Austrian Itinery and trains help please

Hi everyone,

After abandoning my original idea of a weekend break in Switzerland and Kandersteg, I have come up with a new idea for Austria, but I have several questions and I need to know if my 'plan' is feasible, as follows:

(1) A Friday in October
Early morning flight to Munich from the UK arriving Munich approx. 09.00 hrs.
After checking into a hotel, take the train to Fussen to see Neuschwantstein castle
Return to Munich in the afternoon/early evening, and spend first night in Munich.

(2) Saturday AM in Munich before taking the train to Hallstaat in Austria arriving late afternoon/early evening
Overnight stay in Hallstaat

(3) Sunday AM hiking around Hallstaat area, before staying overnight a second night in Hallstaat.

(4) Monday AM departing Hallstaat for Salzburg
Check into hotel and spend Monday daytime in Salzburg, staying overnight

(5) Tuesday morning after breakfast / lunch departing Salzburg for Munich by train.

Lock luggage in train station lockers if available
Rest of day spent in Munich before evening flight home ot UK

Can anyone give me some advice on this itinery - ie if its a good one, any suggestions for a good alternative or other places we could squeeze in on this trip?

Regarding trains between the big cities, I can find trains fairly ok on Rail Europe's website, but each leg of the trip is quite expensive and will amount to a hefty bill. Is there anywhere we could obtain a travel pass/card to make the journeys more affordable?

With regards getting to Fussen from Munich to see Neuschwantstein castle, Rail Europe tells me the train takes 2h 51m and goes via Buchloe. Is this the only and quickest route? Also, for some reason Rail Europe an't give me a round trip (ie Munich - Fussen - Munich). I can only book the return as a one-way ticket, which goes back via Kaufbeuren and then Buchloe. Each way costs £60.00 - so its getting expensive already.

I can find trains from Munich to Salzburg, but Rail Europe won't recognise Hallstaat as a destination, even though it's listed in their drop-down menu. I am assuming there is another rail site for trains WITHIN Austria, where I could book the Salzburg to Hallstaat leg separately - or could this ticket be purchased at the station? According to Rail Europe, Hallstaat back to Salzburg keeps giving me the message that the point of departure is not valid!!

Would there also be an internal German rail site for the trip from Munich to Fussen? In any case, the trip from Munich to Salzburg is another £60 and the rail fares are really mounting up - surely there's a pass of some kind for tourists?

Finally, another route I am considering is flying from the UK into Wien (Vienna) on the Friday, going to Hallstaat for two nights as described above, somehow visiting Salzburg before returning to the UK via Munich. The flights this way work out cheaper, but looking at the map, it makes me think I would have to forget Neuschwantstein castle, and would have too little time in Salzburg, and Vienna for that matter.

One last question :))) When does it generally start to snow in Austria and the surrounding area? Would we need cold-weather clothing in October?

Anyway, apologies for the lengthy questions, but all answers greatly appreciated.

Rail Europe is a travel agency selling train tickets for a comission.

Look for timetable and price infromation on the websites of the respective national railways!

[www.bahn.de] for German Railways

[www.oebb.at] for Austrian Railways

Both of them have English language version if you don't speak German.

The correct spelling is Hallstatt, maybe that's why you couldn't find it!

Since the railway line from Salzburg to Bad Ischl has was closed decades ago you'd better take a bus from Salzburg to Hallstatt.

After checking into a hotel, take the train to Fussen

Wha do you waste your time by checking in to the hotel? Just leave your luggage at the railway station and check in after you come back from Füssen!

The best value ticket for making the excursion to Füssen and to travel between München and Salzburg is the Bayern-Ticket. Salzburg's railway station being next to the German border counts as both German and Austrian railway station so the Bayern-ticket is also valid!

When does it generally start to snow in Austria and the surrounding area? Would we need cold-weather clothing in October?

november-December, but you said you want hike so of course you need cold-weather clothing as snow can fall any time in the Alps, even in the middle of summer! Hiking in the Alps is not like walking in Britain!

I recently took the train from Salzburg to Hallstatt and back.....I just showed up at the station and bought a ticket....piece of cake. I needed to change trains in Attnang-Puchheim though but didn't need to buy a separate ticket.
I was there in March and did a lot of travelling by train in the area you're looking to, maybe things are different in October, but based on my experience I really wouldn't worry so much about this stuff in advance. Sure maybe I could have saved a little money if I planned it all out in advance but just showing up and buying tickets worked out great for me.

