Itinerary help

Welcome to the Western Europe Branch hessian ... fair way from New Zealand!

Just to provide tabular summary, something like this:

Venice (2 nights)
Verona (1)
Lake Como (6)
St Moritz Train (1)
Portofina (4)
Manarola (4)
Lucca (2)
Siena (2)
Venice (1)

Total nights: 23 ... does that seem about right, broadly? If so, a couple of comments:

• become familiar with the Italian rail site: http://www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en
• we visited Verona just as a through-stop, and found our five hours was good
• there's a left-luggage facility at the station
• we preferred Manarola as a village, plus it's a bit more "central"
• the easiest walk from Riomaggiore remains closed, I understand
• I assume there is a left-luggage facility at Pisa Centrale
• but note that Pisa S.Rossore Station is much closer - five-minute walk
• both Lucca and Siena are beautiful - San Gimignano is too, but a little more complicated to get to
• we stayed in Como, and visited Bellagio and Menaggio across the water - both of which were very attractive, although Varenna is often suggested too
• check the Bernini Express for access from the Lake Como region, and then return to Milan / Genoa etc ... and even the Glacier Express

As you are probably aware, fast trains (with a reserved seat) can be significantly cheaper booked in advance - now is not too early to start looking at prices and purchases.

I know you're coming off a cruise, but travel as light as possible ... getting on and off the many trains in your itinerary can be cumbersome with heavy luggage, as there can be steps into carriages, and internal level changes involved, plus station steps.

Overall, I think your itinerary has good shape, although with the potential for places to be busy. The only additional suggestion would be (since you're in Venice) is to look at the Dolomites ... we stayed in Bolzano in 2017 on almost exactly your dates, and used trains and buses to Val Gardena and Cortina d'Ampezzo ... and it was very attractive.

Thank you, surprised to see your name come up here! My nights in Venice at the start aren't included in my 3 weeks but can add two other nights somewhere else. DO you know of any quiet place in Ital Riviera? I had thought of the Dolomites but thought it might be too far to really see properly in that time frame. I guess the lakes and CT are my priority but I have always found that while I enjoy the big tourist highlights my favourite spot tends to be a little off the beaten path. Hard to achieve, I know, in Italy. DO you now if it is possible to base myself in Genoa and do day trips to places like Portofino?

Hi - no - can't answer your additional questions with any first-hand experience.

The Italian Riviera (from Nice to Genoa) looked very attractive by train, but can't attest to how busy the towns are.

Genoa was nice for a walk-through, but you might do better to stay closer to Portofino, although the train to S. Margherita Ligure-Portofino is pretty short (16-51 minutes, depending on station), then presumably a local bus to Portofino itself.

The Dolomites were lovely, but it took us a lot of effort, in combinations of trains and buses, to get places. If I were doing it again, I'd consider renting a car for four days and roaming a bit more thoroughly, and efficiently.

BTW ... a typo above - it should be the Bernina Express, and includes a bus into Italy. Menaggio might have the best rail and bus connections to Tirano (Bernina Express bus terminal).

Thanks!

Having a bit of a look at it ... you could take the Bernina Express from (say) Menaggio to St Moritz or Chur, then the Glacier Express to Brig (into Zermatt for a night or two if you had the time - it's outstanding) and then from there a regular train to Genoa via Milan. Nice trip ... but might not be especially cheap!

Ummm, very interesting, food for thought!

If you want to travel from Lake Como to Tirano to take the Bernina Express route then I'd opt for going from Varenna because it's on the train line. Varenna is lovely and also has ferries to other spots around the lake. You don't have to take the Bernina Express trains with their panoramic windows unless you want to. Ordinary trains travel the same route more frequently and for slightly less cost. But the Bernina Express at all is quite in the other direction to your other destinations and doesn't fit all that well. If super keen, then I'd check to whether it is possible to travel Varenna - St Moritz or further north (by train) - then take the bus to Chiavenna (sp?)on the Italian border - train back to Varenna. I'm not sure that this could be done in one day without checking but very scenic. Personally, I'd want to get out and explore the area rather than sit on a train/bus all day though.

It also sounds as though you might be better flying home from Milan than Venice (or Genoa if there are flights from there). Another option would be Lucca area - Liguria area - Como area - fly home from Zurich. But I'd only do that if really keep to see Switzerland and I think you'd be spreading yourself too thin without dropping somewhere else.

Sorry if that's rambling but it sounds like you're exploring ideas at the moment. T

But the Bernina Express at all is quite in the other direction to your other destinations and doesn't fit all that well.

Quite true, but the Bernina / Glacier combo (or as you say, regular trains on the same routes) might by the OP's only realistic shot at seeing the Swiss Alps with relatively little logistical stress - given that she is committed to Lake Como in any case.

Catching the Gornergrat mountain railway up "close" to the snow-covered Matterhorn was one of the most spectacular days I've had in Europe. The Mont Blanc cable car from Chamonix is in the same class, but much more difficult to get to.

Thanks both of you. I am indeed only exploring ideas so that I can work out when/where to fly home.