Family living in Ireland

Hi there,

My wife and I (well mostly myself at this point) have this pipe dream of living in Ireland.

I'm in IT (Business Analyst) and she's a primary Catholic school teacher here in Calgary. We have two little ones (under 3).

We're thinking of renting our place out here and renting some place in Ireland for a couple of years just to try something different.

While this is a pipe dream, you have to start somewhere, so I wanted to get the Thorn tree take on which cities might be a good fit for employment, families, access to other parts of Ireland, Irish culture (I realize it's changed significantly but hey change is inevitable).

Any information on what I can expect to make as a BA in the IT field and what my wife as a primary school teacher could make would be welcome as would information regarding cost of living (let's assume a 3 bedroom house/rowhouse in whatever city/town you think would be best, typical grocery costs, petrol etc...)

My family heritage is Irish and it would be fun for my girls to live in their ancestral homeland if only for a few years.

Finally, I know I may get flamed as it is an horrendously vague info request but it's early and mee brain is soft.

I hope it gets sharper as the day moves on.

Thanks!

J.

Hello, This is my first time posting on this board so you may not a 'typical thorn tree veiw'!!

I moved to Northern Ireland 4 years ago. My husband is from here but has lived all over the UK. It is a truly beautiful & friendly place over the whole country. Does have its probelm areas but where doesn't!? :-)

I have no idea how much either of you could earn here (I would say probably similar to most of UK but that probably doesn't help you!! I know that currently Primary school teaching jobs are hard to come by in the North but not so hard in the South. Dublin & Belfast would probably provide you with most job opportunities but working from home is becoming very popular. May also be worth looking at smaller cities such as Londonderry, Cork, Galway. As your wife is a catholic teacher there will be more opportunites for her in the South I should think. Dublin is an incredibly pricey city to live in. Property is exceptionally expensive (deffo on a par with London). The whole of Ireland has experienced a property boom in the last 5 - 10 years. A 3 bed, small terraced house in a not so nice area is from about £150000 up. A nice 3/4 bed semi will be anything from £200000 to a half a million. THese prices don't include Dublin. Check out www.propertynews.com for a better idea.

I think that a lot of health benefits & things are better in the North but the South may be easier to get into. If you or your wife have.had an Irish Grandparent then I think that your family would be eligible for Irish passports but I'm currently looking into this so am not sure if the rules have changed.

Fuel is cheaper in the South, booze is cheaper on the North.........

It's hard to give a cost of living as it can vary so much. You can get by on very little if you're careful or spend a lot if you have it...... Groceries for the week for me, my husband & son are probably about £70 but I could do it for £30 if I really budgeted.....

www.nijobs.com might help you a bit with job research. Or google.ie for Ireland & google.co.uk for Northern Ireland.

In case you don't know: Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom & The Republic of Ireland is it's own country. Hence why I say North & South to distinguish!

Hope something there helped!
Liz

I think you would find Dublin very expensive and it might be harder for the kids to settle in. Clare or Cork would be nice and both have good base of industry. Re: your wife's job, I think you need to speak fluent Gaeilge to be a primary school teacher, but I may be wrong...

I would be thinking along the same lines as ~2.

As a BA in IT you may find a good paying job, but a 2 bedroomed apartment in Dublin is about E1400 at the minimum.

Galway and Cork are however slightly cheaper. Even though people keep talking about a downturn in the number of jobs available, I haven't seen this (however I'm in a science area), so as long as you are flexible, you should find a job easily.

Your wife won't be able to get a permanent job unless she does an Irish course, but she may be able to substitute.

The job sites I find most useful are totaljobs.ie and loadzajobs.ie

Good luck

So to teach primary school in Ireland you need to learn Gaelic? What if you just want to substitute?

Before you get too carried away with the details of relocation, think first about the red tape. Do you hold an Irish passport or from another EU country? If you do, you don't need a visa or work permit to live and work in Ireland (North or South). But if you don't, you have to get them and it won't be easy or straightforward, though a good IT qualification and experience will be a plus (IT field isn't as booming as it was a few years ago). As for your wife, to get a full-time primary teaching position, she will first need to have her qualification verified, and take steps to acquire Irish language skills - both spoken and written. She will be tested on this, and will involve a school placement in Irish-speaking areas (Gaeltracht). To work as a temporary supply teacher (as it's called in Ireland and UK), I don't think she needs Irish but verification of qualification by Teaching Council (or teachers' professional body in Northern Ireland - General Teaching Council for Northern Ireland) is still obligatory.
With your Irish background, you may be eligible for Irish citizenship - check out Irish Embassy in Ottawa site.

