "potentially missable" list.

Granada is fabulous, and merits extra time if you can. If you like scenic drives, there are some spectacular little roads heading through the villages of the nearby Sierra Nevada. Toledo's an obvious place to stop on the way into Madrid from anywhere in the south. The place is especially atmospheric late in the afternoon, when all the day-trippers leave. You could also look into Cordoba.

The Duero starts somewhere in the area of Soria and finally ends in Porto. I can't figure from you post which part of the Duero you explicitly plan to visit. However, if you skip Portugal completely, you could visit the Spanish part of the Duero, end in Zamora, then go South to Salamanca and via Cacerés and Merida to Seville. On the way to Zamora you could stop in Toro, and try their (excellent) wines. Zamora itself is interesting as are Salamanca, Cacerés and Merida.

This post has been removed by its author.

The Algarve is okay but not amazing, especially if you are accustomed to Australian beaches. I'd suggest that you skip Faro (2n). Add 1 of those nights to Lisbon and add a day trip from L. to Sintra. Use the other night for an overnight stop in the in/near Evora on the way to Seville. BTW, Córdoba is also very worthwhile (the Mezquita, Alcazar de Los Reyes Christianos, the Jewish Quarter--the city is a Unesco World Heritage site) if you can squeeze in a half day there.

Agree with #9 about Sintra, but will our OP have the time for that? Spending time in Portugal will result in less tim in Spain and a serious loss of stupid time on the roads.

And what about your interests Ian? You tell us nothing about that. You seem to be mainly focussed on cities (Faro and Murcia seemed rather random choices) while there are so many smaller gems along the way where you will driving by and which are more accessible with a rental car. Those smaller places can often be much more rewarding because they are so easy to drive into without much hassle and it is easier to get a feel of them with little time. I rather see places decently in a more geographically compact area than just hitting the surface in more places in a very superficial way, everywhere and also when I travel outside of my continent.
I recommend you to read a guidebook to Spain or eg Andalucia alone :)

Fair enough ... the selection of overnight stops is based on the logistics of a reasonable day's drive, with interesting things to see and experience along the way.

So Faro, because I understood the Algarve was top-drawer in Portugal, but now I learn that it's possibly not. While Murcia just a notional overnight stop to see the coastline, but probably can be dispensed with in the timeframe, since the proposed cruise visits the places it does.

In terms of interests I loved Rome, Florence, San Gimignano, Volterra, Siena, Dubrovnik, Kotor, Rhodes, etc. City and rural landscapes (Glencoe, Lake Como), really old architecture, cathedrals, town squares, bridges. Formal museums in small doses (I much prefer to be outside), and not especially a foodie or a wino. Don't mind strolling upscale shopping precincts.

National/state parks, plus a picnic lunch every day where possible ... don't mind long drives if it's rewarding enough. Don't mind popular 'touristy' places (San Gimi for example) if the popularity is genuine and justified. I could not see the point of the Spanish Steps ... they seem to just be famous for being famous.

The Algarve in Portugal does not have specific tourist attractions of the kind you claim to like. Some old towns with a centre to stroll in for a bit, but the area is now filled with British real estate offices, large resorts catering to northern Europeans (esp Brits) in search of sunshine, golf courses. So easily skipable if it's only to see the coast. There are, of course, nice places, but you don't really have time to find them if it's just a stop to cut short and have a break from a day's driving.

I personally like Lisbon a lot as a city to walk around in, the people are friendly and prices reasonable for W Europe. But indeed, you might have to rethink your trip a bit in order to have a bit more sightseeing and a bit less driving.

The Spanish Steps are one of the Paris Hiltons of tourism, if I may steal an expression from hello_bamboo.

Indeed ... I used that example pretty much entirely in ommarge to that wonderful thread re bffbf.

but the area is now filled with British real estate offices, large resorts catering to northern Europeans (esp Brits) in search of sunshine, golf courses.

I'd rather eat dead rats and crawl over broken glass, as an Aussie prime minister said to me one day.

There are, of course, nice places, but you don't really have time to find them if it's just a stop to cut short and have a break from a day's driving.

It's always a delicate balance between being too rushed to explore and enjoy, versus being too slow and meandering, therefore only seeing a modest percentage of what you really could have seen in your time. We had seven nights in Paris ... in the context of our overall itinerary, 4-5 would have been ample.

