Sicko

I've just finished watching the Michael Moore 'doco' (yeah I know it's been out for a while).

What I really have to ask, is WHY do the American people put up with their health care system as it is. It was absolutely shocking. Australia, Europe, UK and Canada health system may not be perfect, but no one is turned away and allowed to die because they can't afford or qualify for insurance.

Why is healthcare not nationalised, if all other necessities of life, eg, education etc are. It's time Americans stopped being told what you need and look outside your country for examples of humanity.

What is the problem with the so called, Leader of the First World? The only thing they seem really to be the leaders in is war mongering. I feel sorry for those born in that country.

Far too much sympathy in your attack post oink. If you want to slate seppos and who doesn't quit beating around the bush and get on with it. The fake sympathy only confuses the gentle reader as a despicable heartless bitch oink why include it at all?

I knew I should have stopped reading at "Michael Moore"

The q

The quick answer is, the Bush Administration and the vested oligarchy that represents democracy American style.

Careful with Mr. Moore's take on everything. You don't believe everything you read or see do you?
it is amazing that people from thruout the world seek medical treatment in the finest facilities in the world here in the U.S. even though they have "free healthcare" in their own countries. Been alot of places and the quality of healthcare in the U.S. is second to none by a long shot.
Now that doesn't address the fact that doctors here charge good sums for their expertise they should considering the length of the educational process and what it costs . No one is turned away from healthcare in the U.S. for the inability to pay. Lots of socialist programs to pay for those who can't, even here.
Cascadebob's comments are clearly from someone who hasn't a clue to the politics of the U.S. Taking a shot at Bush has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare in the U.S. The president doesn't dictate such policy. It is done in the legislative branch.

US political culture = strong distrust of "big government" and pervasive belief that the private sector runs things better and more efficiently. There's your answer.

There are reasons to distrust big gov't and believe that the private sector runs things better and more efficiently. If the US gov't operated like a business we wouldn't have some of the issues we have today. The gov't wasn't created to be a nanny for every man woman and child. The US has become a nanny state and those of us that pay the bulk of the taxes are a little tired of paying the nanny.

Thank you for demonstrating my point, #7. You can go back to watching Fox News or listening to Rush Limbaugh, now.

I love these so called libertarian, anti-government types claiming private enterprise is more effective than "big government." What a joke! The U.S. economy couldn't function without the billions of taxpayer dollars that subsidize "private industry", often to the detriment of its citizens.

Start with gas prices where big oil gets billions in tax breaks while turning record profits. Or the agricultural sector where the family farmer has been driven off the land by corporate agri-business, with their fuel, seed, low cost loans, and chemcicals all subsidized by the federal government. The military-industrial complex has grown so that one can tell where Lockheed ends and the government begins.

" love these so called libertarian, anti-government types claiming private enterprise is more effective than "big government." What a joke!"

"Start with gas prices where big oil gets billions in tax breaks while turning record profits. Or the agricultural sector where the family farmer has been driven off the land by corporate agri-business, with their fuel, seed, low cost loans, and chemcicals all subsidized by the federal government."

Care to take a mullligan or are you doing to stick with that contradiction?

The record (including your tax return) speaks for itself.

I have not idea what that means.
Do you not see your contradiction there? Saying anti-big Gov't people are a joke and then proving your point by showing where federal government subsidies fcked things up?

The point is that the anti-government types bemoan government spending for such things as health care (subject of this thread), education, and social issues while gladly accepting massive corporate subsidies funded by taxpayer dollars given to for-profit internaional conglomerates. Better we call ourselves U.S.A. Inc.

Cascadebob- I pay enough taxes for welfare programs that you seem to really enjoy and socialized medicine is just another welfare program that will produce mediocre medicine in the long run for the multitudes that seek it. You will see a tiered system where those that have will be paying for getting better medical treatment from the better doctors and the hacks will be left to treat those that are in the government system.
Before you cast stories regarding my political leanings you may want to get to know me better. (you sreaming liberal!!!! I joke of course)

Ah bfsaltwater, easy m'friend. My comments are directed generally, not personally. And yes, my redneck friends call me a screaming liberal, but my leftist friends call me a gun-totin', cigar smokin' redneck at the same time . . . so much for labels.

And I don't categorically trust ANY government, American or otherwise. I do think some things are inherently people's rights and not to be privatized for profit (including health care, environmental protection, and, yes reasonalbe welfare for those that need it). This is the right and just use of government, and the wrong and disastrous use of private industry.

I haven't seen much evidence of the tiered health care system you decry. Actually, from the foreign nationals I know (and I'm married to one) I've seen just the opposite. Also, AARP, Newseek, and a number of national periodicals and organizations have printed many articles recently about Americans increasingly traveling overseas for medical procedures (major and minor) including those folks with comprehensive U.S. health care plans that don't pay for overseas care. They report that they go for two reasons, 1) cost (even the comprehensive plans have deductables, limits, and co-pays) and, 2) quality of health care (equipment, well prepared doctors, facilities, and health care staff). Even HMO's are starting to offer a split package that includes payment (at a lower rate) for overseas health care. If our medical system is so good, why are the insurance companies offering such a deal?

As for spending my tax dollars, let me pay for adequate, government backed, base-line health care for all citizens over funding the killing of innocent people and American GIs around the world anyday (but as you noted, I'm probably a screaming liberal on that point).

I can tell we'd have a spirited conversation over a couple of beers sometime (and I love robust discussion - keeps the mind allive).

Cbob- I wouldn't get too excited about backing the insurance industry if you are against the corporate machine that is the US. They will take the cheapest way out to make their profit. One of the biggest reasons our healthcare problems exist is based on the insurance industry.
I work as one of those "money grubbing doctors" that has to deal with the insurance industry daily. Unfortunately those folks think they know more medicine than I do and they never have physically seen the patient and they routinely dictate what is the 'appropriate' treatment without having ever laid a hand on the patient.
Health tourism has become huge and while some of it is quality care some of it is not. I have seen the problems with botched procedures that have occurred overseas from inadequately trained doctors for the sake of saving a few bux. That is not to say that we do not have issues with quality of care here. We DO!!!!!!!!
You would have to admit that we in the states have the highest quality doctors and faciltiies in the world across the board. We also have our share of hacks as every country does. Old joke: do you know what they call the guy who finishes last in his class in Med. school?????? ------- "Doctor".
Government has screwed up so much that it has gotten involved in that I fear for what it could do to medicine. Medicaid is already a shining example of a poorly managed system that is gov't run.
Doctors are leaving school hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt just to be a doctor. We have to be able to attract the best and brightest by making it possible for them to make a decent living. I have friends that are doctors in Dom. Rep. adn Costa Rica. These guys have to supplement their income by wandering into tourist bars and take blood pressures for a $2 tip in order to survive financially and support their families. They are gov't employees in socialist medicine system.
I agree that we'd probably have a great conversation over a few beers and cigars. I am having one myself this evening after seeing 48 patients today just to pay the mortgage in the good old USA. Peace.