Schedule looks fine if that's what you want to do...certainly wouldn't advise you to squueze more into it as you'll be travelling most of the time anyway...

scythian has the right idea about the Bayern ticket...seeing as you're arriving at 9am you can buy it at the airport and this also covers you from there to Munich by S-Bahn (saving you approx €10 straight away) and also on public transport to your hotel or round the city that day til 3am next day...and of course to Fuessen and back...all for €20 from machine or €22 at counter...check [bahn.hafas.de] for connections...

Again as scythian explains the Bayern ticket can be used to Salzburg so another saving there...remember after 9am and local (Non-EC,IC and ICE) trains only of which there are several daily...best & prettiest option from there is bus via St Wolfgang to Bad Ischl and train from there to Hallstatt...

A good use of your extra day would be to take the boat from Hallstatt to Obertraun, then the cable car to the Dachstein ice-caves and then a further cable car to the top of Krippenstein mountain where you can dine or drink in the hut there...from there you can do some hiking...

Munich vs Vienna you have to decide for yourself what you want to be doing...

Have you considered to fly with Ryanair to Salzburg?

DB timetable
From: MUC
To: Fuessen
To: Hohenschwangau
and select as means of transport "only local transport".

Hohenschwangau is the bus stop next to the ticket center for Neuschwanstein Castle. Bayern-Ticket covers the complete trip, from the airport to Hohenschwangau bus stop.
If I remember your other posting correctly you will not travel alone. Than use the mini group (2-5 persons) version of the Bayern-Ticket which is EUR 28,00.

(5) (and maybe also an idea for (1)): there are luggage lockers at Munich Hbf (main railway station).

The first half of October is a good time to visit the Alps. Esp. for hiking.

Railroad map of Bavaria. All these lines in the south or Bavaria lead into the Alps. And due the mountains the most of these lines are branch lines.

Hallstatt is like Kandersteg again really deep in the Alps.

Here some alternatives in the Bavarian Alps:

Oberstdorf
Good for hiking. Esp. if you plan a hut to hut tour. The hikes are fairly easy. Between the huts you stay on high altitude. But from all huts you can ascend down into the same valley (where you have public buses).

Mittenwald
One of the most beautiful towns in the Alps. Again you have cable cars to get you up to the mountains, here the Karwendelbahn.

Berchtesgadener Land
Lake Königssee is a really beautiful place. Great hiking in the Berchtesgaden National Park.
This would be also a good option if you fly into Salzburg.

ad (2): instead of sleeping in Hallstatt you could probably save some money staying in Obertraun, which ist just a few km from Hallstadt. I some times stay in the Haus im Wiesengrund, which is one of the northernmost houses in Obertraun (which means you are closer to Hallstatt), and it's also possible to get a cycle there (I don't know whether they are included in the price).

ad (3): depending on your condition you have several places to go hiking. The easiest mountain is the Krippenstein, as there is a cable lift taking you to the top. The view is very scenic.

I am overwhelmed with options at the moment. I am wondering if to stay the entire 4 nights in Munich and take a day trip out to Fussen one day, then another day take a train out to Salzburg and visit Hallstaat or another place. I am also wondering if maybe I should stay just one night in Salzburg so we can see the place and also make less travelling. I think this needs further investigation, so I am going to explore some the options you've added above. I have been considering Chamonix in the French Alsp by flying into Geneva, but since this trip is for my husband's 50th, he's indicating he would prefer to see Munich and Salzburg. I am happy with both of these, but also wanted to include some outdoor scenic places. We have both travelled extensively, but never to this part of the world, so it's all unfamiliar and I don't speak German :). Thank you to everyone for your advice, and I will ask again if I get stuck

I have thought this over in view of all the above advice, and now think perhaps 2 nights in Munich followed by 2 nights in Salzburg. I am limited to Easyjet with the flights as I already have the flights to a different destination in September, which I am going to change for this occasion.

So I think maybe arriving Munich early morning, out to Fussen to see castle, and back to stay in Munich that night, with the next day also in Munich.

Day 3 train to Salzburg after breakfast, with 2 nights there, allowing us to take a day trip only to Hallstatt. Am I correct in saying it's about 2 hrs by train to Salzburg from Munich? I am also thinking, instead of staying in Hallstatt (or anywhere else in the area) maybe staying the 2 nights in Salzburg, so we can spend one day in the city and one day in the countryside - I understand its only about an hour from Salzburg to Hallstatt?

