Rate the discount airlines...Please

Sorry, pressed send by mistake! Campiano is nearer to Rome than FCO, even thoughg FCO is easier to get to by train.

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<hr>Cost of seat £0.00 (yes zero) each way, cost of tickets including tax and charge for credit card £54.96 now you go figure who is making the most money out of this deal... and I doubt a penny of it will be spent wisely by Messrs Brown, Darling et al.<hr></blockquote>

The tax take on that is ten pounds or less. The balance goes to Flybe, who think that "taxes and charges" sounds better than "air fare".

Sometimes I think that more established airlines have paid people to grumble on Lonely Planet about cheap fare airlines.

Or maybe it is just a place of pretentious snobs.

Each cheap fare airline I have tried was at least fine each time, often very good.

For example, I haven't a clue what apapa in #12 is talking about: "massive difference in quality" between Ryanair and another airline I have used.

I have preferred Ryanair to Aer Lingus at times, and at times the opposite.

The seat room, only on some planes, may be slightly more with Aer Lingus or other operators. I don't see what a massive difference could be. With Ryanair you pay for the food and drink, which is what you expect for a cheaper ticket (services don't grow on trees) and it is good and I like that.

On Aer Lingus you get a small plate of food and a drink. Where the prices are similar, then, yes, of course, Aer Lingus is better on those occasions, and despite what I wrote in #9, the prices are usually more cheap enough to make a good difference, even if less rel budget prices are seen today.

Regarding geniality of the cabin crew, I have always found Ryanair staff to be fine, sometimes not smiling as much as some other airlines, but that is all a matter of taste. Different staffs are instructed in different ways. This is not a "massive difference in quality". It is slightly noticeable, if that, and can be easily to the preference of the traveller. That we have the option of budget flights is great. And that more frequent flyers have the options of two slightly different modes of service is fine.

#16 - I'm no more lucky than anyone else and I'm certainly not romantic when it comes to dealing with airlines of whom I have had much experience over 30 years of travel, business and social, including plenty of bad experiences (none with Ryanair yet though).

I'm realistic and my comments are based on my direct experiences of Ryanair and those of my two employees who live in Ireland and whose costs we monitor closely. We also monitor timing and reliability since they have to be sure of arriving at a job in time, often at short notice.

With all due respect, I suspect I have much more experience of this airline than you do. With all the negative publicity surrounding Ryanair, it's not as if people can say they aren't forewarned anyway, should something go wrong.

Ciampino for example, is very handy in some circumstances, as Dara points out, and allows our guys to save about an hour of faffing about when working in Southern Italy as it is much quicker to collect luggage and get a rental car and is then right on the A1 for heading south.

I have no particular brief to defend any airline but I am concerned about the distorted picture being put about which is not helpful to prospective travellers. Your comments are not unusual unfortunately, they have practically become received wisdom, and deserve further scrutiny:

1. "Any savings they make go to their profits as well as to the customers".
- of course they make a profit, unlike some of their competitors who try to match their fares. Their margins are relatively thin though and they rely on volume, gained by discounting, and reliability - better than most - as well as paring down services, to maintain profits. Do you really care, as a customer, when choosing an airline, about the company's profits?

2. And no matter how cheap the flight, if it doesn't get you there/loses your luggage/changes times at the last minute, and then gives you no comeback whatsoever, it's a rip-off.
- If it doesn't get you there ("there" being the point-to-point destination airport, as is made clear, not onward travel) Ryanair's policy to give a refund but not compensation for other difficulties. Show me a budget airline that is any different. Even flying BA on a full fare ticket costing many times the Ryanair fare, you can be delayed up to six hours (or longer on long haul flights) without compensation, as long as they get you to the stated destination eventually. Anything else is down to "customer relations" which is built into the fare structure of a full-service airline.

