25 day Itinerary review / suggestions / help - lycian way & istanbul

My first post at Thorntree - although i have been a frequent visitor the past few months. It's been a great source of information - especially for folks like me who work in Kabul - where guidebooks are hard to come by..

I will be travelling to Turkey - for the first time - this year from 24 April to 19 May. I have worked out a tentative itinerary with information gathered from the web. I would appreciate if you guys could help me work on it a bit...

I am interested in culture, beaches and adventure. I don't want to travel to many regions in the country - and Turkey is BIG. So I am planning to spend a lot of time in one region. I will be travelling on budget - hoping to manage the 25 days in under 2500 USD - this includes doing my Open Water.

Below is the itinerary. I am giving very less time in Istanbul - coz, am sure to visit Turkey again and Istanbul may be the gateway again

Day 1 Arrive in Antalya from Kabul via Dubai & Istanbul - settle in
Day 2 Explore Antalya
Day 3 Visit Perge & Aspendos
Day 4 Explore Antalya
Day 5 Transfer to Olympos + explore Olympos
Day 6 Hike Mt. Tahtali
Day 7 Explore Olympos
Day 8 Hike to Adrasan from Olympos
Day 9 Hike to Gelidonya - camp at the lighthouse
Day 10 Hike to Karaoz
Day 11 Transfer to Myra
Day 12 Hike Myra to Cayagiz
Day 13 Transfer to Kas
Day 14 Explore Kas
Day 15 Paragliding, Kas
Day 16 Day trip Patara and return to Kas
Day 17 Day trip Xanthos and return to Kas
Day 18 Scuba Diving, Kas
Day 19 Hike to Cukurbag
Day 20 Transfer to Bodrum
Day 21 Transfer to Selcuk
Day 22 Ephesus + Pamukkale, Selcuk
Day 23 Fly to Istanbul from Izmir
Day 24 Explore Istanbul
Day 25 Explore Istanbul
Day 26 Fly back to Kabul

Thanks!

Damn! forgot to ask the important questions:

What do you think of the Lycian way segments chosen? Should I look into a few other segments for a little more diversity?

I am planning to do the Lycian way from Antalya - reverse direction. Would that be a problem in anyway?

I have chosen the segments on the way that are manageable in a day. Please correct me if I am wrong here.

Do the segments where I plan to take a bus look realistic? Specifically, is it easy to take a bus from Karaoz to Myra? Cayagiz to Kas?

Is there a direct transport from Bodrum to Selcuk?

Is my budget of 2500 USD realistic for the above itinerary? This is excluding the flight tickets but includes for scuba diving open water.

Thanks!

I'll leave the Lycian part to someone like Hobbit who lives near Kaş and can advise you best for that(he is also good to know for diving too!).I'm just going to pick holes in the rest of it LOL!Hopefully I can gain you a little extra time for Istanbul too.
You can knock a day off both Antalya and Olympos to use better elsewhere(Istanbul?)
Why go from Kaş to Bodrum?Nothing there worth it for the detour-bit pricey too.Go from Kaş direct to Pamukkale and then from there to Selçuk.Maybe fit in Aphrodisias whilst at Pamukkale too,very special site.If time and money allow perhaps also fit in a day or two around Fethiye which has some nice places to see.
This would free up 2 or 3 days for you to use either to see extra places or to extend the Istanbul section.Budgetwise yes,you should have enough even allowing for your O.W.C.
Hobbit!all yours........

Thanks for replying Sarikanarya. Must add, great job compiling all the tour reports. Very resourceful. Many thanks for that.

About the itinerary:

I placed a buffer day at Antalya for river rafting at Bridge canyon - but was undecided about it. so left it as a buffer day. I'll add this to Istanbul should this go against the plan.

Yes, i could knock off a day from Olympos and add that to Fethiye. I am a bit concerned about rushing from place to place. It's a holiday after all and I wanna be able to wake up late on the no-hike days at least :) Also, I read in one of the threads here that Olympos would require at least two days to explore. Is that true?