Re: speaking gaelic. I'm sure you wouldn't need to speak Irish to work in a School in the North unless you chose a specialist Irish speaking school. But as said above I don't know how well qualifications cross over to here from Canada.....

Irish is compulsory for all primary school students. Hence why its compulsory for teachers to be educated in it. However some of it is IRish culture and history etc.

I don't think your wife would be able to do much sub'ing as she would need to teach Irish for this also.

I must say that I'm a little shocked.

I thought the primary language in Ireland was English. I mean here in Canada, French is also a primary language and is taught in schools until Grade 7 or 9 (can't recall it's been awhile) but even then, there are only one or two teachers in an entire school that can speak French (probably more as you move into Ontario and especially Quebec) and French is certainly not a required language for all teachers (again, except in Quebec).

How much is Gaelic spoken in Ireland (as a primary language before English?). Is school taught in Gaelic? what about in Dublin? I have a hard time believing that courses in Dublin are spoken to immigrants from all over the world in Gaelic.

Regardless, if it's a requirement, it's a requirement.. I'm just shocked is all.

This will give you the details of Irish Language Test required of all those trained overseas and wanting to achieve full recognistion as primary teacher in Ireland.

The thing is, as a primary school teacher, you basically teach all subjects to your class, and as Irish is a compulsory subject for all pupils, you are normally required to teach it. But in your case, wanting to live in Ireland for a limited time, you may not need to teach Irish (with the agreement of the school) and just get another teacher to take Irish lessons. Or as a supply teacher, you just let it be known that you don't teach Irish but can still cover all other subjects in the curriculum.

#10 has summed it up very well.

What I would say to you is that English is, of course, the dominant language in Ireland, however it is the policy of the State to promote the Irish language as the first national language which, in reality, means that it enjoys the same status as English.

Incidentally, you ought to have picked up at this stage that we don't generally refer to it as Gaelic. It is called Irish.

The primary schools have always been considered key to the national effort to revive and foster Irish. What you have been told by a number of contributors is absolutely correct; you will not get a permanent job as a primary teacher in Ireland (meaning the Republic) without attaining the required level in Irish.

I work as a secondary teacher where things are different. Since 1999, it is no longer necessary for secondary teachers who do not speak Irish to pass a specific test in the language. However, since the overwhelming majority of teachers are Irish, they all did Irish at school anyway.

Overall, the standard of Irish among the general populace is not very good but there is evidence that the situation is improving. Many parents now send their parents to Irish-speaking schools which are often seen as the next best thing to private education, particularly where that option is not available. There appears to be some evidence of parents choosing this option as a way of escaping from some of the difficulties now being experienced in schools with high numbers of immigrant children who have difficulties with English. This obviously presents difficulties for integration down the line, but I guess it's ancillary to the issue we're discussing here. Certainly, Irish is experiencing something of a renaissance among middle-class young people such as those I teach in Dublin.

With particular regard to your point on the Irish language and immigrants, let me say this. I, personally, am very well disposed to the diverse Ireland we now have, but no country can be expecting to sacrifice its right to its own heritage just because many new arrivals have no realistic prospect of mastering the language. People migrating voluntarily to a different country have a responsibility to inform themselves about its way of life and to respect that whilst there. Following on from that, the native population should show tolerance and respect to the legitimate expression of the cultural heritage of newcomers.

As a person of Irish descent, it surprises me a little that you weren't more informed about all this. Perhaps there is a lesson in this for you. Don't make the decision to come here through some form of misguided nostalgia for the 'old sod' of your forebears. Besides, you still haven't responded to the person who asked if you're actually entitled to come here in the first place, i.e. do you already have Irish or EU citizenship. I naturally wish you the best of luck in the decision you make.<hr>

Sorry about the minor typos there. That should of course be parents sending their children to schools, and expected rather than expecting in the second last paragraph. Wish there was an edit function here. Any chance, moderator?

Barry,

My last name is Irish. My father is also of German descent. My mother is of Serbian and Ukrainian descent. I have lived in Canada my entire life.. as did both my mother and father and most of my grandparents. I believe my Irish ancestors arrived in North America during the potato famine in the 1880's so I am Irish QUITE removed as are most people on this planet of "Irish" descent.

My knowledge of Ireland is based on pictures and stories and yes, perhaps a misguided notion of some place better, or at very least different. While the circumstances are certainly different, it is not completely unlike my forefathers over one hundred years ago as they left Ireland for places like Canada. How can you know everything about every country. Let's not forget that this is simply a thought right now..My post on Lonely Planet is the first hint of a discussion, not the last step in emigrating to a foreign country.

That being said,

It makes sense to me that Irish be taught in schools. Culture and heritage are important. I was simply shocked to learn that ALL primary school teachers were required to speak it.