Anyone who knows this area, do you think this would be feasible in terms of getting to/from places? We then plan to catch a late flight home from Munich, therby allowing us the last day to spend leisurely in Salzburg and take the train back to Munich airport.

Basically, I just need to know all this is realistic in the time frame we have (4 days) so I can book the flights - we can work out the trains etc over the next few weeks, but I need to get flights & accommodation booked.

Many thanks for all your valuable help and advice, especially over the train tickets.

Correct about the 2 hours from Munich to Salzburg...it will take you over 2 hours form Salzburg to Hallstatt by train via Attnang-Puchheim...the most senic route is bus to Bad Ischl then train to Hallstatt but that will take longer...your plan to spend 2 days in Salzburg is a good one but you have to decide if Hallstatt is a viable day-trip factoring in there and back...a better use of your time might be to visit Berchtesgaden, Koenigsee and/or Eagles Nest which are just an hour from Salzburg...

Bear in mind coming back that it's an hour or so from Munich Hbf to the airport plus 2 hours from Salzburg so you may not have as much leisure as you think...

Thanks for that Jack - yes I wondered about the travel to Hallstatt just for a day trip, so we are now considering travelling direct from Munich to Hallstatt, & staying overnight in Hallstatt for one night instead.

The plan is as follows, but if you think we are pushing it I'd be grateful of feedback. Just trying to get as much in (ie 2 cities and some outdoor scenery). We would also consider Berchtesgaden instead of Hallstaat, as I agree, it's closer to Salzburg. I can plan the internal destinations (accommodation, trains, areas to visit etc) over the next few weeks, but I really wanted to know that it's all realistic before I book the flights ......

(Day 1) Arrive early AM Munich - train to Fussen and visit castle
Evening in Munich
(Day 2) Early morning train to Salzburg & on to Hallstatt
Rest of day and evening in Hallstatt
(Day 3) Most of day in Hallstatt, departing afternoon for Salzburg
Evening in Salzburg
(Day 4) Daytime in Salzburg before late afternoon train back to Munich
Evening & overnight in Munich
(Day 5) Day at leisure in Munich before late evening return flight home.

Seems to me you're pushing yourselves very hard there...you'll be in a different bed every night for 4 days and a lot of travelling as well...your alternative of 2 consecutive nights in each city in #7 might make more sense...unless your intention is to punish your husband for turning 50, of course!...

If you stayed 2 nights in Munich you can still go to Fuessen on the first day as with the Bayern group ticket the 2 of you can go all the way from the airport to Fuessen and use Munich public transport all day for €28...day 2 you can explore Munich...day 3 to Salzburg and depending on how you're feeling on day 4 you could strike out for Hallstatt or Berchtesgaden nearer to Salzburg...day 5 back to Munich and airport, all covered by another Bayern group ticket for €28...

That's what I would do in your situation anyway...seeing as you've never been to Munich it would be waste in my opinion not to dedicate one of your days to it...and lack of German won't be too much of a disadvantage...

Hi Jack
If you think that's pushing it, we are also considering as follows:
1 night Munich, 1 night Hallstatt, 1 night salzburg and 1 night Vienna (flying home from Vienna). Maybe this is too much?
I know we wouldn't have loads of time in each city, but we'd get to see lots of places in the time we have - we're both relatively fit, but don't want to kill ourselves though :)
I feel if there was anything we could leave, it would be Vienna, since I feel that can be a weekend break destination on its own.

I'm feeling that with flying into Munich, its a good chance to see Neuchwanstein - (I don't know when we'd get to see it again as it seems easiest to get there from Munich).
As I recently considered Chamonix for this trip (with outdoor activites such as hiking /cycling), I feel visiting Berchtesgaden or Hallsatt would still allow us to do something active. It seems my husband wants the city and I want more mountains - hence the trip trying to accommodate both. And then I feel I couldn't go so close to Salzburg without visiting it. Hence the idea of at least getting in Munich, Hallstatt/Berchtesgaden, Salburg.
I don't know what to do now, as we need to make a decision.

It's not really possible to advise you further but as you say Vienna is expendable in this plan...you really need a decent amount of time there...but if you decide to do that then probably better going Munich-Salzburg-Hallstatt-Vienna...