So most places get two nights by default, to give you a full day, unless there are compelling reasons to allocate more (and of course I'm very willing to accept that Lisbon warrants a minimum of three nights).

There is also some psychological pressure to making up an itinerary under certain conditions. Renting a car or buying a railpass makes you want to get your money's worth so you keep moving.

Renting a car or buying a railpass makes you want to get your money's worth so you keep moving.

We've driven tens of thousands of km in rental cars here and overseas, and have more than enough experience to not be victim of that syndrome ... in fact in most of our ventures, any "mistakes" we have ever perceived (and they are rare), have been caused by staying in a place a bit too long, rather than too little.

The bigger issue for us is securing accomm we like, for what we're happy to pay, a long time before we get there ... we definitely are not interested in 'winging it'.

If you have already done that kind of trip several times, then you would know best about how much you are willing to drive.

About accommodation, I would suggest using booking.com to find hotels. The advantage is that you usually don't have to pay in advance and can cancel for free up to one day beforehand.

Yes ... we've used booking.com for lots of years, and never prepay ... and it's a good website and keeps nice records. We also use Airbnb, plus nearly always stay in HI/YHA hostels where available (although both these take a fee if you amend or cancel).

We tend to go for a long-term average of 150 km per day every day.

Just my personal opinion, but I appreciated Portugal much more than Madrid and southern Spain. Porto, The Douro, Sintra, and Lisboa were my highlights. I didnt care for The Algarve at all.

Thanks for that ... in fact, thanks to everyone. Will assimilate all the inputs and suggestions, and aim to respond with something more sensible!

That castle in Sintra looks like Disneyland!

That castle in Sintra looks like Disneyland!

Shhh! Don't say that -- it will soon be as popular as Neuschwanstein.

I add that I prefer Portugal to Spain as well.

From a traveller's point of view, all of Europe is a big theme park, and all you residents are just doing a Truman Show role!

Do you mean "travellers" from countries with no cultural attractions?

I have digested all the suggestions, and I'm very appreciative, plus I have read more guidebook and consulted my atlas.

As a result I have trimmed the proposed itinerary, losing Porto, Algarve, and Murcia/Albacete, and I trust it is now substantially less rushed. I have included a third night in Lisbon as well.

Here is version two (where we spend the nights, nominal distance that day in parentheses):

22-Sep - Madrid > Zamora (260 km)
23-Sep - Salamanca (70)
24-Sep - Alentejo (240)
25-Sep - Lisbon (280)
26-Sep - Lisbon
27-Sep - Lisbon (incl Sintra)
28-Sep - Merida (via Evora) (280)
29-Sep - Seville (190)
30-Sep - Seville
01-Oct - Cordoba (140)
02-Oct - Cordoba
03-Oct - Granada (200)
04-Oct - Granada
05-Oct - Manzanares (via Ubeda) (250)
06-Oct - Madrid (180)
07-Oct - Fly Melbourne

Any further comments on my allegedly improved itinerary would be welcome.

And just to reiterate that the coast from Cadiz to Barcelona will be visited by cruise ship, if all goes well.

Plus we have 2 x nights Cordoba and 2 x nights Seville, should we change that to three for Seville, and one for Cordoba?

And just a question on accommodation: we would normally check in order (1) HI hostels (private rooms), (2) booking.com, (3) Airbnb, (4) other independent B&Bs etc. But Spain/Portugal are new for us, so as travellers who like to pre-book all nights before travel, what would you suggest as the right strategy for these two countries? Any thoughts?

24 Sep - Where did you have in mind for an overnight stop? When looking on a map you won't drive trrough Alentejo from Salamanca to Lisbon, you will stay north of it. I have no experience with that part of Portugal, but there could be nice places as well. Maybe someone else has a suggestion.
28 Sep - Merida. While i've enjoyed the whole region of Extremadura a lot (travelled during 10 days in that area alone) Merida wasn't amongst my favourite places, even if it does have very important Roman remains and the Roman museum is a gem (will you have the time to visit them?), but other than that we've found that the city hadn't too much to offer. You don't have the time for making a detour to prettier Caceres or Trujillo, that would be too far out of the way. Smaller Zafra a bit further south could be a possible nice alternative, easier to drive into and easier to get a feel on such a short stopover.

