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Hi All,

My girlfriend and I will be visiting Spain and Portugal in a couple months, with about a week's time set aside for portugal. We will be flying into Lisbon from Madrid on the morning of April 28, and will leave on the morning of May 6. We realize that we won't have a lot of time to stray too far from Lisbon, as we will have 7 full days plus the afternoon of 4/28. I certainly want to have 2-3 full days dedicated to Lisbon itself, with another 4-5 days to explore beyond the city.

We are an active couple in our early 30's so we are excited to explore on foot or on bikes if possible. Tentatively, we're thinking about Lisbon from 4/28 - 5/1, Sintra on 5/2, Coimbra on 5/3-5/4, and returning to Lisbon on 5/5. It seems the travel times are short, and the train routes fairly easy and inexpensive. For those with local knowledge, does this seem like a feasible route with 7 1/2 days?

I've read about Queima das Fitas in Coimbra, which I think may coincide with our time there. I've read that it starts on the first Friday in May (5/3 this year), but have also seen that it starts on 5/6 this year (the first Monday). Does anyone have any insight as to this? We are a young social couple that likes beer, music and making new friends, so is this a festival that we (tourists)should appreciate, or one that's better left for the local students to enjoy? The festival website is down right now, so my knowledge is pretty limited - what can we expect for the first couple days of the festival? If the festival doesn't in fact start until May 6, we'd probably rethink our route.

Upon arrival to Portugal, we'll have just spent time in Barcelona, San Sebastian, and Madrid so most of our time will have been in, or around large cities. With this in mind, we'll be wanting to diversify our experience as much as possible. At this point in the trip, we'll probably be less interested in "traditional" sightseeing (churches, museums, etc.), in favor of either extreme: A culturally and socially engaging environment with vibrance and color, or a sleepy, slow-paced romantic weekend in a quiet village with no agenda. If Coimbra won't provide the former in abundance, we'd probably prefer the later option. With this in mind, would skipping Coimbra in favor of spending a few days along the Atlantic coast provide a more diverse week in Portugal?

And finally, we are interested in spending a night or two in a very old, unconventional, and if possible an historic accommodation such as a converted castle, palace, unique guesthouse, monastery, etc. Would Sintra be the place to seek this out? We are willing to significantly expand our 70-100 EUR nightly lodging budget for a couple nights in a unique place.

I know I have a ton of questions, but any advice will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!

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Giantsteps,

The schedule you have is fine with the time available. I have not been to the Queima das Fitas, but it sounds like fun. If you get a bit tired of the festivities, catch the local bus to the Roman ruins at Conimbriga, which is an excellent site. When you get to the protected villa ruin at the end of the tour make sure you pay the 0.50 cents to get the fountains working, it is well worth it. Also go and see a Fado performance at aCapella, a converted church.

aCapella

I also would not be surprised if Fado performances were part of the festival itself.

If not Coimbra, why not try a Castle town like Monsaraz or Castelo de Vide?

And finally, we are interested in spending a night or two in a very old, unconventional, and if possible an historic accommodation such as a converted castle, palace, unique guesthouse, monastery, etc.

For the above request I suggest you try the Pousada website. Pousadas are converted convents or palaces or monasteries.

Pousada

Happy travelling


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Stav_ros: Thanks for the advice and recommendations! The Pousada website is exactly the kind of resource I was looking for and will certainly prove helpful in our search. I've already found so many excellent-sounding options on the website, the challenge now will be to narrow it down. In fact, many of the castles and villages in which these pousadas are situated look so enticing, it's crossing my mind to save Madrid for another trip to open up more time for the countryside.

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I tried a longer post but it wouldn't work - this is a test