Isn't the route from Kas to Selcuk/pamukkale long? I was taking the detour to Bodrum to avoid a really long journey. But I guess, it would make little difference anyway. Aphrodisias is a bit out of the way, no? I thought I could accommodate it when I do Cappadocia - next trip some time soon - I dunno, now that you mention it's doable.... gonna look into it now... But yes, I think I'll go from Kas to fathiye - spend two days in and around fethiye/oludeniz and then move on to Selcuk. Thanks for the suggestion - i was in two minds about it.

Although, I am working on an itinerary for reference, it's going to have to be flexible - especially, if I like a place, I am the sorts to extend the stay there by a day or so - and vice versa - so if you think there are other places along the planned route, say that are more suited for an adventure, please do mention it... especially, if you think there are other - may be better - places to experience local life, culture or more opportunities to come in contact with the local people...

A few other queries about the lycian way and diving:

any suggestions for a dive centre to do my OWC?
Do I need carry a tent or will there be accommodation at the pit stops planned? What about the light house at Gelidonya - any pensions there? #wishful.. really would like to travel as light as possible...

rajiv

Ah,okay didn't know you had an extra thing planned for Antalya.If it doesn't happen then you can use the day elsewhere.
Kaş to Denizli(for Pamukkale)is around 7 hours allowing for bus changes and approx 5 hours from Fethiye so not so very far.Both routes nice and scenic too,not boring.
I think you have got Aphrodisias mixed up with another place.It is close to Pamukkale,approx 1½ hours away that's all and there are day tours from Pamukkale if you want.
I understand your idea of a loose itinery-and love it!Some people plan every day to the last second with no chance(or intention) of changing anything :(
You can find good clean family run pension accomodation in all the places you mention.It will be early enough in the season that you won't need to book either,you can just wash up on doorsteps and be sure of finding a bed.This flexibility is good for your plan too.B&B's and pensions here almost always include a good open buffet breakfast in the price so that will help your budget along.
For help with the diving question wait until Hobbittr comes along.Not only does he live in Kaş(which is probably THE best diving area in Turkey)he is an experienced diver himself and will be able to recommend a safe,reliable company for you to use.He usually checks in here most days so hopefully in the morning he'll reply to you.
In the meantime you could go onto his profile page and read up some of his previous posts and links
on the area.
Glad you like the trip review sticky,seemed like good idea to me too :)

Doesn't the PADI Open Water Diver course take about 5 days?

Thanks again sarikanarya - i checked on Aphrodisias again - I think it's possible to tie that in with Pammukkale. And glad to know about the accommodation too. Thanks. rest, i'll just wait till Hobbit has a look - i did read several of his posts too when figuring out the itinerary.

DavidM1: yes, it does. That's why I will be staying at Kas for 6 nights... hoping to complete it there!

Possibly not a good idea to go diving and paragliding on the same day?

Hi DavidM1:

i had scheduled it to coincide with the pool sessions early on - which won't take more than half a day - but now that I will be going to Oludeniz, I will do the paragliding there :) thanks for pointing it out... it's a mad thing to plan it that way i realise.. was a bit greedy.. anyway the itinerary looks now like this:

Day 1 - 4 Antalya with side trips to Perge, Aspendos & Bridge Canyon
Day 5, 6 Olympos (will hike Mt. Tahtali, Cirali & Chimera)
Day 7 Hike to Adrasan
Day 8 Hike to Gelidonya - camp at the lighthouse
Day 9 Hike to Karaoz
Day 10 Transfer to Myra
Day 11 Hike Myra to Cayagiz
Day 12 - 18 Kas (including OWC, day trips to Patara & Xanthos if possible, hike to cukurbag)
Day 19 Fethiye & Oludeniz
Day 20 - 22 selcuk / ephes / pammukkale / aphrodisias
Day 23 - 25 Explore Istanbul
Day 26 Fly back to Kabul

really looking forward to some comments on the lycian way..

