Amsterdam coffee shops

Going back to tony_b's original question, which seemed like a fair point of discussion to me...

Yes, I would agree that there is a movement to make drug tourism a thing of the past. I'm living just outside of Amsterdam and it seems as if the Netherlands is experiencing something of a political/social pendulum swing, back to the right.

There have been tightening of all kinds of rules over the last 5 years, as far as I can tell, and curbing the availability of drugs is one of them.

Interestingly, even coffee-shops must deal in shadowy territory when buying from their suppliers. Because more than 2 ounces per person is technically illegal, unloading weekly or monthly deliveries and carrying them into the coffeeshops is also illegal. Once these deliveries are actually on the premises, they become legal again. Odd. Although police tend to turn a blind eye to any vans parked out the back of a coffeeshop, it is still risky business for anyone who grows/supplies marijuana.

I used to think that because the Dutch government condoned legal sales in approved outlets, they would also have a set-up for the growth and supply. Turns out I was wrong.

So yes, if the current government are able to pass all its proposed changes, Amsterdam will definitely lose its status as the world icon for 'soft' drug tourism.

It's interesting to see the reaction of some foreigners when their perceived "right" to use drugs in our country is threatened.

The authorities have all the right - or even the obligation, I'm tempted to say - to clamp down on drug tourism as soon as it becomes a social problem. Most of them have enough common sense to realize that Amsterdam isn't the major trouble spot in the country, and that closing all coffee shops there will only push drug tourism back into an uncontrollable illegality.

Amsterdam will definitely lose its status as the world icon for 'soft' drug tourism
So what if that would happen? Really, what's wrong with telling foreigners "if you only come to visit our country to get stoned, we don't want you here"? Have you ever met a Dutch person who is proud of Amsterdam's image of "world icon for drug tourism"? I haven't; I did meet a lot of people who despise drug tourists, though. Just like that "oh, you're from Holland, that's great man! I love your drug policy!" crap gets boring very soon.

I'm not a hard-liner, and honestly I personally couldn't care less if coffee shops exist or not as long as they don't bother me. I do, however, find the association Amsterdam/Netherland = icon of drug tourism quite offensive.

Aribo, the following is just for you because I know I am going to get a reasoned response, if you care to respond that is. I genuinely wasn´t aware that Amsterdam was considered as a world icon for drug tourism and I fully realise that the term was not yours. That sounds a bit eurocentric to me. I would have thought that there are plenty of other places around the world that are better qualified for that title.

On the other hand, I find it perfectly understandable when Dutch people become irritated by those tourists who equate the Netherlands with soft drugs and nothing else. We´ve seen plenty of TT posts by people like that over the years; apparently they´re not interested in anything that the Netherlands has to offer beyond getting stoned.

ditto, tones.

it seems as if the Netherlands is experiencing something of a political/social pendulum swing, back to the right
I'm not sure if you (imogenzedder) will return to this thread, but if you do, I'd be curious to hear how you came to this sweeping conclusions. I understand from your other posts that you're a Kiwi traveling around Schengen, so I assume you haven't been "living" in the Netherlands for a long time, nor had access to Dutch media over the past 10 years or so and are merely basing your "expert" view on second-hand information.

I'd be very careful before I'd make any sweeping judgements about another country, especially if - forgive me if my assumption is wrong - you have to rely completely on English-language media and locals giving an English summary of the situation.

And in response to Tony: I also wasn't aware that Amsterdam is viewed by some as a "world icon for drug tourism" - frankly speaking, if that image is that wide-spread outside the Netherlands, that would be all the more reason for the authorities to take corrective measures. I don't think many Dutch citizens would mind if potheads like the ones I saw the other day, sitting on a bench smoking weed in someone's private frontyard (smoking dope on the streets in general is basically as civilized as farting at a dinner table), would be discouraged from visiting. Other than that, most Dutch don't seem to care about the coffee shop situation at all, as long as it doesn't affect their daily lives.

Aribo, if you are going to reprimand someone for their "sweeping generalisations" at least have the courtesy to give us a run down on the reality.