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This is the long post

We have been to Portugal 3 times now (middle age couple). Every time we have been we have spent some time in Lisbon totalling 6 full days and we still have plenty more exploring to do. The first time (2006) it was for just 6 nights that we split between Lisbon and Evora (2-2-2). The second trip (2008) we spent 2 weeks travelling from Olhao in the Algarve (South end), via Coimbra to Porto in the Douro (North end). We used the trains for all our travelling. The train system is good if you want to concentrate on the West coast or West side of Portugal. There are also train services into the centre and East side of the country, from Lisbon to places such as Guarda, Castelo Branco, Elvas, Evora and Beja. These towns can be used as bases for further exploration of the region. There is also a train line along the Douro valley (from Porto to Pocinho), and along the Algarve coast (Lagos to Vila Real de Santo Antonio). These only run regional trains. Here is the English version of the website

http://www.cp.pt/cp/homeTimetable.do?lang=en

On our last trip (July 2010) we landed in Porto and travelled that day to Regua by train. We then used buses to travel south, staying at Viseu, Castelo de Vide, Estremoz, and Beja and finished in Lisbon. During this trip the only time we noticed tourists in any numbers was in a short stop in Evora on the way to Beja, and in Lisbon. While travelling through the centre we accounted tourists by the hand full rather than the bus load. There is a bus route from Braga (far north) to Faro (South coast). There are 2 buses a day starting at either end of the country in the morning and evening. The bus stops at about 20 places through the centre of the country. The website has just introduced an English version, but I don’t know how complete it is. I used the Portuguese version without any written Portuguese skills. We used this bus to travel between the destinations listed, except we had to change at Portalegre to get a local bus to Castelo de Vide, and it is a different bus route from Beja to Lisbon. Buses are the most convenient form of public transport through the centre and East side of Portugal. Above I mentioned some towns you can reach by train from Lisbon. You can also use buses from Porto or Lisbon (often with more services) to get to these towns and for travel between them buses are a better (or only) option.

http://www.rede-expressos.pt/default.aspx

For local buses in the Alentejo region use:

http://www.rodalentejo.pt/html/default.asp

There is plenty to see in Lisbon, definitely take a walking tour (get information at the Tourist Info), and go on your own No.28 Tram tour. You will see a lot of places not many tourists go to. The tourist info office has friendly staff ready to help. Lisbon is great for spectacular vistas. There are a number of lookouts, including the Castelo. The are numerous churches and museums, and Belem is worth a day on its own. If you have time, take a trip to Sintra. Instead of going to EuroDisney, you can see a real live fairy land. Be warned, it does rain there. There is still plenty to see inside the Palaces if it does rain. There are plenty of excellent restaurants in Lisbon, assuming you like sea food. There are two on the steps up to the Bairro Alto from Rossio that are designed for tourists, but the food is good and reasonably priced and the view up to the Castelo is brilliant.

Lisbon has hills, so if you want to party look at staying up the top of the Bairro Alto so you don't have to navigate any steps late at night, but beware the noise from bars, and dark alley ways. If you want to go to bed early and have a good sleep, stay in another district. In Lisbon the central Baixa area that is on the flat is a bit of a tourist trap. Certainly have a look at it and the Praca do Comercio at the South end, but don’t buy anything. You can pay 2-3 times for food and drink compared if you head up the hill on either side. Even the streets on the East and West sides have significantly cheaper restaurants and mini markets. If you use the Metro watch out for the pick pockets, they are very good. Look daggy with your back pack on your chest, scanning side to side. You won't be targeted. You can have some good voyeuristic fun watching someone else get done. When I was last there I could only find one laundry, Lave Neve on Rua da Alegria.
At the North East end of the Rossio look for the A Ginjinha bar, which is quite literally a hole in the wall (next to the hat shop). If you go in the morning you get real glass, in the afternoon it is plastic cups.

After that, if you are feeling a bit light headed, then wonder down to the North side of the Prac da Figueria and try the Casa de Bifana (possibly spelt wrong). Bifana is pork that is cooked in a shallow pan in wine and some herbs. Stand up at the bar and have a Bifana roll and some soup, and a glass of meniscus wine (when you see the glass you will know what I mean). That is eating local style.

If you are in Evora and plan to day trip it may be useful to hire a car. Day tripping by bus would be a bit drawn out from there and may require an overnight stop, especially to places like Monsaraz. You can also get to the prehistoric Megaliths and Dolmens in the region. Evora has enough sights for 2 full days on its own. Try and stay in the old walled town. Most of the other tourists appear to be day trippers so the crowd melts away at night.

While in Porto we took a day tip to Guimaraes and to Braga, both by train. Some people on this forum have reported that Braga is a bit bland, but I thought it had plenty of charm (and the Dom Jesus de Monte). Guimaraes feels more ancient and old worldly regal. Porto has plenty of sights as well – Churches, street scapes and great bridges and views from bridges, and of course there is the port tasting.

