NYTimes: Out From Behind a Camera at a Khmer Torture House

Article about the testimony by the Tuol Seng prison photographer against Duch

Interesting. Thanks for the link.

Thanks for posting, JB.

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<hr> “I’m just a photographer; I don’t know anything,” he said he told the newly arrived prisoners as he removed their blindfolds and adjusted the angles of their heads. But he knew, as they did not, that every one of them would be killed.<hr></blockquote>
I think it was funnier when Sgt Schultz said it.

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<hr>“I had my job, and I had to take care of my job,” he said in a recent interview. “Each of us had our own responsibilities. I wasn’t allowed to speak with prisoners.”<hr></blockquote>
So he was just following orders. What a reprehensible individual. And he will never be tried. This whole process is seriously flawed.

The pictures were very huanting for me to see, the expressions on their faces....

Foolsprogress, curious why you think he is reprehensible? Take photographs or be shot, that's an easy choice to make.

#5 - If that justifies his actions then pretty much every KR short of Pol Pot is innocent. They can all make that excuse. And in so far as a drafted line soldier might be able to make some version of that excuse, we're not talking about some grunt cadre here. He was a photographer at S-21 which makes him more comparable to a guard at Auschwitz than a simple soldier. Note that when the Vietnamese invaded and threw out the KR in 79, he fled with the KR, not from them. And now he is a successful local official in Anlong Veng, one of the last KR strongholds, which means he was ranking KR right to the bitter end, probably until 1998 when that group defected to the government en masse. This guy's no victim. He directly participated in the torture and execution of more than 14,000 people, many of them children and women. And he did his job well. And he stayed loyal to the group who did this for another 19 years. Screw him.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your thinking.

Fools nothing justifies his actions, yet history tells us that given similar circumstances the vast majority of us would act the same. Remember he was nine years old when "recruited" into the KR, sixteen when sent to China for photography school. I also agree Cambodia should have dealt with it's past about twenty five years ago.

Fools, I'm not sure how useful it is to condemn the photographer: if you think the KR were just some strange aberration that can be explained in terms of the evil nature of the individuals involved, it doesn't really mean anything. If you get a chance, try to read the memoirs of Albert Speers, Hitler's architect and personal friend: the impression he gives of the inner circle is not of a bunch of evil geniuses, but of fairly typical petit bourgeoise Germans, quite a few of whom found Hitler's obsession with the Jews slightly embarrassing. In fact, Speers mentions the Jews exactly twice in his memoirs: there's one tight little paragraph where he admits that a friend had been to Auschwitz and had been very shocked to see it. He advised Speers never, ever to go near the place, for his own sake. Speers, by the way, was responsible for arms production towards the end of the war, using slave labor from the camps to produce them.

Or closer to home, read The Gate. The author was a prisoner of Duch, the man now on trial, and formed quite a close relationship with him: he described Duch as an awkward, idealistic man with a strong sense of right and wrong. In fact, Duch worked quite hard to have him released and freed, rather than executed, because he was convinced that Bizot was innocent of being a CIA spy or any other such.

#3 Interesting comment but I wonder how well informed you are about the regime, a time when even the perpetrators were victims. Yes, literally a case of take pictures or be shot I think. (Actually more likely be bludgeoned to death rather than waste a bullet)

Is he any more culpable than the current Prime Minister of Cambodia? I would think not.

The other day, I read about a psychological experiment: ten people in a group are presented with two pieces of wood, one of which is 25% taller and larger than the other. Each person is asked in turn, in front of the others, which one is larger. In fact, the first nine people have been instructed to say that the small piece is larger. In almost every single case, the tenth person agrees with their judgement - the study showed that it wasn't so much that they lied to maintain harmony with the group, but that they actually SEE the smaller piece as bigger after hearing nine other people say so. That's with a simple issue regarding something right in front of your eyes, no punishments of anything for disagreeing: imagine what it's like when it's a complicated moral issue, and someone will clobber you with a spade on the back of your head if you get the answer wrong. Group dynamics are a funny thing.

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<hr>So he was just following orders. What a reprehensible individual. And he will never be tried. This whole process is seriously flawed. <hr></blockquote>

Tried for what? Taking photos? Nhem En, the photographer, was involved in the Khmer Rouge when he was very young, and was somewhat of a golden boy for them, which is why he got sent to China to train. He wasn't a guard, and wasn't allowed to touch the prisoners.Who else do you want tried, the cleaners?

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<hr>If you get a chance, try to read the memoirs of Albert Speers, Hitler's architect and personal friend: the impression he gives of the inner circle is not of a bunch of evil geniuses, but of fairly typical petit bourgeoise Germans, <hr></blockquote>

JB2-Speers' diaries are revelatory arent they? He was the only Nazi leader to accept responsibility yet personally even through all those years of psychic self-torture in Spandau he was never able to really recognise or understand his own guilt.
Always Hannah Arendts concept of "the banality of evil" comes to mind. So important to understand such behaviour,as you say, as the mass social and psychological phenomena it is and not just some aberration of evil individuals.
Where does justice come into it though? In the South African Truth and Reconciliation process the distress of the families who lost loved ones who gave over-whelming evidence against individuals who perpetuated the crimes only to watch them admit it and go free.....phew, that must be a bitter pill to swallow.

I guess the US Congress should be tried for the deaths in Iraq, they approve the money for the war machine.

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<hr>Where does justice come into it though? In the South African Truth and Reconciliation process the distress of the families who lost loved ones who gave over-whelming evidence against individuals who perpetuated the crimes only to watch them admit it and go free.....phew, that must be a bitter pill to swallow.<hr></blockquote>

Well, maybe, at the personal level - but it would be hard to argue that South Africa as whole would be much better off if a lot more people had been punished. Personally, I think there's a good argument for punishing a group of top leaders, not so much because of their personal culpability as because they are living symbols of a regime and ideology, and then pardoning, or at least not taking further action against, everyone below a certain line. For me, Duch would probably be above the line; the photographer certainly wouldn't. Probably heaps of other people who did worse things, it's just people notice him because of what he created.

I actually felt a bit sorry for Speers and admired him slightly for his admittedly flawed attempts at self-reflection and honesty - but I still think it was quite right that he did his twenty years.

Tim, if you punish congress, then what do you do about the people who voted them in, knowing what their policies were? That's the trouble with a democracy: it's harder for people to say that they aren't responsible for what their government does.

Re#15
Yes I agree with you regards the photographer and Speers was certainly a pitiable figure during his imprisonment.

Re South Africa: only one leader has ever been convicted (Vlok) of apartheid-era crimes and he recently received a suspended sentence.(Botha served a short sentence for the relatively minor offense of refusing to appear before the commission too I believe)

Its a huge discussion I know but generally I just think in most countries the political will to deal with war crimes, crimes against humanity etc isnt really strong enough .Nor is the will strong enough internationally-UN and so forth-except when it suits the major security council members. If there was a truely neutral and comprehensive approach that was manifest in action and not just International Law that can so easily be ignored too many major powers would themselves be subject to charges.

Anyway, one can only hope that the Cambodian people get some measure of justice.