I'd be interested to hear of any cases where any point-to-point budget airline has lost luggage due to its own negligence. Baggage handlers are employed by airports, not airlines. Having had lost luggage with BA (I mean lost, not just delayed) I can tell you that they pay only the tiny statutory amount and you have to chase the rest from your insurance, same as you would with a budget airline. I have frequently had delayed luggage with BA and have never received ANY compensation. And unlike budget airlines, BA employs baggage handlers at Heathrow directly, so it is their responsibility.

Changes times at the last minute - I don't know of any budget airline which will compensate you for changed times.

A "rip-off" is when you don't get what is stated in the terms and conditions of your fare, not when you don't get what you imagined you would get.

3. "but what it really means is that those in this world with less money should expect to be treated badly and not complain."
"those in this world with less money" are precisely who have benefited from budget airlines like Ryanair .
"Treated badly" seems to be very subjective when it comes to airlines and depends on expectations.

The message of all this is: when using budget airlines, study the conditions and have realistic expectations

Just to show that there is no post on this branch that can't be turned into an anti-Aussie rant.

top stuff iday! "it's not us whingeing pointlessly about Ryanair, it's all those Aussies and Canadians"

I'm sorry #24, but why can't people use it like that? When I've used Ryanair, for example to fly to Dublin, it's a bit like getting on a bus, albeit with a lot of queuing and the rest of the faffing around you have to do. Jump on, grab a seat, fly, get off. Surely that is the whole point of "budget" airlines.

We joke about the Americans "doing" Europe, but at least they get off their backsides and do it rather than talk about it. I'd much prefer to see 5 European cities in a week than not see them at all. And what is wrong in expecting them to be reasonably on time and your luggage to arrive at the same time as you do.

As I said before, I've used them a lot and haven't had any problems - yeah the odd delay, but I've been delayed more often with BA than I have with all the budgets put together - anyway, Mrs H doesn't mind short delays, it gives her more time to spend in duty free buying yet more perfume and bloody sunglasses...!!!

airlines of whom I have had much experience over 30 years of travel, business and social, including plenty of bad experiences (none with Ryanair yet though).

#23 Well then you can't possibly comment on what happens when Ryanair messes up, can you? God almighty. Wake up!

Tell us what happened to you then. No repeats of what you've heard, what happened to you?

Tell us what happened to you then. No repeats of what you've heard, what happened to you?

Sure. STN- Perpignan last year. Flight 'couldn't land' because of bad weather - odd, as other airlines were at the time - 'not authorised to waste fuel circling', a better explanation perhaps? - diverted to Montpellier, where the Ryanair office was deserted. No information/back-up at all. Can you picture the scene? And no, it doesn't 'happen with other airlines', most of whom maintain some sort of airport presence. Eventually (after three hours) a Ryanair person arrived and a coach was ordered, and turned up eight hours after we landed. I later heard that the outgoing passengers at Perpignan had to wait two days for a flight - because, of course, Ryanair has no agreements with other airlines and would certainly not stump up the money for an alternative flight. Phone calls at the time and later (and emails) went unanswered. And I mean unanswered. See the website I mentioned above for further examples.

Thank you. This sort of information is far better than undetailed rants. People need to be aware that cheap fares don't pay for huge back-up organisation on the ground, and the small regional airports used by budget carriers can't conjure up staff and buses etc at short notice.

Furthermore, cheap airlines keep costs down by negotiating very tight landing slots and turnarounds so are more easily disrupted. This model is followed by almost all budget airlines and isn't unique to Ryanair

When bad weather hits, it can mean that landings are spaced out much more, so that only a third of the scheduled flights may land in a given day, as happened at Heathrow last winter. The fact that other flights can land isn't proof of evil intentions by an airline that doesn't.

But, yes, it does happen with other airlines - and no, they don't all maintain some sort of presence, especially in regional airports, and especially if they only have one flight slot every day or couple of days.

I would be just as mad as you in the situation you quoted, but: It even happens with full fare airlines, especially if you have to fly from/to a relatively remote regional airport (as I do )where it's hard to get spare planes quickly and most airlines don't have their own staff.