Thanks.

Hi atasal:

You just brought in so much clarity to my idea of the lycian way! - Thanks. Although, i aint gonna set my itinerary in stone - many times i have just landed in a country and gone with the flow of things there... but i plan to hike this long a distance for the first time... so planning a little and with all the foreign names, its not been easy organizing it all...

I have revised the plan based on your suggestions and kinda like it better - thanks.

But, do you think I will need to carry a tent? i wanna travel light - not particularly athletic! guess, sleeping bags would do?

thanks for the heads up about food availability on the adrasan - karaoz leg. I couldnt find any details about the pirates harbour in karaoz. Do you have a link by any chance?

How is the hike from Myra to Cayagiz?

I moved Patara and Xanthos out of Kas plan. But since I want to do my OWC there, I have to spend five days minimum. Any suggestions for activities in Kas - apart from a sea kayak to Kekova / simena?

Also, will it be a problem in terms of route navigability doing the hike reverse, from Antalya as opposed to from Fethiye? I don't have a GPS...

Any suggestions for a dive centre in Kas to do OWC?

Day 1 - 4 Antalya
Day 5 Travel to Mt. Tahtali via Tekirova - take the cable car to Tahtali and hike down to Beycik
Day 6 Hike Beycik to Olympos through Cirali
Day 7 Hike Olympos to Adrasan - after visiting the ruins at Olympos
Day 8 Hike Adrasan to Karaoz - via Gelidonya. Camp at
Day 9 Travel to Myra and then to Kale / Cayagiz
Day 10 - 15 Kas
Day 16 Dolmus to Akbel, hike to Patara / Gelemis
Day 17 Dolmus to Xanthos and then to Faralya
Day 18 Hike Faralya to Ovacik, through Oludeniz
Day 19 Oludeniz for half day & travel to Selcuk
Day 20 Ephesus
Day 21 Pammukkale Aphrodisias travel to Istanbul
Day 22 - 25 Istanbul

Cheers

Good that you're keeping your schedule open and adaptable. Your $100/day budget should be very sufficient for a backpacker/camper/hiker even if that diving tour is likely to be a budget buster. You seem certain to dive. I presume you do know that the marine life is underwhelming compared to say the Florida Keys or the Great Barrier Reef. The sunken city of Kekova is unfortunately now off limits to divers as far too many were taking souvenirs. The water is of course crystal clear even if may well be on the cool side in April/May.

Your day 21, Pammukkale Aphrodisias travel to Istanbul sounds difficult. By public transport Aphrodisias is a number of busses away from Pammukale and I expect at least two busses from Dinizli where I presume you will get a bus to Istanbul.

I'd call costs in Istanbul similar to a central US city. With no transfers and a gigantic city, public transport costs can accumulate quickly and entry fees aren't the cheapest. Food costs near the major tourist attractions are the highest but the quality is no better and sometimes even worse than in the "working" areas of the city.

I highly recommend paragliding at Ölüdeniz! Even the drive up the mountain is a great experience.

Hi swampeastmike,

Thanks for the suggestions. I have heard about the underwhelming marine life in the meditteranean.. but i don't get that many long vacations and may not be able to do it for a while. i discovered scuba last time around and totally fell in love with it... so was planning to do the owc... but i have heard several people say the same about diving in the meditteranean - so i kept the options open (for budgeting purposes) but now am increasingly thinking of just doing a couple of dives and doing the owc elsewhere - don't know what my impulses would say when am actually in kas -

but if i free up a few days from kas - then i could hike lots more or spend more time in istanbul - and experience turkey much more - so its positive either way - and i feel i dont need to plan beyond Kas.. as i would have properly settled down by then... that's why i just placed Pammukkale & Aphrodisias the same day - thought i'll leave it to the moment i have to make the choice...

i defintly plan to paraglide - but was undecided between kas and oludeniz - thought i'll leave it to the time i actually have to make the choice again - thanks for the recommendation - influences my choice a great deal...

all in all - seems like an awesome place to visit - as any new place is - but there's something satisfying even talking and planning about it - especially the hike... some of the trip reports i read were AWESOME.. cant wait for it all to begin now..

thanks for all the recommendations and help orienting me to turkey... cheers!

damn! re-read my post and realized i just spoke my thoughts aloud and raved with no direction - i can't edit it now - sorry for the incoherence!

