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Hey Rossam, my fathers side are very "Basque looking" and I do have friends from Connemara (clifden to be exact) that look Spanish. Coincidence? Possibly? Interesting what you say though. Do you have a link for that current data? Genuinely interested. DNA strand link to Chad and Cameroon etc is very interesting. But of course humans did move north from Africa.

I think if I was to show you around Connemara you will see for yourself the Basque likeliness in many people I know. Myself! Well I take after my mothers side, fair haired, blue eyed and sallow skinned. We have roots in Carlingford so maybe some Norwegian Viking or possibly Anglo-Norman? Won't be getting a DNA test so no worry! I'm not too dogmatic on it. :)

Thanks for the post "Blood of the Irish" information. Appreciate whatever links you may have on this subject.

Just to add that I'm not trying to be confrontational but you are talking up findings by the visit of American researchers who were here in the 1930s? Now I'm sure their data is possibly the most inaccurate of all. 1930's technology after all by people whom I doubt very much had great heart and soul in what they were doing here?

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There are many places to see in Ireland. You have to plan your trip first so that everything goes to plan. Places like Giant's Causeway, Guinness Storehouse, Newgrange, Glendalough, Irish National Heritage Park, Fota Island Wildlife Park, Bunratty Castle and the Marble Arch caves are worth seeing. Best of luck for your trip.

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Thank you very much for your tips and for the very interesting discussion.

To clarify: yes, we have nine nights in Ireland, and I take for granted we will only hit the road after the second one. I assume we will have to go to Galway and environs OR Kerry, since doing both is not feasible if we want to minimally enjoy the places we visit.

By the way, getting from the Ulster to Galway or Kerry is a bit of a stretch I guess, is there any stop you'd recommend along the way? I had thought of the Slieve League area.

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Stiofan75
The National Geographis site below might give you some useful info on soem of the terminology.
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/lan/en/population.html
What you refer to as a DNA strand is called a Haplogroup which in it's simplest terms is a group of individuals (I'll refer to males but you have a similar situation with females) who share the same common ancestor at some point in time and this sharing is defined by having a similar SNP (Single Nucleotide Polymorphism) which is more or less a mutation. In the case of males genetic information for the haplogroup is carried on the y chromosome, as this passes directly from father to son (until a male has no children or only daughters) in an unbroken line.
The following links should give you more info along with a "family tree' of the male haplogroups. The one in question when talking about Ireland is called R1b.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplotype
The early studies linking Irish males (also Scottish, Welsh and to a lesser extent English and Norwegian) to Basques really hinged on two things; R1b being dated to around 15,000 years ago and Ireland not having any inwards moving of people since the first inhabitants came in after the ice age ended.
Now haplogroups can be broken down into further subgroups, the easiest way to explain it is that certain markers (as far as I can tell certian locations on the y chromosome) are looked at and it is determined how often the acids in DNA are replcated (this is called STR analysis), if individuals have a similar pattern of replication then more than likely they are more closely related. Early studies looked at something like 6 or 12 markers, to put that in context commercial companies which do tests for individuals offer 37 markers as standard and can go up to 111. That just shows how the science progressed, also more people are getting tested which increases the databases.
The first person to put forward the idea of the similar ancestry was as far as I can tell Stephen Oppenheimer in his book Origins of the British (although I think the National Geographic crowd did aswell). In simple terms the arguement went like this; the region near the current Basque region is thought to have been habitable during the ice age, Basques were always though of as a very old aboriginal population (probably due to their unique language which isn't related to any other known language), Basques have over
90% headcount of R1b, Irish, Scottish and Welsh have anyhting between 70% to 85% so it was very easy to see a link.
As the science progressed the dating was called into question, the link below goes over it. Basically the groups the Basque region and the Isles fall under were thought to be around 6,000 to 8,000 years old (the origin is thought to be somewhere in the lack Sea Caspian Sea area.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/08/r1b-founder-effect-in-central-and.html
Also more people got tested and R1b was found to be widespread but not as much as the Basque region, ireland etc
Also the idea of Basques being an aboriginal population fell by the way side (Sardinians seem to be the closest to a relic population)
http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/basques.shtml
The graph below shows a family tree of R1b, the main one in Ireland is L21 (bottom right) and the main one for the Basques is M153, so whenever those mutations went their separate way is when the two groups last shared direct male line ancestry, this is thought to be around 6,000 to 8,000 years ago.
http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/RTree-2009.JPG
L21 is thought to have originated in North West/Central Europe about 4,000 years ago and made it’s way to Ireland via North France and then Britain. About 8,000 years ago R1b seems to have exploded across Western Europe possibly with the spread of farming. At the bottom right of the screen you’ll see something called M222; this is what they referred to on Blood of the Irish when they talked about a gene linking people with Niall of the Nine Hostages. Around 1,500 or 2,000 years ago a male lineage really took of in Ireland probably due to the social set up of chieftans having many wives. It’s estimated that around 25% of males in the North West of Ireland carry this. It turns up in surnames associated with the UiNiall and UiBrien dynasties and there’s a very good chance it actually originated in North England or Scotland.
It seems with Blood of the Irish they were just unlucky that the science snowballed and they ended up being out of date.
The below link looks at the R1b found in Africa
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/01/r-v88-and-migration-of-chadic-speakers.html