Regardless, as I said in a previous post, a requirement is as such and we will consider our options as we dive deeper into the possibility of moving there.

J.

It may be worth taking the family on an exploratory family holiday first self catering with a hire car. It'll help you get a grip on the likely costs, where you might want to locate to, what the job situation is like, go talk to some teaching agencies or general employment agencies for yourself, etc etc - one of you can go off for the day and do some investigating whilst the other entertains the kids. You'll rapidly realise the cost of fuel, by self catering you'll realise the cost of groceries as well (plus it would be the cheapest way of doing the holiday as well anyway.

You can also gauge how the kids react to it all - do they like the weather (it's very changeable in Ireland), the food etc. Are they going to throw a strop cos they can't get their favourite cartoon show/sweets/drink etc. How many friends do they have at home - will they cope with being taken away from them or are they still a bit yong for that? Will they miss the snow in the winter (eg skiiing, snowboarding etc - you have no chance of that in Ireland). In fact, you'd be lucky to see snow full stop during some winters.

I wouldn't emigrate with a family without first checking it out in person. We had some show here in the UK last year about people who emigrated to Australia having never been there in their life - I guess they just liked the look of neighbours or something - and often found it very very hard going.

Agreed with #14 - try to do a two week trip or more here first and determine what you like. Ideally, rent a holiday apartment or cottage rather than staying in a hotel and stay in areas that you would consider living in. My wife and I moved over from America two years ago - our job situation was sorted but adjusting to simple lifestyle differences took some time. As #14 points out, there are loads of very little things that take some getting used to and at first, I didn't think my wife would want to stay the duration of our assignment (two years). Those little things are what you deal with in day to day life so they sound minor but end up being very important. With children, it might be that much harder and some places that you have romantic visions of may not be what you think in reality.

As it turns out, we didn't like where we lived when we first got here (central Dublin) but have since moved to the suburbs and now my wife doesn't want to leave! Go figure.......... :-)

Based on what you've told us about your background, it seems likely that you don't have an automatic right to settle in Ireland. One of your grandparents would have to have been an Irish citizen or eligible for Irish citizenship and even then you'd have to let bureaucracy take its course. If you are eligible for any other EU citizenship, then you could settle here based on that (with the temporary exception of Romania and Bulgaria as these nationalities do not currently have an automatic right to enter the labour market here).

As you work in IT, you stand a good chance of getting a green card as a qualified migrant. With regard to your wife's position, does she have a degree in a subject area which is taught in secondary schools? She could retrain as a secondary teacher once here.

I think you need to realise that advice from people such as myself is certainly not meant to dissuade you from coming here or deride the ideas you have. Rather, we Irish know that a lot of people out there have a rather idyllic and sanitised view of this country which could lead to real disappointment when the reality of living here - or anywhere else in the world! - kicks in. Much of the 'Irish culture' that is found abroad is actually an invention of emigrant communities who themselves allowed a sanitised image of Ireland to develop in their minds and needed to foster certain ideas and activities in order to distinguish themselves from others and perpetuate some form of Irish identity in their adopted homelands. Back home, something as 'typical' as Irish Coffee was invented by a barman in Shannon Airport in the 1940s (50s?) specifically aimed at the passing trade of wealthy American transit passengers. Put simply, a drink that many assume to be quintessentially Irish is perhaps the best example of the invention of a stage-Irish identity. That is not to say that you won't find something distinctive here, but it is important to reflect on the history of the Irish people and the huge role of emigration in perpetuating certain national myths.

BarryHennessy, as usual your posts are tip top class! Bravo Sir.

Hi.

Just wanted to also compliment barryhennessy on some superb responses (with the ecxeptoin of soem typos!). Spot-on, man.

Canadian geezer, I hope you're not put off by the stuff re passport/visa and the requirement for primary teachers to have Irish (or "Gaeilge", as it is known in Irish), but these are the stark realities.

I hope you get your plans together and live the dream. I lived abroad, and enjoyed it, but I do think there's no craic like living in Ireland.

Gernerd

PS. for those of you who think it's ok to wet the bed, please be aware that you can only flip a mattress once.

Blushing!

To all those that have replied...

I do so very much appreciate the guidance you've provided. I couldn't agree more - moving abroad is not an easy life and getting to that point is often even more difficult.

I will plan a trip with my family to Ireland to see if it's a good fit for us.

For what it's worth, assuming most of you are living in Ireland or of Irish descent, my single pre-conceived notion of Ireland and it's people which is that the Irish are among the most friendly and helpful has been confirmed.

Thanks!