If you’re in Coimbra, make sure you catch the local bus to the Roman ruins at Conimbriga, it is an excellent site. When you get to the protected villa ruin at the end of the tour make sure you pay the 0.50 cents to get the fountains working, it is well worth it. The main sites of Coimbra will take a full day (and a half if you want to amble). Plan 2 days if you want to get across the river. Also go and see a Fado performance at aCapella, a converted church. This is the website: http://www.acapella.com.pt/pt/?lang=_en

Regua IS a bit bland. Having been there it would have been better to stay in Lamego which is 15 min by local bus (2euro each way) from Regua (and the train line). Having said that, the restaurants were good (great house red at cheap prices), and it is easy to get a beer. While there we had a day trip to Lamego and a travel day on the Douro valley train to Pochino (end of the line) and back (great views). We did it on a Sat in July and the train was full of family groups who were out for tastings and to stock up on wine. Make sure that you go all the way to Pocinho, BUT do not worry about looking at the town. We had a look at the dam and old bridge, but the lasting memory is of hot tar smell in the nostrils and our shoes sinking in the tar road (it was hot that day). The food available at the train station was quite good and the icy cold beers (Portuguese understand about ice cold beer) at 0.70 euro were the cheapest we have ever had on any trip to Portugal. On the way back the family groups got back on at Pinhao and were quite merry. They handed out all the food they had not eaten (it was foisted upon us, and we did inhale). Love those Portuguese. One of the unexpected joys of travelling.

Viseu has enough places of interest to occupy 2 slow days, a day trip to Guarda is worth the effort, and is a very pleasant place to stay. On Sunday nights the silver and gold fairy lights in the large trees in the Rossio are turned on and add a romantic ambience to the square. They also put on some sort of entertainment (we got ball room dancing).

Castelo de Vide is a sleepy old border fort town. You can walk it in one day, but we ended up staying 4 nights. The restaurant selection is limited, but we enjoyed all our meals, with a couple being very good. The views from the high battlements are brilliant. While there we took a cab to Marvao (another castle town) for the day. The trip there was 13 euro with the meter off and 14.5euro back with it on. Cheaper than hiring a car, and well worth the money. If you like small walled towns with old battlements that you can access, then both these places should be on your list.

Estremoz is surrounded by marble quarries, so the town uses it everywhere. All door frames and window sills are marble, as are the gutters. The town will take a day to see, and while there we went for a day trip to Vila Vicosa (by cab at 34euro return) and Elvas (by bus). Vila Vicosa is another marble town with the impressive Paco Ducal (palace). The palace armoury had the largest collection of small arms I have seen. The town itself is worth a wonder, and again we ate well (I like my vitals). Elvas is another border castle town with intricate fortifications and a spectacular Aqueduct. The old walled part of town is compact and can be explored in a day without rushing. Plenty of discount shops as well. Beja appeared to be all but forgotten by other tourists (in July!) and will keep you busy for a (slowish) 2 days. It would be a good base to explore places such as Serpa and Moura (we didn’t have time).We found it a very attractive and relaxed town, with a few lively bars.

Cost wise, relative to the rest of Western Europe, Portugal is a poor country, and may well be poorer still after the ravages of the GFC. Do not go there with a fist full of 100 euro bills. You will be speaking in an economic language that the locals don’t understand. When we were there the primary note was a 5. The biggest note you can possibly use is a 20, but smaller shops and museums etc in the country towns will not be able to change even that. The banks will issue a mix of 5, 10 and 20 notes in their machines, but if the bank is open I would recommend getting the 20’s changed. All the hotels (bar one) that we stayed at accepted credit cards, but not all restaurants. Spend up big, you will not notice it.