For interests sake, what do you think about people eating a hash cake in public? Is it the consumption of a narcotic that you find repulsive or the actual smoking of it?

Personally I find smoking cigarettes to be a much less civilised and far filthier habbit than weed. Of which I do neither.

Greyhound, I would need a few hours to write down my (personal) views on the social changes in the Netherlands in the past ten years or so - a topic that I do find very interesting, by the way - and I doubt many people here would care reading them, if the mods don't delete my post in the first place because of its political, not travel related contents. In short: while there may be some truth in imogenzedder's statement about the "swing back (not sure what s/he means by "back" though - back to when?) to the right", I think it is far too simplistic, as the situation is much more complicated in reality.
Needless to say, if imogenzedder gives me a couple of specific examples, I'm willing to share my thoughts on them. I just can't pretend to write a full "rundown on reality".

For interests sake, what do you think about people eating a hash cake in public?
I couldn't care less, really. Eating space cake doesn't bother other people, as far as I know.

Is it the consumption of a narcotic that you find repulsive or the actual smoking of it?
The smell makes me sick, nowadays at least. That said, I'd be a hypocrite if I'd reprimand others for using narcotics.

Personally I find smoking cigarettes to be a much less civilised and far filthier habbit than weed
I won't judge on anyone smoking in private, be it tobacco or weed. Bottom line for me is, one should keep in mind that there may be others nearby who don't like the smell of whatever you're smoking, don't share your fondness for loud R&B or hiphop, don't want you walking around their street late at night singing English football songs, whatever.

coffee shops in Amsterdam
Oktoberfest in Munich
it is just all buisness, one more legal than the other, but the legal one is harming more people than the ilegal one!

it seems as if the Netherlands is experiencing something of a political/social pendulum swing, back to the right

Aribo I'm afraid I agree with this - despite the SP "win" in the election before last... and I have been living in the Netherlands and do follow the news and politics here. I'd say I hear less anti foreigner crap than a few years ago but that might be because every time someone started talking about allochtonen I'd drop "I'm an allochtoon" into the conversation.

As for the "drug capital" status of Amsterdam. About five years ago Michael Porter did some consultancy work for the Gemeente of Amsterdam. I was at the presentation of the results. Their research found that the most common associations with Amsterdam were drugs and the RLD. They found that the tourists coming to Amsterdam were low spenders - backpackers etc. They found that someone coming here for a two day conference spent way more than someone coming here as a backpacker. So the gemeente has introduced a deliberate policy to "improve" the image of Amsterdam overseas and attract bigger spending tourists. Since then the whole "I amsterdam" campaign started, various regulations came into place regarding terraces/bars etc, money has been spent on museums and tourist services. In addition there is rumoured to be pressure on the coffee shops - fewer licences given or renewed apparently.

So yes, it is business, and someone has realised that the soft drugs trade isn't that great as business for the city as a whole.

True, I've only been living in NL for a few months (have my residency, not just passing through), and haven't had access to a decade of Dutch media.

Like any newcomer to a country, I'm spending a lot of time trying to get a good sense of my new home: Gleaning my information in scraps wherever I can - conversations with anyone who cares to share an opinion, and as much English & Dutch media as I can understand (my Dutch is still very limited, but I'm learning).

Unfortunately, generalisations are a necessary evil when discussing an entire country - and certainly when discussing a topic like the legalisation of drugs, and access to them.

In this case, I guess I see the tightening of rules on coffee-shops as a bit of a metaphor for the tightening of all the rules... Having recently dealt with the Dutch immigration authorities, there are some not-so-attractive bureaucratic patterns emerging that remind me, sadly, of the right-wing political shift that dominated the Australian political landscape recently.

In other words, making life really tough for anyone (short-term visitor or longer-term resident) who isn't 'the right kind' of person, and throttling the main income base of Amsterdam coffeeshops... Most patrons of coffeeshops on the 'Dam are foreign, not local - barring foreigners is possibly an indirect way of barring the coffeeshops themselves.

Perhaps it is just a business decision. Or perhaps its part of a broader movement. Either way, the times they are a changin'