After numerous trips to Andalucia i still haven't made it to Cordoba, which awaits me for a next trip, but i think many will recommend you to add a night in Seville and stay one night less in Cordoba. Or add a night to Granada instead (i've spent 5 hours in the Alhambra alone!). Let other people comment on Cordoba.
Good luck with your car in Seville :) You won't use it there and parking will be a problem (or expensive)

As to accommodation. Would you be willing to splash it for one night? The parador of Zamora is very nice and the 55+ rate (Golden Days) is reasonable at €118,3 breakfast included (and what a BF!). They are on Booking.com but not with the Golden Days rate which you better book directly through email. http://www.parador.es/en/
Otherwise i think Booking.com will offer you the best choices in general.

I checked the trip from Salamanca to Lisbon on http://www.viamichelin.com/ which gave three possibilities. #3 was interesting because it went by Cacarés and Evora, both very interesting. #2 led via Ciudad Rodrigo and Coimbra, which is one of the most interesting places in Portugal for me. #1 led via Ciudad Rodrigo almost directly into Portugal, but I don't know that area.

Thanks to both of you. I was contemplating Coimbra on the way Lisbon, since I assumed we would visit Evora on the way from Lisbon to Seville.

Thanks for the considered feedback artemis ... especially on the accomm in Zamora.

And Merida was just a nominal waypoint between Lisbon and Seville for planning purposes ... we will research options thereabouts. We could actually subtract a night from Cordoba, and have two in or near Merida ... rather than three in either Seville or Granada. Sensible?

Years ago we rented a house by the sea in Portugal and stopped overnight in Salamanca, then drove towards Lisbon. It seems to me we took the northernmost route of those mentioned in #27. Quite mountainous roads near the border, if I recall. I think indeed Coimbra would be worth a stop if you take that route.

Thanks for the further input.

We now think we may push the trip back 8-10 days (leaving here about 22 or 23 August) so that we can watch the Summer Olympics to their conclusion at home. So a couple of questions:

• there are Baltic and Norway cruises in our time, but which is likely to have the better late-summer weather?
• on the broader question, which of those two cruise options appeal more (about nine days)?
• if our Portugal | Andalusia roadtrip is now pushed back to early to mid October, does that improve the weather or compromise it (not sure how late summer runs in say Seville)

Any further insights appreciated.

I suggest you look at some weather info sites about Norway or the Baltic in late August/early September. That is an area where it is probably nicer in mid-summer, but I'm not competent. However, a few years ago we went to Portugal in October (Lisbon and then south from there) and had great weather. Not too hot, but lots of sunshine.

I am not a cruise person but a cruise to Norway would appeal to me more because seeing the fjords from a boat must be quite unique.

As to the weather for your Spain/Portugal trip, the later you go the more unstable the weather 'can' be but generally you should be fine. I have travelled several times in (southern) Spain first half of October and have had a bit of everything but usually it was ok.
One of those 2 week trips started in Seville where the weather was great, after in the Aracena mountains the weather started changing and by the time we headed to the coast in Huelva and Cadiz provinces it became rainy and very windy, but that's the Atlantic.
Another 2 week trip around that time was in the south east, Almeria to Murcia and interior. While there had been extremely heavy rains and floods in the whole area just a couple of days before we left (still visible when we were there with damaged bridges and deviations), we couldn't have had better weather with temps around 28°and blue skies during 2 full weeks.

All in all i wouldn't hesitate for travelling to southern Spain first half of October again, but given the distances and the various regions you are going to cross, you better expect some variation in the weather as well. And one year is not the other. Also, your trip is mainly focused on cities and large towns where i think the weather is of less importance (except when they are too hot in summer) compared to the countryside/mountains/Natural Parks or if you would be heading to the beaches.

Thanks ... yes the fjords are hugely appealing to me (Alaska was great), however it needs to be balanced against the exposure to open waters ... my partner isn't good with motion sickness. Still, I suppose the Baltic Sea gets rough on a bad day.

Thanks for the nuanced weather details for Spain as well.Our Mediterranean trip last April was simply outstanding weather-wise, so we're setting the bar pretty high for ourselves. And always better a bit cool than way too hot.

This topic has been automatically locked due to inactivity. Email community@lonelyplanet.com if you would like to add to this topic and we'll unlock it for you.