When we were in Lisbon in July 2010 in restaurants we paid 30-35 euro for starters, 2 mains, a bottle of house red and 2 beers. When we were in the smaller towns the average was 25 euro. Oh and the meal will fill you up. They always set the table with plates of appetizers (olives, cheese, dodgy looking packaged fish paste) and bread. I have never had the problem with being charged for what we didn’t use. If you eat it you pay couple of euros. We always go the cheese because it is bloody good. We discovered that the olives they put out aren't ancient, but have been crushed to release the pip. I have never tried the fish paste (and probably never will). I have always eaten the seafood for mains. You can get red meat; it is just that the seafood is really good. The food is cooked and served simply (none of this grandiose plate presentation). We always got the house red because it is cheap and perfectly palatable. I can not comment on deserts because I was always too full from the main. Tipping is not expected, and can sometimes be hard to do. We have received the change we left on the money tray as we left the restaurant on several occasions (and this is an Aussie talking).
They make fantastic cakes, pastries, tarts etc so watch out, you can gain weight quickly. A 330mm bottle of beer was mostly 0.80-0.90c. You can pay up to 1.20 in Lisbon. Any more than that and you are being ripped, such as the tourist rip off zone in the Baixa district on the flat in Lisbon. Bottled water is very cheap in the minmarkets - 0.20 for 1.5Lt I think. You can get it cheaper by the 6-pack.

In the past I have booked all our accommodation on the web before we came. I didn't want to waste time chasing up hotels. On the last trip I discovered that I could have got hotel information and even assistance in booking through the local tourist office. We were mostly paying 45 euro/night for a double with ensuite, but from what I saw we could have cut that to 30-35 euro. We were not watching our spending, and averaged 140euro/day for all costs - hotel, transport, food, sites, entertainment etc (in Lisbon we paid 70/night and in Beja we splurged at 140/night to stay in a Pousadas). We ate at a restaurant almost every night, and would have a few drinks afterwards. We could have easily cut that by 20 euro without becoming monks, and if you factor in the cheaper hotel rate we could have had a great holiday on 110 euro a day for 2 (at 2010 prices). Remember we didn't watch our spending.

I have found the Portuguese to be open friendly people. Try and learn some of the lingo, you will be appreciated for it. One niggle though; if you are a smoker understand that botting is a national pastime.

The paving in Portuguese cities and towns is fabulous but deadly when wet (they use a lot of coloured cobble stones and marble in fluid or geometric patterns, look at my avatar). If it rains do not wear runners.

Try also e-mailing the tourist info in Portugal. They will reply with good info

http://www.visitportugal.com/Cultures/EN-US/default.html

Try this website

Spotted by locals - Lisbon


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I will try smaller posts - This is information I have posted before about trips in 2006, 2008, 2010

We have been to Portugal 3 times now (middle age couple). Every time we have been we have spent some time in Lisbon totalling 6 full days and we still have plenty more exploring to do. The first time (2006) it was for just 6 nights that we split between Lisbon and Evora (2-2-2). The second trip (2008) we spent 2 weeks travelling from Olhao in the Algarve (South end), via Coimbra to Porto in the Douro (North end). We used the trains for all our travelling. The train system is good if you want to concentrate on the West coast or West side of Portugal. There are also train services into the centre and East side of the country, from Lisbon to places such as Guarda, Castelo Branco, Elvas, Evora and Beja. These towns can be used as bases for further exploration of the region. There is also a train line along the Douro valley (from Porto to Pocinho), and along the Algarve coast (Lagos to Vila Real de Santo Antonio). These only run regional trains. Here is the English version of the website

http://www.cp.pt/cp/homeTimetable.do?lang=en

On our last trip (July 2010) we landed in Porto and travelled that day to Regua by train. We then used buses to travel south, staying at Viseu, Castelo de Vide, Estremoz, and Beja and finished in Lisbon. During this trip the only time we noticed tourists in any numbers was in a short stop in Evora on the way to Beja, and in Lisbon. While travelling through the centre we accounted tourists by the hand full rather than the bus load. There is a bus route from Braga (far north) to Faro (South coast). There are 2 buses a day starting at either end of the country in the morning and evening. The bus stops at about 20 places through the centre of the country. The website has just introduced an English version, but I don’t know how complete it is. I used the Portuguese version without any written Portuguese skills. We used this bus to travel between the destinations listed, except we had to change at Portalegre to get a local bus to Castelo de Vide, and it is a different bus route from Beja to Lisbon. Buses are the most convenient form of public transport through the centre and East side of Portugal. Above I mentioned some towns you can reach by train from Lisbon. You can also use buses from Porto or Lisbon (often with more services) to get to these towns and for travel between them buses are a better (or only) option.