The website below is worth signing up for and browsing through the search function if you have time as I really just gave a brief overview. The whole thing is also a WIP and the science is advancing; about 10 years ago it cost millions to sequence the human genome, in a few years it could be a $1,000 and we mightn’t even have the capability of processing/analyzing the data yet. Anyway big picture wise it seems the population of Ireland is more or less the same as the old celtic iron age invasion idea but happening in the bronze age with some possible military elite invasions in the iron age (like M222 above) and we are more similar with British people genetic wise.
http://dna-forums.org/

Below is a link to a project currently taking place looking at the DNA of local irish populations if you’re interested in taking part.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/99258621/Irish-DNA-Atlas-Project-Newsletter---Vol-1-No-1
The reason I mentioned the 1930’s study is that they looked only and physical appearance and I think it is a simplistic way of trying to tie populations together, for every irish person you could find that looks like a Basque I’m sure there are many instances of those who don’t or irish people that look like others. One of the reasons I think there is a mystique about dark features in Ireland is that it goes against the typical pasty red head stereotype. I’m sure people in Connemara or Donegal (where I’m from) having to endure working outdoors fishing and farming may have something to do with it. I don’t buy the Armada story as it’s sometimes presented as a couple hundred men spread from Antrim to Cork all of a sudden changed the physical appearance of the Irish, there is a actually a similar story in some Scottish Island where some of the survivors ended up. I’m sure a few may have hung around plus given the fact that Portuguese and Basque fishermen were fishing of the coast of Canada before Columbus reached America you may have had a few encounters.

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liilak
Derry to Slieve League, approx two hours.
The nearest town to Slieve Leage is Carrick or tiny village is Teelin (both work isf you type it into the "To" tab of the site below). Some great scenery if you drive west to Gleencollumcille also.
http://www2.aaireland.ie/routes_beta/

Edited by: Rossam

Edited by: Rossam

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Thanks a lot, Rossam. Yes, I did have Carrick in mind as our base for Slieve League, should we finally make it there.

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Rossam, Excellent response! Thanks for info and links. I may after all take part in the local dna gathering! Also the dna forums look interesting. :)

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(If this post shows up twice, my apologies. It appears that the internet ate it the first time.

Any of the towns along Donegal Bay would be a nice place to stay for a night. Also, if you're not doing Kerry, it would be possible to spend some extra time and do the Glencolumbkille/Adara loop which is a tourist staple of that region for a reason.

I did a couple of mock itineraries and wrote one up, but I'm too lazy to retype it all. If you'd like to see them, PM your email and I'll send the spreadsheet.

If you really have your heart set on Kerry (which I can totally understand), you'd be better off picking some place futher south to break up the trip, possibly even pushing on to Galway (which makes for a long day in the car but from Donegal to Kerry would be a longer day).

Are your friends really set on Belfast and Derry? Because just Belfast could be done as an overnight trip from Dublin on days 3/4, then you could pick up your car and head to Kerry on the 5th day which would give ample time to explore the Kerry region. (Train or bus for the return trip to Belfast would be a much better option than driving, in my opinion). Having said that, my favourite part of Ireland is the North-West Coast and this option doesn't let you see any of it.

Good luck with your planning :)

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Londonderry, well, that's a matter of contention...notice l used both as l can be quite a diplomat sometimes

In that case, might be better to stick with Derry...that way you're only annoying approx 10% of the population...any arguments and just say you meant Stroke-City...that'll gain you kudos with both sides...))

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in Derry, both the bogside murals and a walk in one of the areas with loyalist mural could be if interest. also, at the Tower museum there's an exhibit concerning Spanish armada ships which wrecked near the mouth of the river Foyle, as well as material about the history of Derry.

if you or your friends have interest in music, or even if you don't, hope you'll include time for listening to a session or two, or a more formal concerts, whilst you are in Ireland. in Derry, Peadar O'Donnell's is one choice, also the Gweedore. in Belfast, Culturlann MacAdam O'Fiach on the Falls Road is the Irish language cultural center for west Belfast, loads of interesting stuff usually going on there, tourist information point as well, and a cafe too. in Dublin Cobblestone and McHugh's have authentic sessions, Oliver St John Gogarty more tourist oriented. in Galway, Tigh Coli, Tigh Neachtain, Roisin Dubh

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