Jay

PS: Irish Coffee isn't truly Irish??? Next you're going to tell me that most Irish people don't have a pet Leprechaun and if THAT'S the case, I surely will not be relocating my family. ;)

Crei8jay
Your ancestors may have come from the 6 counties, Northern Ireland.
I believe your wife could do a year's "teacher exchange" with and teach primary school in Northern Ireland.
Google the Ministry of Education in Belfast and inquire there. I know of some Canadian teachers who have done this in the past.
Google the Belfast Telegraph and look at job listings for yourself.

From what I have heard form my relatives in Ireland (North and South) you'll be able to reconnect with your eastern European heritage also. And it wouldn't hurt to brush up your Polish! I joke but the whole island has changed immensely these last 10 years.

Your deam is an exciting one. I hope you can manage it.

Read as many books as you can on Ireland, and by Ireland, I mean both Eire and Northern Ireland.
Maybe Thorntree posters ( Barry Hennessy) could give you some suggestions?
God knows Ireland has enough wonderful wonderful contemporay novelists and short story writers, whose work would give you a taste of today's culture.

Actually, I would probably suggest the books by the popular economist and social commentator, David McWilliams.

Whilst his work is definitely controversial, and he's a bit of a quote-whore and a pop-economist, there's no denying his intelligence and the conviction with which he presents his case. It would certainly be worth reading what he has to say.

I'm not such a fan of McWilliams (though he looks gorgeous!) for the very same reasons Barry mentioned.

I would recommend "The End of Irish History" by Colin Coulter and Steve Coleman. It's a more serious account of the state of modern Ireland (imo) with essays on almost every aspect of Irish society.

An ordinary travel guide would do for a start as well, where at least one learns that the Great Famine wasn't in the 1880s...
And you'll get an overview over regions.

Hmm I think McWilliams might scare him off with his breakfastroll men and discussions on people's obsession with decking! Would dispel any romanticism anyway!

Great posts by the way Barry, your stage Irishman comment sent me off thinking about John Bull's Otheer Island by Shaw, but I digress!

I just wanted to add a few websites that might help you see what your salary expectations would be and how much renting/buying a house would cost:

www.irishjobs.ie<BR>www.monster.ie<BR>www.jobs.ie<BR><BR>and for accomodation: www.daft.ie<BR><BR>One other point I might also make (and I know this is just an idea at this stage) is to think about your children's education. Putting them in Irish schools for a few years then moving back to Canada could give them a distinct disadvantage as although I am no expert there would be distinct differences in the two education systems. In subjects like history they would have spent a few years learning about Irish history (especially primary school, you don't do much bar Irish history!) and be behind on the Canadian syllabus when they returned. Also depending on their age they might need to learn Irish (I think if you are over 12 when you move over you are exempt from learning Irish, I'm sure someone can verify?). If French is taught as a second language in Canada they would be behind on this also. All this depends on their age, if they are younger it would not be such a worry but if they are in secondary school it could be very tough for them say having to do the Junior Certificate then moving back to Canada and not having a clue of the syllabus.

Good luck with your plans

Hi there!

I would say Galway would be the perfect location to set up. It's a nice sized city, with everthing a young family might need. There are some nice areas to live around the city. You can check www.daft.ie for rental information. It's probably the best website to use. There are a lot of IT companies in or around Galway as well, so you should find a job no problem....but get in there quick, before the economy topples!!! :)

Also as some people mentioned above your wife will need a qualification in the Irish language to teach in a primary school here. As well, there are so many qualified primary school teachers and not enough jobs to match, it's a highly competitive field to get in to. But i suppose your wife will have a few years experience on her side, which will be an advantage.

I do agree with Barry's post above. Many people have this idealistic, perfect view of Ireland and the culture. You might want to come over here on a holiday first and see how you like it, before moving lock stock over and only being disappointed. Sorry this is sounding quite negative...but some of our culture has been killed by the celtic tiger!

Jobs sites you should check:
www.monster.ie<BR>www.jobs.ie<BR>www.fas.ie<BR>

And it looks like paddypackpacker is back talking to me after we kind of crossed swords on the emotive issue of Shannon a while back. Suddenly love has broken out on the Ireland board! I think I'll just go and hug a few random passers by. Thanks for the nice comments everyone...really appreciated!

yeah, it's all forgotten. we can't hold grudges forever can we....even though, i think i was proven right on the whole matter! :)

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>yeah, it's all forgotten. we can't hold grudges forever can we....even though, i think i was proven right on the whole matter! :) <hr></blockquote>

Oh you Irish! I love you just for that attitude! ;-))))

(that's why I never fell out of love with Himself ...)

here are the websites I used to find job & flat in Ireland :

job website : www.thejob.ie<BR>& to find accomodation : www.daft.ie<BR><BR>

yeahhhhhh