Hı rred

I dont know ıf you need 4 days ın Antalya - there,s a tour company that offers Perge Aspendos (and Sıde) day trıp for 45 euros. Good value apart from the drınks at lunch. Theres Termelessos? north of Antalya but otherwıse the museum ıs worth a couple of hours and you can explore the old cıty ın less than half a day. Can gıve you an extra day on your trıp.

Hi rred

No if you follow the revised programme you should not need a tent - a sleeping bag will give you flexibility and warmth if the accommodation lacks luxuries!
Pirates Harbour is called Korsan Koyu and is on the tractor path out of Karaoz on the way to the lighthouse or back as in your case. It is the only beach that is accessible on that east side of the large bay.

You ask
1. "How is the hike from Myra to Cayagiz?" Not particularly exciting from my point of view as it is now too built up however the tombs at Myra are amazing and on the way to Cayagiz there are hot and cold water springs so you can have a soak!

2."Any suggestions for activities in Kas - apart from a sea kayak to Kekova"
Kas is a great place to hang out - walks around the bay or up the pennisular, a visit to the theatre. Don't miss the underground cisterns, look out for the rock tombs not just the one in the middle of the road. Good food,nice places to drink, try to find the Hidden Garden. Walk up to Phellos or down. Go canyoning, go mountain biking, go pargliding! Plenty to do

3."will it be a problem in terms of route navigability doing the hike reverse, from Antalya as opposed to from Fethiye"
No you will have to read your notes carefully. The route is marked both ways but from time to time you have to look for the markers carefully

The very sensitive ears of the Hobbit have been burning and now we know why, sarıkanarya has dropped our name again :-) We Hobbits live in Çukurbağ village on the Mediterranean (Lycian) Coast near Kaş. Travellers use the fountain (çeşme) next to our house to fill their water bottles all year long.

If you read all this you can say you have been the victim of a Hobbit braindropping...

NOTE there are two official holidays which happen during your stay in Turkey. Banks and other official places will be closed and some travel may be crowded, plan accordingly. On the 23rd of April is National Sovereignty & Children's Day and on the 19th of May is the Commemoration of Ataturk's Youth & Sports Day.

When you get to Kaş, go to Bougainville Travel and then to Dragoman . They are both very reputable and reliable adventure travel companies and are at the same time concerned about safety. I know Gökhan Türe, the owner of Dragoman and some of his staff and I know they have a good reputation but I have no personal experience diving or other activities with them.

You can ask at either Bougainville or Dragoman staff to please call Dave Crann or tell you how to contact and meet him. Dave is an old British SAS veteran and has spent more than 15 years walking the Lycian Trail, he can advise you about all you can do while staying in Kaş for the price of a cup of coffee!!

When you are at Bougainville, ask for Veske the paragliding team captain and pilot. He speaks pretty good English and is the gentlest and friendliest person I know in a nation of friendly people. I would not paraglide in Ölu Deniz, I have ridden with Veske many times and trust him without reservation. I do not consider Ölu Deniz a safe place to paraglide and Veske agrees. That being said; some people like Oludeniz, I am not one of them. It is one of the most "famous" and unfortunately also one of the most crowded. There are also many paragliders who land on the beach and there are frequent accidents from pilots who are not experienced.

If you plan your paragliding time right, you can fly before you dive and then do your dive course.

