Family living in Ireland

The thing is, as a primary school teacher, you basically teach all subjects to your class, and as Irish is a compulsory subject for all pupils, you are normally required to teach it. But in your case, wanting to live in Ireland for a limited time, you may not need to teach Irish (with the agreement of the school) and just get another teacher to take Irish lessons. Or as a supply teacher, you just let it be known that you don't teach Irish but can still cover all other subjects in the curriculum.

#10 has summed it up very well.

What I would say to you is that English is, of course, the dominant language in Ireland, however it is the policy of the State to promote the Irish language as the first national language which, in reality, means that it enjoys the same status as English.

Incidentally, you ought to have picked up at this stage that we don't generally refer to it as Gaelic. It is called Irish.

The primary schools have always been considered key to the national effort to revive and foster Irish. What you have been told by a number of contributors is absolutely correct; you will not get a permanent job as a primary teacher in Ireland (meaning the Republic) without attaining the required level in Irish.

I work as a secondary teacher where things are different. Since 1999, it is no longer necessary for secondary teachers who do not speak Irish to pass a specific test in the language. However, since the overwhelming majority of teachers are Irish, they all did Irish at school anyway.

Overall, the standard of Irish among the general populace is not very good but there is evidence that the situation is improving. Many parents now send their parents to Irish-speaking schools which are often seen as the next best thing to private education, particularly where that option is not available. There appears to be some evidence of parents choosing this option as a way of escaping from some of the difficulties now being experienced in schools with high numbers of immigrant children who have difficulties with English. This obviously presents difficulties for integration down the line, but I guess it's ancillary to the issue we're discussing here. Certainly, Irish is experiencing something of a renaissance among middle-class young people such as those I teach in Dublin.

With particular regard to your point on the Irish language and immigrants, let me say this. I, personally, am very well disposed to the diverse Ireland we now have, but no country can be expecting to sacrifice its right to its own heritage just because many new arrivals have no realistic prospect of mastering the language. People migrating voluntarily to a different country have a responsibility to inform themselves about its way of life and to respect that whilst there. Following on from that, the native population should show tolerance and respect to the legitimate expression of the cultural heritage of newcomers.

As a person of Irish descent, it surprises me a little that you weren't more informed about all this. Perhaps there is a lesson in this for you. Don't make the decision to come here through some form of misguided nostalgia for the 'old sod' of your forebears. Besides, you still haven't responded to the person who asked if you're actually entitled to come here in the first place, i.e. do you already have Irish or EU citizenship. I naturally wish you the best of luck in the decision you make.<hr>

Sorry about the minor typos there. That should of course be parents sending their children to schools, and expected rather than expecting in the second last paragraph. Wish there was an edit function here. Any chance, moderator?

Barry,

My last name is Irish. My father is also of German descent. My mother is of Serbian and Ukrainian descent. I have lived in Canada my entire life.. as did both my mother and father and most of my grandparents. I believe my Irish ancestors arrived in North America during the potato famine in the 1880's so I am Irish QUITE removed as are most people on this planet of "Irish" descent.

My knowledge of Ireland is based on pictures and stories and yes, perhaps a misguided notion of some place better, or at very least different. While the circumstances are certainly different, it is not completely unlike my forefathers over one hundred years ago as they left Ireland for places like Canada. How can you know everything about every country. Let's not forget that this is simply a thought right now..My post on Lonely Planet is the first hint of a discussion, not the last step in emigrating to a foreign country.

That being said,

It makes sense to me that Irish be taught in schools. Culture and heritage are important. I was simply shocked to learn that ALL primary school teachers were required to speak it.

Regardless, as I said in a previous post, a requirement is as such and we will consider our options as we dive deeper into the possibility of moving there.

J.

It may be worth taking the family on an exploratory family holiday first self catering with a hire car. It'll help you get a grip on the likely costs, where you might want to locate to, what the job situation is like, go talk to some teaching agencies or general employment agencies for yourself, etc etc - one of you can go off for the day and do some investigating whilst the other entertains the kids. You'll rapidly realise the cost of fuel, by self catering you'll realise the cost of groceries as well (plus it would be the cheapest way of doing the holiday as well anyway.

You can also gauge how the kids react to it all - do they like the weather (it's very changeable in Ireland), the food etc. Are they going to throw a strop cos they can't get their favourite cartoon show/sweets/drink etc. How many friends do they have at home - will they cope with being taken away from them or are they still a bit yong for that? Will they miss the snow in the winter (eg skiiing, snowboarding etc - you have no chance of that in Ireland). In fact, you'd be lucky to see snow full stop during some winters.

I wouldn't emigrate with a family without first checking it out in person. We had some show here in the UK last year about people who emigrated to Australia having never been there in their life - I guess they just liked the look of neighbours or something - and often found it very very hard going.

Agreed with #14 - try to do a two week trip or more here first and determine what you like. Ideally, rent a holiday apartment or cottage rather than staying in a hotel and stay in areas that you would consider living in. My wife and I moved over from America two years ago - our job situation was sorted but adjusting to simple lifestyle differences took some time. As #14 points out, there are loads of very little things that take some getting used to and at first, I didn't think my wife would want to stay the duration of our assignment (two years). Those little things are what you deal with in day to day life so they sound minor but end up being very important. With children, it might be that much harder and some places that you have romantic visions of may not be what you think in reality.

As it turns out, we didn't like where we lived when we first got here (central Dublin) but have since moved to the suburbs and now my wife doesn't want to leave! Go figure.......... :-)

Based on what you've told us about your background, it seems likely that you don't have an automatic right to settle in Ireland. One of your grandparents would have to have been an Irish citizen or eligible for Irish citizenship and even then you'd have to let bureaucracy take its course. If you are eligible for any other EU citizenship, then you could settle here based on that (with the temporary exception of Romania and Bulgaria as these nationalities do not currently have an automatic right to enter the labour market here).

As you work in IT, you stand a good chance of getting a green card as a qualified migrant. With regard to your wife's position, does she have a degree in a subject area which is taught in secondary schools? She could retrain as a secondary teacher once here.

I think you need to realise that advice from people such as myself is certainly not meant to dissuade you from coming here or deride the ideas you have. Rather, we Irish know that a lot of people out there have a rather idyllic and sanitised view of this country which could lead to real disappointment when the reality of living here - or anywhere else in the world! - kicks in. Much of the 'Irish culture' that is found abroad is actually an invention of emigrant communities who themselves allowed a sanitised image of Ireland to develop in their minds and needed to foster certain ideas and activities in order to distinguish themselves from others and perpetuate some form of Irish identity in their adopted homelands. Back home, something as 'typical' as Irish Coffee was invented by a barman in Shannon Airport in the 1940s (50s?) specifically aimed at the passing trade of wealthy American transit passengers. Put simply, a drink that many assume to be quintessentially Irish is perhaps the best example of the invention of a stage-Irish identity. That is not to say that you won't find something distinctive here, but it is important to reflect on the history of the Irish people and the huge role of emigration in perpetuating certain national myths.

BarryHennessy, as usual your posts are tip top class! Bravo Sir.

Hi.

Just wanted to also compliment barryhennessy on some superb responses (with the ecxeptoin of soem typos!). Spot-on, man.

Canadian geezer, I hope you're not put off by the stuff re passport/visa and the requirement for primary teachers to have Irish (or "Gaeilge", as it is known in Irish), but these are the stark realities.

I hope you get your plans together and live the dream. I lived abroad, and enjoyed it, but I do think there's no craic like living in Ireland.

Gernerd

PS. for those of you who think it's ok to wet the bed, please be aware that you can only flip a mattress once.

Blushing!