You can also fly from UK to Salzburg with Ryanair which would give you a breathing space and might even sometimes work out cheaper than changing your flights with Easyjet...

Would prefer to fly from Gatwick as its a trek to get to Stansted for us, so Easyjet better. I have decided to fly in to Munich, then out of Vienna 4 nights/5 days later. I plan 1 night Munich, 2 nights Salzburg (so we can have a day in the mountains) and 1 night Vienna, but this is totally flexible and could change - at least with the flights booked I can breathe and take my time now :) We may leave Hallstatt and stay the 2 nights in Salzburg and use it as a base to visit the Berchtesgaden national park instead, as its closer.

I know it seems we're not giving each place enough time, but we're very time poor this year so we have no choice but to try and squeeze as much in as possible. I hope we could come back at some point not too far to try skiing.

Can't help chuckling at the notion that it's a trek out to Stansted but you're going to flog yourself through 4 nights from Munich to Vienna...))

Best of luck with all this...maybe we'll hear back from you when it's done...

:):):)
You must think I'm mad - crazy English
It's either going to be fabulous or an arduous exhausting episode that leaves us wondering what the h*ll were we thinking! I will let you know how it goes late October.....:)

Thanks for all the advice

Well I thought I'd update you all on how the trip went! Flight to Munich no problems, and got a Bayern ticket & OBB ticket at the airport which covered us all the way to Vienna.

We checked in first as our room was ready, then headed off to Fussen. It was a fine trip on the first train (an hour) but the second train also took an hour, which was due to it be older, slower and stopping at many stations. On arrival in Fussen we took the bus to the town below Neuchwanstein, but had long wait for the bus to take us up to the castle. We managed to catch the 6ish train back to Munich and arrived back after 9 - it was a long trip and not sure if it was worth it, although the castle is lovely and we got to see plenty of countryside on the way :) We ate the best meal ever in Munich - I am sure that's the case despite how hungry we were....

We spent the next morning in Munich instead of heading straight off to Salzburg. I am glad we did as Munich is a lovely city, and the U-Bahn was so easy to use. We visited the Saturday market at Marienplatz before heading back to catch the 12.25 train to Salzburg.

The train to Salzburg was great - fast and warm and we stayed in the suburbs outside Salzburg in a lovely chalet-style hotel. It was only 20 mins bus journey to the hotel, but for the money was well worth it. Unfortunately it rained a lot that evening which was a bit miserable but we managed to walk around Salzburg and have a lovely meal.

The Sunday, the weather was very poor with mist on the mountains, and we undecided for ages about whether to head out to the Berchesgaten and Eagles Nest, before eventually giving it a miss due to the weather. This bit I am sad about, and there wasn't lots to do in Salzburg on a Sunday with everything closed. But there was a nice food/crafts market and we went up the funicular to the fortress and the Mirabelle gardens. Everything seemed expensive in Salzburg and we decided against paying in to see Mozart's house! To be honest, in the short space of time we had for our trip, we could have got away with just one night, instead of two, in Salzburg.

We got the train to Vienna on the Monday arriving just after lunch. We headed out straight away and saw the Schonbrunn palace, and then back to the city to see everything else. We spent a lot of time in the delicious coffee shops, and have fantastic meal of a massive schnitzel at Figlmueller restaurant. We had drinks and next morning breakfast at Cafe Central. We loved Vienna and spent the next morning sightseeing before catching the CAT train to the airport for the flight home.

All in all, we will go back to both Munich and Vienna at some point, as feel there's plenty more to see in both places. I wouldn't go back to Salzburg as we feel we've done it now.

Its a shame we didn't get out into the Berchesgaten (prob spelt wrong sorry) and after the Fussen trip we wouldn't have been up for heading out to Hallstatt. But the trip has given us a real taste of this part of Europe, as we'd never been before, and most importantly my husband thoroughly enjoyed it, although he was happy to leave Salzburg. The people everywhere were really helpful and friendly and we can't wait ot go back with more time on the next trip hopefully.

my husband thoroughly enjoyed it, although he was happy to leave Salzburg.

sc, glad it all worked out for you...pity about the weather in Salzburg but you probably did the right thing by staying in the city...think you might be a bit harsh on Sgb though...if conditions were better and you could explore the centre and environs a little more I'd say you'd have a different and more favourable perspective, perhaps...