http://www.rede-expressos.pt/default.aspx

For local buses in the Alentejo region use:

http://www.rodalentejo.pt/html/default.asp


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Part 2

There is plenty to see in Lisbon, definitely take a walking tour (get information at the Tourist Info), and go on your own No.28 Tram tour. You will see a lot of places not many tourists go to. The tourist info office has friendly staff ready to help. Lisbon is great for spectacular vistas. There are a number of lookouts, including the Castelo. The are numerous churches and museums, and Belem is worth a day on its own. If you have time, take a trip to Sintra. Instead of going to EuroDisney, you can see a real live fairy land. Be warned, it does rain there. There is still plenty to see inside the Palaces if it does rain. There are plenty of excellent restaurants in Lisbon, assuming you like sea food. There are two on the steps up to the Bairro Alto from Rossio that are designed for tourists, but the food is good and reasonably priced and the view up to the Castelo is brilliant.

Lisbon has hills, so if you want to party look at staying up the top of the Bairro Alto so you don't have to navigate any steps late at night, but beware the noise from bars, and dark alley ways. If you want to go to bed early and have a good sleep, stay in another district. In Lisbon the central Baixa area that is on the flat is a bit of a tourist trap. Certainly have a look at it and the Praca do Comercio at the South end, but don’t buy anything. You can pay 2-3 times for food and drink compared if you head up the hill on either side. Even the streets on the East and West sides have significantly cheaper restaurants and mini markets. If you use the Metro watch out for the pick pockets, they are very good. Look daggy with your back pack on your chest, scanning side to side. You won't be targeted. You can have some good voyeuristic fun watching someone else get done. When I was last there I could only find one laundry, Lave Neve on Rua da Alegria.
At the North East end of the Rossio look for the A Ginjinha bar, which is quite literally a hole in the wall (next to the hat shop). If you go in the morning you get real glass, in the afternoon it is plastic cups.

After that, if you are feeling a bit light headed, then wonder down to the North side of the Prac da Figueria and try the Casa de Bifana (possibly spelt wrong). Bifana is pork that is cooked in a shallow pan in wine and some herbs. Stand up at the bar and have a Bifana roll and some soup, and a glass of meniscus wine (when you see the glass you will know what I mean). That is eating local style.


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Part 3

If you are in Evora and plan to day trip it may be useful to hire a car. Day tripping by bus would be a bit drawn out from there and may require an overnight stop, especially to places like Monsaraz. You can also get to the prehistoric Megaliths and Dolmens in the region. Evora has enough sights for 2 full days on its own. Try and stay in the old walled town. Most of the other tourists appear to be day trippers so the crowd melts away at night.

While in Porto we took a day tip to Guimaraes and to Braga, both by train. Some people on this forum have reported that Braga is a bit bland, but I thought it had plenty of charm (and the Dom Jesus de Monte). Guimaraes feels more ancient and old worldly regal. Porto has plenty of sights as well – Churches, street scapes and great bridges and views from bridges, and of course there is the port tasting.

If you’re in Coimbra, make sure you catch the local bus to the Roman ruins at Conimbriga, it is an excellent site. When you get to the protected villa ruin at the end of the tour make sure you pay the 0.50 cents to get the fountains working, it is well worth it. The main sites of Coimbra will take a full day (and a half if you want to amble). Plan 2 days if you want to get across the river. Also go and see a Fado performance at aCapella, a converted church. This is the website: http://www.acapella.com.pt/pt/?lang=_en

Regua IS a bit bland. Having been there it would have been better to stay in Lamego which is 15 min by local bus (2euro each way) from Regua (and the train line). Having said that, the restaurants were good (great house red at cheap prices), and it is easy to get a beer. While there we had a day trip to Lamego and a travel day on the Douro valley train to Pochino (end of the line) and back (great views). We did it on a Sat in July and the train was full of family groups who were out for tastings and to stock up on wine. Make sure that you go all the way to Pocinho, BUT do not worry about looking at the town. We had a look at the dam and old bridge, but the lasting memory is of hot tar smell in the nostrils and our shoes sinking in the tar road (it was hot that day). The food available at the train station was quite good and the icy cold beers (Portuguese understand about ice cold beer) at 0.70 euro were the cheapest we have ever had on any trip to Portugal. On the way back the family groups got back on at Pinhao and were quite merry. They handed out all the food they had not eaten (it was foisted upon us, and we did inhale). Love those Portuguese. One of the unexpected joys of travelling.

