get reid of AWA in WA mining industry

But Boxbech, Those F-18's can be noisy buggers,and what a day it is when you get the F-111's and the 707 in on the same day. ;-)

A bit of trivia Harry. The more moisture in the air, the louder they get. So on a bright clear day, not so loud, on a rainy day, loud enough to pop your eardrums...

$53 an hour may sound like alot of money to some people, but the reality is it's not. It's a flat rate that does away with Award and Agreement conditions such as Annual Leave, Sick Leave, Redundancy, Travel Allowances, Meal Allowances, Public Holidays, RDO's, many specific site allowances, location allowances, the list goes on.

The base rate under a union Agreement is anywhere between $23 and $28 an hour. When you take into consideration the amount of overtime someone like Bazza works plus all the allowances they would otherwise be entitled top under an Award or union Agreement the $53 stops looking like a lot of money.

At the end of the day, regardless of what anyone earns , whether it be $15 an hour or $115 an hour if they are entitled to certain things they should get them. Better in your pocket than the bosses.

You also need to consider that people in Bazza's position are spending their lives away from their wives (or husbands), partners and children. They spend 12 hours a day sometimes up to 28 days straight working in conditions that are filthy, dangerous, and very hot. They work in dusty conditions and i mean cement dust, nasty stuff. They work with or in the vicinity of dangerous chemaicals, paints and solvents, health hazards. Those are some of the non-tangible things that are compensated by the rate of pay.

Also, look at the itinerant nature of the industry he works in. Most people in Bazza's situation work from job to job. they don't work for the same employer for years on end. there may be periods of unemployment between finishing on one job and starting another. Also, the reality is most of these people may spend a couple of years working up North or wherever. For people in trades or labourers it's rarely a lifelong career.

I'm not even going to mention the problems people have because of the classification of their employment relationship with thier employer. Most banks and finance companies still live in the dark ages and won't look at anyone who is classed as a casual, even a "fulltime casual", an oxymoron if ever i heard one.. and a copout as well. Just another way for bosses to avoid their obligations. The new one is independant contractors. Lets make each employee a company and then they have to pay for their own Superannuation, Workers Comp and Public Liability insurance, etc, etc. What a joke.

Instead of deriding people like Bazza who are, in reality, not much better off than people working down here turn your anger towards people like Michael Chaney.

Michael Chaney head of the Business Council earn't the equivalent of $115,000 per week over the last six years. And he's been at the forefront of the promotion of Workchoices legislation introduced by Howard. He infamously once said "There is no place for fairness in the employment relationship" or something along those lines. eay to say when your're earning the equivalent of 145 time the average weekly wage.

Him and his conservative mates backed up by a conservative Government and a conservative media have long pulled the wool over the general public's eyes. They scream about Unions, they winge about safety net wage increases for ordinary people, they say if you get rid of AWA's the sky will fall in, what a joke.

It's all part of an orchestrated campaign to get rid of Unions. Unions are the last line of defence for ordnary you and i workers against these capitalist pigs. I tell you what, the way they've been talking about Unions, they're a spent force. If that is so why do they devote so much time and money on deriding Unions. It's because the reality is Unions are still strong, and still making a difference for ordinary you and I. And yes i am a proud Union member.

Look at the guy who sacked 28,000 bank workers to cut costs and at the same time took a golden handshake of tens of millions of dollars from, i think it was the Commonwealth Bank.

Who are the real criminals in this country.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>$53 an hour may sound like alot of money to some people, but the reality is it's not. It's a flat rate that does away with Award and Agreement conditions such as Annual Leave, Sick Leave, Redundancy, Travel Allowances, Meal Allowances, Public Holidays, RDO's, many specific site allowances, location allowances, the list goes on.

The base rate under a union Agreement is anywhere between $23 and $28 an hour. When you take into consideration the amount of overtime someone like Bazza works plus all the allowances they would otherwise be entitled top under an Award or union Agreement the $53 stops looking like a lot of money.<hr></blockquote>

When you take into consideration and add all your extras into $23 or $28 per hour you get $53 per hour. Jee Whiz, What a stretch. Amazing.

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>It's all part of an orchestrated campaign to get rid of Unions. Unions are the last line of defence for ordnary you and i workers against these capitalist pigs. I tell you what, the way they've been talking about Unions, they're a spent force. If that is so why do they devote so much time and money on deriding Unions. It's because the reality is Unions are still strong, and still making a difference for ordinary you and I. And yes i am a proud Union member.<hr></blockquote>
nah.

Eli @ 38 - yes it is partly a workplace culture issue, but the union members here are real throwbacks. I doubt they realise how puzzling their attitude is to new staff members who consider this a workplace with decent pay and conditions and good management. No wonder they say no thanks.

Anyway after some thought I’ve decided that unions are similar to radical feminists. They’re both past their use-by date. Radical feminists are ignored (at best) for two main reasons:

1. many of their original ideals are now law as well as a widely accepted part of western culture.
2. most women looked around at the men in their life and realised that not all of them were the enemy

Same in the working world. Entitlements to leave and minimum pay are enshrined in law as well as a widely accepted part of Australian culture and most people don’t see their employer as an adversary. Yet unions still do and as for Labor - Gillard illustrated her attitude amply by her recent comments.

And back to bazaa: I have no problem with his $53/hr. He’s a tradesman and in demand. If he decides against a lower-paying secure job in the city that offers all the benefits he mentioned, that’s his choice. I just hope he realised that the $53 rate replaced all those other things. His post makes it sound like that wasn’t the case.

Yeah. I can see that. I just fail to see what Workchoices has to do with unions. I guess that's what comes from being workplace law specialist.

In my case after Workchoices we were no longer required to meet with the union reps. I don't know if it was due to a change in the Collective Agreement which was in proces when the legislation came in and had to be re-negotiated, or a HEWRR requrement, or something else entirely. I was told it was Workchoices. I might ask if I see the boss becsaue I'm curious (I'm not acting in that position or area anymore).

It wouldn't be due to Workchoices directly.

for the record, banks are coming around to realising that not everyone has a long term permanent job...if you have a stable employment history for 3 years in the same industry/job type they will give you a loan...I know this because i just spent two hours with a mortgage broker trying to get a new loan organised when at present i don't have a job at all. There are also "low doc" loans which I believe you can apply for if you are a contractor with an ABN or self employed though not being relevant I didn't ask about the details.

Yes, I was working overseas for some time and got a normal loan off a normal bank with no tax returns and no payslips (and also no job at the time I applied for the loan).

"Low doc" loans are typically used by tradesmen, contractors with their own company, professional criminals and the like who "forget" to declare most of their income to the ATO and are therefore unable to come up with either tax returns or another plausible source of their income, but can demonstrate a steady cash flow through banking history. You pay about a 2% interest rate premium on "Low Doc" loans - avoid them if at all possible.

Even with a contract/casual job, you should be able to get a loan at the normal 0.5-0.7% off the standard variable rate which everyone gets if you can demonstrate an employment history - all the banks care about is being able to see regular pay deposits into your account. Particularly if the loan-to-valuation ratio is less than 80%, they don't really care who they give cash to.