At Bougainville ask for Emre Çevikel or Fezz Dikici the chief instructors on the BT Dive Boat. I have known Emre for over 10 years and I worked with him for two years on the dive boat while I was a diver and dive guide. Take a good luck at the different instructors and boat crew on the dive team page. If you like what you see from this post, then contact Emre (bougainvilledivingkas (at) gmail.com) as far in advance as possible before you arrive to reserve your dive course during the time you will be in Kaş. They are having a special promotion for April and May which might interest you.

Activity/Hiking in Kayaköy (near Fethiye):
If you do go to Fethiye, go visit and stay in Kayaköy (Kaya Village) which was a mostly Greek village which was abandoned after the 1923 exchange of population between Greek Muslims and Turkish (Greek) Orthodox Christians. The village was never re-inhabited. Kayaköy was the inspiration for Birds Without Wings by Louis de Bernieres, the same author of Captain Corelli's Mandolin.

Dean and Ayşe Livesley arrange activities in and around the Kayaköy and Ölu Deniz area and sea kayaking. Ayse also teaches Turkish cuisine to travellers. Dean is also a co-author of these books about hiking the Lycian Way and Dave Crann helped him walk and write about the trail: Sunflower Plus Series - Turkish Coast: Antalya to Demre (Michael Bussmann, Gabriele Tröger, Brian and Eileen Anderson, Dean Livesley)

AND/OR you can go visit Mel at Mountain Lodge up near Tlos the ancient Lycian site. (You will need a scooter or rental car but worth the drive. Mel can arrange to meet you at a dolmus stop, call or email her and ask.) A nice "two for one" Mountain Lodge and Tlos and then stop off at Yakapark for an interesting lunch with ice cold water running water everywhere under where you sit in the shade of huge shade trees.

While in Kayaköy, walk up to the top toward the east and down a bit and you can see Ölu Deniz, then you can say you have seen it. There are less crowded and better places to have fun on the beach, Patara being one of them or Kaputaş close to Kaş. Patara is an ancient Lycian site and the largest sand beach on the Mediterranean Coast. You can walk for long distances there away from the beach cafe and find yourself quite alone. (Patara on Google Maps)

Kaputaş is a very nice and small sand beach between Kalkan and Kaş. (Kaputaş on Google Maps)

There are a lot of people who travel to or live in Fethiye and like it. It simply depends upon the type of traveller you decide yourself to be. These are my musings and there will be people on this forum who may even strongly disagree.
A Lonely Planet posting about Fethiye by Karlo (No. 12) - 13-Mar-2011:
AND:
A couple of articles written by John Laughland (The Old Groaner) who lives there:
The Old Groaner-Fleshfest - 05 July 2010
Please Turkey, put your foot down - December 6, 2010

Hi rred,
I dived with Barakuda and Dragoman in November when I did my OWC in Kas. I felt secure with their crews. I felt it was appropriate to be learning in an environment that I was not as likely to be damaging and the cost was very reasonable. The ancient shipwrecks with amphorae were a big attraction to me.

I first snorkelled while others dived off the German/Turkish boat Carpe Diem in Adrasan. The German divemaster had a good reputation with his returning clients.

The lighthouse at Gelidonya is a mixture of beauty and trash but I recommend it for the views and the trails and forest. The pirate's cove is towards Karaoz from Gelidonya; there's an obvious road down to the sea. No shelter at Gelidonya. There was a wooden platform under an olive tree with partial views of the sky and ocean.
The Lycian Way is easiest the direction you're going, wider and less rocky in the east. But it's all well worth exploring.

Hi atasal:

thanks again for the help. relieved about the tents :)

hobittr:

your braindroppings gave me a lot of information at least on three other threads before... glad you took your time out yet again to respond in great detail about the dive centres.... hopefully, our paths cross in cukurbag for a drink or two...

soldanella: thanks for replying. will check out barracuda and dragoman - encouraging to know you did your owc there... cheers