Viseu has enough places of interest to occupy 2 slow days, a day trip to Guarda is worth the effort, and is a very pleasant place to stay. On Sunday nights the silver and gold fairy lights in the large trees in the Rossio are turned on and add a romantic ambience to the square. They also put on some sort of entertainment (we got ball room dancing).

Castelo de Vide is a sleepy old border fort town. You can walk it in one day, but we ended up staying 4 nights. The restaurant selection is limited, but we enjoyed all our meals, with a couple being very good. The views from the high battlements are brilliant. While there we took a cab to Marvao (another castle town) for the day. The trip there was 13 euro with the meter off and 14.5euro back with it on. Cheaper than hiring a car, and well worth the money. If you like small walled towns with old battlements that you can access, then both these places should be on your list.

Estremoz is surrounded by marble quarries, so the town uses it everywhere. All door frames and window sills are marble, as are the gutters. The town will take a day to see, and while there we went for a day trip to Vila Vicosa (by cab at 34euro return) and Elvas (by bus). Vila Vicosa is another marble town with the impressive Paco Ducal (palace). The palace armoury had the largest collection of small arms I have seen. The town itself is worth a wonder, and again we ate well (I like my vitals). Elvas is another border castle town with intricate fortifications and a spectacular Aqueduct. The old walled part of town is compact and can be explored in a day without rushing. Plenty of discount shops as well. Beja appeared to be all but forgotten by other tourists (in July!) and will keep you busy for a (slowish) 2 days. It would be a good base to explore places such as Serpa and Moura (we didn’t have time).We found it a very attractive and relaxed town, with a few lively bars.


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Can't seem to post anything else so will try later


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Stav_ros: Wow, once again thank you for the detailed post! There's SO much good, practical info there.

After another long, hard look at the calendar, I think we're going to pass on Coimbra to spend less time getting around, with more time to enjoy what we can see. We want to split our week in Portugal between Lisbon and smaller villages in the countryside/on the coast. Focusing on the more immediate Lisbon area, here's the current idea:

4/28: Land in Lisbon Sunday morning, go directly to Sintra (unsure on whether we want a car yet, or take train). Stay in Sintra at least Sunday night.
4/29: Sintra area - take trolley to Praia das Macas. Either stay in Praia das Macas or back for another night in Sintra.
4/30-5/1: ADVICE NEEDED:
Option 1: Remain in the Sintra area, staying in Sintra, Praia das Macas, or Cascais, leaving time to take it slow and further explore the area west of Lisbon.
Option 2: Head north to Ericeira or Peniche for a night, then on to Obidos for a night.
Option 3: Take the train to Tomar for 2 nights.
Option 4: Stay in Sintra one of the two nights, add the other to Palmela or Lisbon.
Option 5: None of the above. Do this: _________.
5/2: Drive or train to Palmela - Staying in Castelo de Palmela.
5/3-5/5: Lisbon for Friday - Sunday night. This leaves all day Saturday and Sunday in Lisbon.
5/6: Fly home.

I know we could easily spend at least 4-5 days in Lisbon alone, but we really want to enjoy some time in quieter places more off the beaten path. We're a younger and very active couple, but I'd love a few days to just take in the scenery with little agenda, plenty of time to take pictures and get to know the local food and wine. That said, is the above itinerary leaving insufficient time for Lisbon?

We know we want at least a night and whole day in Sintra. The areas around Sintra sound like there's much to do and see so we don't want to rush, but I'm not really sure how much of our week to spend there.

Obidos and Tomar both look magical as well, but I know we'll burn a good amount of time getting to and from. Are these not to be missed?

Palmela - I don't know much other than the Castelo de Palmela looks amazing and we want to stay there. I'm perfectly okay with there being little to do other than take in the scenery, but would love recommendations for nearby sites. Wine tasting??

Finally - would a car be helpful or a hindrance when outside of Lisbon? (We know we don't want one in the city itself). I understand the train system is excellent, but would having a car cut down on travel times and enable us to see more?

Thanks again!!

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